Interview Retarded Oblivion fan interview

[Volourn]

"Also, I would like to announce that I'm working on the end of the year article, and I'm pretty sure that it's kinda offensive, so consider it a warning. Don't like my style, don't click on that link."

Don't forget to bash BIo for releasing ZERO games this year! :shock:

 

[dojoteef]

Don't forget to bash BIo for releasing ZERO games this year! :shock:

You must mean thank Bioware; this is the Codex afterall. :mrgreen:

 

[Volourn]

"You must mean thank Bioware; this is the Codex afterall."

Nah. The Codex felt empty without the Codex being able to bash a new Bioware "masterpieceofshit". That's why other targets like Bethesda were ripped a part this year more than usual.

 

[Vault Dweller]

"Also, I would like to announce that I'm working on the end of the year article, and I'm pretty sure that it's kinda offensive, so consider it a warning. Don't like my style, don't click on that link."

Don't forget to bash BIo for releasing ZERO games this year! :shock:

The fact that they've got the developer of the year award for releasing 0 games and other Bio related stuff is already covered.

 

[Kamaz]

Pardon me, if I have misundarstood the information, English is not my first language, and correct me where necessary.

The population in Cyrodiil, the assumed main setting for Oblivion, is said to be ‘thousands upon thousands'. With such a small NPC bank, how do you plan on emulating this massive crowd?

With the number of NPCs we have (around 1000), it's dense. It's an insane number for us to pull off, so I can't say we're at-all concerned with the number of characters in the game. If anything, it's too many, but we always do that. All of our lore is obviously written as ideal, to say X province or city has so many people, but you can't always actually pull that off on screen, or even store it, so you try to create a scale that feels good in game, that plays well and is fun. So the scale of the terrain and the number of NPCs is always geared to the gameplay more than the lore saying how big or small something is.

So, that means Oblivion is going to have around 1000 NPCs. I havent done any statistical calculations on how much other cRPGs had NPCs, but I guess not many games have such great number. Even 20 is very much, not speaking about 100. This brings on some worries about perfomance issues, specially the RAM related questions. Plus, I would ask them about exterior of those NPC - it is much more risky to play around with many characters, if you have pretty limited count of really diverse models. This question intrigues me to check this game at least to see how they handle this all and how the city looks. I was allways kinda frustrated seeing not too much characters in cities, Outcast was only game I felt pretty natural. Might be oblivion could bring the same experience?

Could you give the fans any information regarding the behavior of water--eg. flowing and making puddles--and if it will be able to be above or below "0" level?

Sorry, can't talk about that yet. Yes, there will be water, and yes, it will look and behave great.

Oh, the famous question.
The thing is, it might be not so interesting if I werent interested in game development issues. The author, as you can see from the first part of the question, is trying to learn if Oblivions physics will allow water to flow - then it would great step forwards. Knowing Bethesda's passion for water (Morrowind's water was one of the coolest and most revolutionary for cRPGs features when the game came out), so it might be reasonable to assume that developers are going further the same path and preparing some surprise concerning water. Maybe water will actually flow? IMO, it would be really hard to deal with and I personally think they wont, though, they said they can not talk about it yet - there could be something behind then. They just could have said -" no, no waterflows, yes, some puddles if we ever think its needed". Who knows, but still, its interesting thing - we all know Oblivion is going to use advanced physics, but how much advanced?

Will Oblivion return to the location based music concept apparent in earlier installments of the TES series, with dedicated music for dungeons and different aspects like timing and weather?

More on that later, but it's bigger and better than we've ever done. Really excited about the music and I can't say a word yet.

This question is kinda uninteresting to me, since I havent played none of their games to remember music and its appearence. Though, I would say it would be pretty important design decision adjusting music to overall situation at specific moment. That would add some cinematographic effect to game, if properly done. And again, if I knew such feature is going to be in the game, I would be interested to see how it works and how it is done. Plus, different music for every location is - imo - must be in every cRPG(actually any game) by now allready.

Are there plans on utilizing the entire viewable map area this time, including the water areas as places of interest and underwater quests?

I'm not sure what this question is asking. The entire map we create for the game is open to you, just as it was in the previous games. We do have a “border” to it, that you can't go out of, but that's obvious. In terms of water, we do limit it actually. We find that spending a long time underwater isn't really that fun. Plus combat underwater always has odd issues. So we do use underwater stuff, but we intentionally keep it to short exploration things, such as finding a new area or item, and keep the amount of underwater combat down.

Must admit, this question seemed the strange one to me, when I said some posts ago that there are some.. strange questions. Particulary because I have heard that Morrowind allready had some underwater quests and action, so I thought "wtf?". But, thankfully, developers extended the answer, so I learned they try to minimze underwater combat which means they found it unapropriate, plus, from their answer I can gather there are going to be just simple underwater quests - like getting an item and not, like, freeing some underwater village from some underwater monsters, which would be kinda cool.

Those of us who are explorers wish to know how you are planning on implementing a border for the map [province]. Will this be similar to Morrowind's infinite ocean?

There is a “border” – you basically hit an invisible wall and the game says “you've reached the edge – go back”. So no, there is not infinite water. Cyrodiil is surrounded by the other provinces, so we have to do a border. As much as possible, we try to make this a physical barrier, like a mountain, but that just looks odd sometimes, so we go with the game message. But because you can now see so far, we've had to build miles of landscape into these provinces, because even though you cannot “go” there, you can stand on a mountain and “see” there.

Interesting stuff. Mainly because I am allways interested to see how developers handle borders in their games, especially in cRPGs. Infinite ocean was kinda nice solution for an isle, but if being surrounded by other provinces where you could go...considering "open endness" is feature Morrowind wants to excel in, this question is particulary interesting. Like in Gothic and Gothic2 I just loved to search for End of THe WOrld, I climbed highest mountains and finally got where I wanted and, thus, I find the Gothics world border as one of the best. I see that they have come to message that makes you turn back. But they also mnentioned that - where possible - natural barriers like mountains are created, seeing they want to balance all that stuff, so it looks natural, I could say this seems very good border handling. Interesting feature is landscape you can see but cannot walk to. I think its good solution.

I understand, you might cry that I have exaggerated everything and made an elephant from nothing. But, hey, my point was to prove questions arent retarded. To be honest, those are very interesting questions for gamedeveloper, because you can give a look behind scene and see how it is done. Maybe its not interesting for everyone, but I found it rather exciting. And even then, those questions are interesting for those who literally explored all the Morrowind and faced every single engine's feature personally. Call them "specific" since you find those questions pointless and un-interesting to you, but, dear man, its not retarded.

 

[The Exar]

Here is my contribution to the tenth page of this thread. Just look how it started...

 

[Vault Dweller]

Pardon me, if I have misundarstood the information, English is not my first language, and correct me where necessary.

No problem. I asked you to comment to understand your position better, not to flame you.

The population in Cyrodiil, the assumed main setting for Oblivion, is said to be ‘thousands upon thousands'. With such a small NPC bank, how do you plan on emulating this massive crowd?

So, that means Oblivion is going to have around 1000 NPCs. I havent done any statistical calculations on how much other cRPGs had NPCs, but I guess not many games have such great number. Even 20 is very much, not speaking about 100. This brings on some worries about perfomance issues, specially the RAM related questions.

Did you expect 20 or even 100 NPCs? I'm not sure how many NPCs DF and MW had, but I assume about 20-40 per town, depending on a town. At 10-15 locations you are already at 200-600 NPCs. Oblivion takes it a bit further. So, what are you surprised at?

Now, the RAM comment. Surely you realize that it's too early to worry about these things, and if there is one thing we can assume is that it would take a top of the line computer to run the game at its full glory regardless of the number of NPCs.

Finally, the question itself was idiotic because what an answer to this question would be like? "Ah, NPCs constantly run around simulating thousands-upon-thousands population"? Anyone with brains knows that games don't feature 1:1 population model because it would be a retarded and pointless waste of resources. Therefore, the question is stupid.

Plus, I would ask them about exterior of those NPC - it is much more risky to play around with many characters, if you have pretty limited count of really diverse models.

Now that would have been a better question

Could you give the fans any information regarding the behavior of water--eg. flowing and making puddles--and if it will be able to be above or below "0" level?

Oh, the famous question.
The thing is, it might be not so interesting if I werent interested in game development issues. The author, as you can see from the first part of the question, is trying to learn if Oblivions physics will allow water to flow - then it would great step forwards.

First, the question is phrased in the most idiotic manner. People who have defended it here came up with much better, less stupid, almost making sense variants.

Second, why flowing water would be a great step forward in an RPG? Anyway, it's one of those absolutley pointless questions even if phrased properly. The other great questions would be: would I be able to dig tunnels from one city to another, would I able to add realistic flying effects and fly really, really fast liek Neo in teh Matrix!!!11, etc

Will Oblivion return to the location based music concept apparent in earlier installments of the TES series, with dedicated music for dungeons and different aspects like timing and weather?

This question is kinda uninteresting to me...

No shit.

Are there plans on utilizing the entire viewable map area this time, including the water areas as places of interest and underwater quests?

Must admit, this question seemed the strange one to me...

Not only to you. Todd didn't have a clue either. His "just like in previous games" remark says it all.

Those of us who are explorers wish to know how you are planning on implementing a border for the map [province]. Will this be similar to Morrowind's infinite ocean?

Interesting stuff.

Indeed. I'm kinda surprised and upset that they are implementing a border. I wanted to travel to other countries and continents, and if the digging feature is in, I wanted to dig a tunnel connecting the opposite sides and charge people money for using it.

Infinite ocean was kinda nice solution for an isle, but if being surrounded by other provinces where you could go...considering "open endness" is feature Morrowind wants to excel in, this question is particulary interesting.

Well, I'm glad that you have a hobby and you are trying to hit the border in every game you play and then take screenshots, but who really cares about that. Did anyone doubt that there will be a border? No. Does it matter whether it's going to be an infinite plain, a wall, mountains, or a big "under construction" sign? No.

But, hey, my point was to prove questions arent retarded.

You failed so far. Play again?

 

[Seven]

I don't know when the RPG Codex became the "Juvenile Codex" but that's what it's becoming right now.

Look, don't judge people based on their post counts. Just because they don't post much doesn't mean they aren't avid readers of the website, and it doesn't make their opinions any less valuable than Volourn and his 3000+ posts, the majority of which consist purely of 'r00fles' and 'why do you lie'. I'm sorry, but that's the truth.

It's like visitors can't even express their opinion or ask a simple question here without a couple of bastards engaging them in some childish repartee, and whenever somebody has an opinion that differs even slightly from Vault Dweller's, he and some of the rowdier members jump up in support of his opinion, not by backing up what he says but by labelling the other guy a 'dumbfuck', 'moron', 'retard', or pinning him with any number of other irrelevent facts, like calling him a newbie for his low postcount (as if that makes his argument any less valid) or whatever.

VD could have mentioned subtly his opinion about the fan interview by quoting the "will there be puddles?" question and leaving it at that but instead he had to go and call the interview outright 'retarded', and berate the fanbase. Way to go, slick. Every time he makes a post like that, the only result is 9+ pages worth of flames against HIM rather than a discussion about the actual SUBJECT.

You might accuse me of having being an attention whore, especially with the 2 posts that I made in GD that are now in Retardo Land, and if you did, you would be right. It was stupid of me, and I apologise. So, compared to the post that VD made in the news, it really isn't all that different because he only managed in bringing attention to himself rather than to Oblivion or the fan interview.

So remember (and this apply to you also, VD), this isn't the Vault Dweller Codex. We're here to discuss (or debate) RPGs so starting a thread this deliberate to bring attention to yourself knowing full well that you would unsettle a number of our readers ISN'T the kind of thing the RPG Codex is about. Yes, we're about truth, and we're about the opinions of gamers, but we're not about juvenile bullshit like this.

Oh, and if you guys are going to argue with other people, please use solid arguments instead of contemptuous nonsense like "You are a newbie so my opinion is right and you are wrong NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA I DONT HAVE TO LISTEN TO YOU". Mmm-kay?

VD, if people disagree with you - there are times that you just have to agree to disagree. You can't force your opinion down people's throats. It is petulant to resort to calling somebody a 'dumbfuck' for liking Oblivion or finding merit in those fan questions.

A day late, and a dollar short.

This is as polite as I can put it.

 

[Shagnak]

Second, why flowing water would be a great step forward in an RPG? Anyway, it's one of those absolutley pointless questions even if phrased properly.

Reason : IMMERSION (no pun intended :wink. The more realistic we can have things, the better, surely?
And cool water traps and stuff that have been mentioned by at least a couple of people above. Surely no more obscure and or less interesting than the "digging" you mention? Imagine digging a tunnel down to an enemy lair, and then flooding the bastards with water from a diverted stream. Now that would be fun!

Well, I'm glad that you have a hobby and you are trying to hit the border in every game you play and then take screenshots, but who really cares about that. Did anyone doubt that there will be a border? No. Does it matter whether it's going to be an infinite plain, a wall, mountains, or a big "under construction" sign? No.

Yes, it does...once again...IMMERSION.
I know you were exaggerating here, but I would prefer some "infinite ocean" to a sign saying "under construction". Once again, surely anything that isnt jarringly out of place would be best.
And the sarcastic response to the poster probably wasnt necessary, but hey, I guess thats par for the course now.

But, hey, my point was to prove questions arent retarded.

You failed so far. Play again?

:wink:

In conclusion, you are partially right, a lot of the questions were crap. But then stretching it to make it sound like there was NO reason for certain ones is a bit much IMHO.
He failed so far? A matter of opinion that I don't share (its more a case of "some of the questions arent retarded if you could be bothered thinking about them", but I guess thats not witty sounding or anything so let it slide, eh?).

By the way, do we have any better questions, and is there any way to "get them to the right people"?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Reason : IMMERSION (no pun intended :wink. The more realistic we can have things, the better, surely?

You are talking to the guy who likes Spiderweb games a LOT. In other words: gameplay makes games, not realistic water puddles and vibrating bow strings.

And cool water traps and stuff that have been mentioned by at least a couple of people above.

Cool water traps are pointless in a setting that comes with a waterbreath/waterwalking spell and "I'll just keep restoring my health and fuck your stupid water trap" game mechanics.

Surely no more obscure and or less interesting than the "digging" you mention?

The digging example was sarcasm.

Imagine digging a tunnel down to an enemy lair, and then flooding the bastards with water from a diverted stream. Now that would be fun!

Yeah, because "you are the only one in the gameworld who can cast waterbreath and gulp potions"=immershun!!!! Not to mention other aspects of this idea.

I know you were exaggerating here, but I would prefer some "infinite ocean" to a sign saying "under construction".

Obviously. Like I said, this issue is so trivial, that it's not worth wasting a question on. It's like asking if Oblivion will feature a SAVE button and how big this button will be.

And the sarcastic response to the poster probably wasnt necessary, but hey, I guess thats par for the course now.

He asked for it with his "I'm the famous explorer of the barriers" speech.

But then stretching it to make it sound like there was NO reason for certain ones is a bit much IMHO.

I've never said that every question was stupid. Most of them were though.

He failed so far? A matter of opinion that I don't share

Kamaz stated that his goal was "to prove questions arent retarded". Let's see, he wanders off in his first point, wanders way off in his second point talking about flow of water instead of levels or puddles, admits that question 3 is uninteresting and question 4 is a strange one, and makes a weak argument that question 5 about the borders is really interesting because searching for end of the world is teh fun.

By the way, do we have any better questions, and is there any way to "get them to the right people"?

Well, MrSmiley said that he can answer some questions, so ask away.
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5903

 

[Sol Invictus]

It's all a matter of opinion isn't it VD? A question isn't 'retarded' if it's meaningful to someone but not meaningful to you. A modder's question about whether Half Life 2's source engine supports magnetism might seem 'retarded' to you because you may not like first person shooters and you may not care for game mechanics that don't involve RPGs but it certainly isn't a 'retarded' question just because you think so.

If you felt that the questions had nothing to do with RPGs, or that they were retarded, why did you even bother to post it?

 

[Shagnak]

@ Vault Dweller:

OKay, thanks. Quick reply! Do you live on this board??

I'll guess we'll have to agree to disagree about some things. But you are right, there are more important things than "quivering bow strings" etc etc, and Spiderweb games do have a lot of them.

By the way, not meaning to be antagonistic up there. I have no probs with your news posting style (its a refreshing change from the sycophants elsewhere), or with Ex's supposed "flip-flops" (people base opinion on current exprience, right?). I just think that maybe...just maybe...we can have discussions without degenerating to flame-tastic wars and stuff.

But then maybe Im unreasonably reasonable, right? :wink:

 

[Sol Invictus]

There is no such thing as a reasonable argument with Vault Dweller. His only response is to say 'fuck you' in a variety of ways while keeping it just as rude.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It's all a matter of opinion isn't it VD?

Most things are.

A question isn't 'retarded' if it's meaningful to someone but not meaningful to you.

I explained many times my position on questions, discussing a few in my discussion with Kamaz. Learn to read, Exit.

If you felt that the questions had nothing to do with RPGs, or that they were retarded, why did you even bother to post it?

You are getting boring, Rex. Can you come up with an original argument instead of repeating other people's positions (i.e. it's not VD's Codex, a question is important to someone, why did you post it if you think it's crap, etc).

Just for the record, I posted it because it has something to do with PC CRPG. I posted it for the same reason I post idiotic reviews and games hype - it's what I was "hired" to do.

There is no such thing as a reasonable argument with Vault Dweller. His only response is to say 'fuck you' in a variety of ways while keeping it just as rude.

Really? I replied to almost everyone in this thread, insulting only those who insulted me, explaining my reasons and my position to everyone who asked. What's with the bullshit, Rex?

 

[Jinxed]

Oh, and if you guys are going to argue with other people, please use solid arguments instead of contemptuous nonsense like "You are a newbie so my opinion is right and you are wrong NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA I DONT HAVE TO LISTEN TO YOU". Mmm-kay?

Not when they are talking about the hidden motives and seem to spill out inside information about the oldie posters enganging in a flame war.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I just think that maybe...just maybe...we can have discussions without degenerating to flame-tastic wars and stuff.

But then maybe Im unreasonably reasonable, right? :wink:

If your suggestion/criticism is aimed at me, I rarely start anything, and keep things civil as long as people I talk to do the same. If you feel that I unjustly flamed someone, post a link or a quote to illustrate your point.

 

[Seven]

It's all a matter of opinion isn't it VD? A question isn't 'retarded' if it's meaningful to someone but not meaningful to you. A modder's question about whether Half Life 2's source engine supports magnetism might seem 'retarded' to you because you may not like first person shooters and you may not care for game mechanics that don't involve RPGs but it certainly isn't a 'retarded' question just because you think so.

If you felt that the questions had nothing to do with RPGs, or that they were retarded, why did you even bother to post it?

This wasn't in the context of a modder asking a question, and if you had taken the time to read the questions you have noticed that the interviewer didn't even take the time to frame his/her questions in any context, so as a result they come off as not making sense; hence, we have several posters (including MrSmileyface) having to post several replies to justify the questions.
If you have to devote entire paragraphs to justify a question then that should be a clue that they were not framed in a sensical manner. This is why they come off as retarded. If you need further proof look to Kamaz's post regarded de-retarding the questions; any one who tries to reconcile these questions is commiting to an endeavor which is destined to fail. Unless of course, you're just trying to yank VD's chain (which wouldn't be too much of a surprise, but you could at least be honest about it, and drop of the guise of feigned indignation).

 

[Shagnak]

Okay, this is going back to flame-war city again

Any chance of 'freezing' this thread and having a "staff-only bunfight" section?

"Can't we all just get along?" SOB

 

[Sol Invictus]

What do you think, Seven? Of course I'm just yanking his chain.

What I do, I do out of love.

 

[Shagnak]

If your suggestion/criticism is aimed at me, I rarely start anything, and keep things civil as long as people I talk to do the same. If you feel that I unjustly flamed someone, post a link or a quote to illustrate your point.

Sorry VD, this was more of a general statement, though I don't think many of us are totally innocent.

Oops, that will probably offend everyone.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What do you think, Seven? Of course I'm just yanking his chain.

What I do, I do out of love.

*whistles "Can you feel the love tonight?"*

 

[Kamaz]

First question - [wont repeat it] -
What is so retard asking how much NPC can we expect in game and will there be crowds. Knowing Bethesda is into open-endness and "just-like-reality" it might be reasonable to verify how "realistic" crowds they plan. Seriously, its adequate question for Morrowind-like game where everyone is just floating around ya. That they gave answer 1000 just proves that nothing surprising, nothing exceptional, but why not ask?
Second question - THAT EVIL puddle thingy
*sighs* I have not programmed 3D game engine yet, so I cannot comment on how water is handled, but though I could immagine, its easy to bring "0 level" in and any water above this level is much harder to handle imo. Here comes the puddles - if we can have puddle, it means there is water above 0 level handled. I have not played around with Morrowind editor, but I immagine, there were no puddles possible in it, so for modders they might just be interested to learn if these fucking puddles are implemented. And how. God knows for what crazy reasons, but - baah - why its retarded then? Of course it adds no immersion Spiderweb does around, but, hey, I respect Morrowind for what it does - it gives pretty open-ended gameworld you can try to virtually live. Sure it sucks hard at this endavour, but without trying you will achive nothing. And there are people who like such 3D world they can wander around and some of them like making modds and they are very glad about every "just-like-in-reality" feature in game. Even if it is so simple as puddle.
To be honest, I think this question was asked about water in general and effects that could be applied to it. Paddles was just an example, though waterflow would be really great deal in graphical plane since there is no flowing water in computer games yet.
3d question. The one I said its uninteresting
Though having said its unintereting for me, I explained its because I havent played those games so could not compare. But I added about 2-3 sentences where I actually talked about ..wait, here is the quote -

Though, I would say it would be pretty important design decision adjusting music to overall situation at specific moment. That would add some cinematographic effect to game, if properly done. And again, if I knew such feature is going to be in the game, I would be interested to see how it works and how it is done. Plus, different music for every location is - imo - must be in every cRPG(actually any game) by now allready.

Unluckily, developers failed to respond otherwise their answer would be pretty valuable. We all know how music helps in immersion, well, do we?
Fourth q. The one about Big Puddle exploration
Well, ok, you win, they failked this question. In my previous post I forgot we talk about retarded questions, not retarded Q and A. This time developers gave better answer than question would ever dream of.
Borders. Exploration. The fifth element.
OK, I accidentally made fun of myself, but that has nothing to do with questions. Since question is - again - adequate. If I am that type of character that runs around world [what else could you expect from game that gives 3D open-endness?] borders become pretty important to me, since it is way I am being constrained. Some people find immersion in "kinda reality but its 3D" world and most of Morrowind fans are like that, therefor the question of borders could be put as a question for how they would limit your freedom. Like, in spiderweb games, it would be on par with "How you will implement finite count of answers and questions in dialogues? You could ask whatever you like, so how you deal with this since this is not possible?" There are different kinds of people and, even cRPG players, some like better immersion in Morrowind, others - in spiderweb games. Deal with it.

And the heck, its simply question Bethesda can answer. People are curious ya know. "They shouldnt have asked that, its RETARDED!!!!" No, normal question about game design. There were others like that - the one about walking in and out of houses and are there still in and out sections of city which are pretty i mportant questions to many, since many didnt like that style of city handling so it was reasonable to ask, is there any progress in that area.

Overall - some questions were really specific, others - too bad formulated, but overall this QA showed approximatly what that game will be like from all the details. It may seem I am supporting this whole stuff just because you are not and I am just acting against. Well, its not that. I agree on many things with you, VD - what is important in those games and what is not. Still, you fail to understand that there are also other things that make TES games TES games and these things might not be important to you, but are important to others.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Come on VD, no hard feelings.

Just tone the 'retard' remarks on the front news down a bit, k? I don't actually mind you calling people retards in the comments.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

A wise man once said "Home is where the pie is."

Just thought you all should know that. Kthxbye.

 

[Astromarine]

Jesus christ, you people give me ulcers. Gentlemen, if you are so intent on having conversations that are completely useless 10 minutes after they are uttered, can I suggest you do them on IRC? My bandwidth feels violated, as I'm sure your database must be as well. Please, think of the database.