Interview Retarded Oblivion fan interview

[Seven]

11 pages, huzzah huzzah!!!

 

[Wysardry]

The question was actually:

Could you give the fans any information regarding the behavior of water--eg. flowing and making puddles--and if it will be able to be above or below "0" level?

This makes sense if you're hoping to include rivers, waterfalls, fountains, ponds, pools etc. or even allow players to drink a glass of water above sea level and yes, have puddles when it rains.

Large areas of water spread out due to weight and pressure, whereas smaller pools may hold together due to surface tension. As it seems that Morrowind didn't support water above a certain level, I would imagine that only code for the first instance was included.

The questions were suggested by fans at the Elder Scrolls Forums, but somewhere along the line similar ones were amalgamated and the result simplified.

This particular question seems to be deliberately vague in the hope that it would receive some sort of answer.

 

[Elwro]

Large areas of water spread out due to weight and pressure, whereas smaller pools may hold together due to surface tension. As it seems that Morrowind didn't support water above a certain level, I would imagine that only code for the first instance was included.
.

You lost me here. What "instance" are you talking about? In Morrowind exterior cells the water is at 0 level and that's all. No weight, no pressure etc.

 

[Wysardry]

You lost me here. What "instance" are you talking about? In Morrowind exterior cells the water is at 0 level and that's all. No weight, no pressure etc.

Large areas of water (the first instance of my previous sentence). The weight and pressure is simulated (approximately) by just having water spread out as far as it can at 0 level.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Jesus christ, you people give me ulcers.

That's understandable, considering I give myself ulcers alot.

 

[jiujitsu]

Jiujitsu decides that calling me an asshole and other bullshit like "this isn't VD's Codex and not your weblog" is a good argument.

Yes, I must admit my initial comments lacked a bit of tact as well. I don't do that on other forums and I shouldn't have made an exception here. I'm not a Bethesda fanboy, but I did like Morrowind and have some hope that Oblivion will be a great improvement on it. I just became annoyed at how you attacked those peoples questions and I posted too quickly without letting myself calm down. I am sorry for that and regret it.

Now, after eleven pages, here's my take on the questions.

The answer to the linearity question is a little disappointing, but I don't really mind it. As long as there are a ton of sidequests, like there was in Morrowind, I'll be happy.

The question on difficulty settings is useless to me.

The question about side quests is interesting, but I'm not really sure that Todd actually answered it..

I don't really care about the NPC population. I'll see it when it's out.

The AI sounds cool and I hope it's better than Morrowinds. I used to just jump up on a high rock or levitate up and start shooting the enemy with arrows until they were dead. I loved to kill things that were more powerful that I was, but it was pretty lame anyway.

The repairing of things other than gear is interesting. Too bad Todd wouldn't answer the question..

The perks and penalties of the different races would be interesting if Todd actually answered it..

Same goes for the magic system..

The question about damage zones is interesting. I'm disappointed that there won't be any.

Sneaking sounds cool.

I don't really care about the home owning aspect of things unless it comes with a bunch of quests like in Baldur's Gate 2.

I have been interested in realistically behaving water for a while now and even more so due to this question. It doesn't have anything to do with gameplay really, but developers have yet to come up with really awesome water effects.

I am interested in area and battle music changing. Too bad Todd didn't say very much.

I don't care about modeling and texturing. I have no interest in making mods.

The interior/exterior cells question is interesting. A monster chasing you into a building reminds me of Baldur's Gate in some instances. That always pissed me off, but it's cool.

I don't really see a point to the question about utilizing the entire map. Though, the part about underwater quests sounds cool. Exploring ruins of a city that is at the bottom of the ocean is an awesome thought. Too bad Todd seemed to let on that something like that won't be happening.

The questiong about borders is rather pointless. I would just assume there would be one, because that's common sense.

Physics is a good thing to ask about. I liked Todd's answer to it as well. I spent the first ten minutes of Half-Life 2 picking things up and throwing them at people. I love it.

Game rating is a good question. I liked the answer too. Though, I am disappointed about there being no boobies.

I don't see how the last question was necessary. I thought Bethesda prided itself on listening to the fans. So, why ask a question you already know the answer to?

That's all I've got. There were a couple that seemed like filler questions, but a lot were kind of interesting. I'd rather read a Codex interview, though.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I'd rather read a Codex interview, though.

Got my vote on that one! Whaddya say, Saint? :D

 

[Vault Dweller]

VD vs Kamaz, round II

What is so retard asking how much NPC can we expect in game and will there be crowds.

Nothing wrong with that question. However that wasn't the question. The question was "how do you plan on emulating this massive crowd?" There is no doubt that we can rephrase anything stupid into a bit of Confucius-like wisdom, but this isn't the point of this discussion. Either discuss questions are they ARE, or drop this crusade.

Knowing Bethesda is into open-endness and "just-like-reality" it might be reasonable to verify how "realistic" crowds they plan.

Well, Kamaz, anyone who thinks that there is a chance to see an RPG town filled with tens or hundreds of thousands people is fucking retarded. Do I really need to explain that to you?

Seriously, its adequate question for Morrowind-like game where everyone is just floating around ya. That they gave answer 1000 just proves that nothing surprising, nothing exceptional, but why not ask?

Because the answer is obvious?

so for modders they might just be interested to learn if these fucking puddles are implemented. And how.

That's not really a point. You can justify anything that way: modders might be interested to learn if piles of dung are implemented and if they are throwable and stickable to other surfaces, including faces.

God knows for what crazy reasons, but - baah - why its retarded then?

Another great argument. A signature material.

To be honest, I think this question was asked about water in general and effects that could be applied to it.

Yes, let's think and interprete it until it starts making sense.

Paddles was just an example, though waterflow would be really great deal in graphical plane since there is no flowing water in computer games yet.

Yes, there is. Good ol' DOS game where things looked like crap but everything was possible.

Though having said its unintereting for me, I explained its because I havent played those games so could not compare. But I added about 2-3 sentences where I actually talked about ..wait, here is the quote -
"if I knew such feature is going to be in the game, I would be interested to see how it works and how it is done".

That was not the question

If I am that type of character that runs around world borders become pretty important to me, since it is way I am being constrained.

This is really stupid, I hope that some hidden meaning got lost in translation. Besides, I don't really think that "constrained" could be applied to TES games. They had faults, but constrained they are not.

...the question of borders could be put as a question for how they would limit your freedom.

Once again you are trying to tweak the question.

Like, in spiderweb games, it would be on par with "How you will implement finite count of answers and questions in dialogues? You could ask whatever you like, so how you deal with this since this is not possible?" There are different kinds of people and, even cRPG players, some like better immersion in Morrowind, others - in spiderweb games. Deal with it.

Your analogy sucks, sorry to say that. First, finite means limited that it doesn't go with "you can ask whatever you like", second, you can't ask whatever you like in Spiderweb games, and third, you can't compare game mechanics to objects.

Overall - some questions were really specific, others - too bad formulated, but overall this QA showed approximatly what that game will be like from all the details.

Can you be more specific here, instead of throwing general phrases. Specify "from all the details" and tell me what exactly have you learned (as in didn't know before) from the interview

Still, you fail to understand that there are also other things that make TES games TES games and these things might not be important to you, but are important to others.

I know what TES games are, I played all of them. I don't see what knowing what they are has to do with the interview. I also don't see how making empty statements like "it's important to somebody" can help you win the argument.

PS. Yes, it's important to somebody. Somebody very stupid :p

 

[Vault Dweller]

... I posted too quickly without letting myself calm down. I am sorry for that and regret it.

No big deal, don't worry about it.

So, why ask a question you already know the answer to?

That was my problem with the interview. Imo, 50% of the questions were of "we already know the answer to" variety, 40% of the "who cares" variety, and only 10% were somewhat informative.

I'd rather read a Codex interview, though.

I don't really see a point though, until Bethesda announces all the features and changes like the new magic system and those boss battles. Then we can talk to them and ask specific questions, assuming, of course, they would interested in talking to us.

 

[dojoteef]

Well since you guys are determined to keep this thread going I guess I'll try to counter some of your arguments.

1) Why did you call the questions retarded? It's wrong and it hurts people's feelings; don't do it.

Why is it wrong in this case? I really want to know. I've always seen reviews and interviews from other news gaming sites called stupid, ignorant, retarded, etc. here at the Codex. Why is it suddenly wrong for Vault Dweller to do it on this occasion? I just don't get it, maybe someone can give me a straight answer on this one.

2) The questions are interesting to some people, especially modders.

This is definitely not a well thought out argument. I bet I could pick a shitty ass game at random, one that just about everyone on this site agrees is shitty (take Lionheart for example), and there will be someone who finds the game interesting, innovative, or worth the time to play. Just because someone might find something interesting hasn't stopped news posters here at the Codex from bashing them on the frontpage before. I've seen Spazmo, Vault Dweller, Saint, Exitium, and once even Whipporowill do it. So, what am I missing?

 

[PennyAnte]

In the official forum for Oblivion, there's a post about not puddles, but wells, a post about whether NPCs should need to eat, and a post about whether clothes will affect sneaking.

VD: I would guess that qualitatively speaking, you'd say the last item is less retarded than the others, am I correct?

EDIT: Maybe the retardation factor is equal? I don't want to leave out "all of the above."

EDIT: In the post about having wells, Ratwar asks: "Yeah, but would it really add to the game in any way besides looks? I don't really think so..."

EDIT: A user quoted in the post about eating is named "Balmora Hooker," and the post features a yes/no poll on the issue. The fan community is pretty much evenly split. It's definitely too close to call on whether Wood Elves should get the munchies three times a day.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Eating should definitely not be in the game. It might be 'realistic' but it is a game ruining experience. Being forced to eat every couple of hours in Arx Fatalis was a real pain in the butt.

 

[Kamaz]

The question, again -

The population in Cyrodiil, the assumed main setting for Oblivion, is said to be ‘thousands upon thousands'. With such a small NPC bank, how do you plan on emulating this massive crowd?

Not without reason words 'thousands upon thousands' are put into quotes, since it applies to gameworld's setting. And the question is - how they plan to deal with it considering they are not going to implement all the million NPCs.(Why do you think asker believes there is a chance for literally 'thousands upon thousands'?)

In a game like Fallouts such question would be kinda silly, since there was another concept. In a game like Morrowind - "pseudoreality" where "what you see is what you get" it is somehow essential and important to gameplay, since the city is built "as is". It is not representation of city, there are no represantation of distances - you see where it is and if you want to get there, you have to literally walk there. I am not saying it is done well and "what you see is what you get" truely, but its their direction of design. The asker just is curious how they will represent (hence 'emulate') such crowd which is 'thousands upon thousands' in setting. And now you can extrapolate this question to 'how much NPCs will there actually be'.

About that puddle question. I think, most of the others posters allready nailed it down - question is about various water effects we can expect from Oblivion. Since in the previous game water was one of the features ("we have realistic water!"), it would be just adequate to ask weather Oblivion is going to have something groundbreaking or not in this area again.

Speaking of music.. well, I havent played the games, yet others have. They ask if there will be any upgrades or no - it is very simple and normal question. Even havent played the games, I am curious to know if game's music will be "situation-smart" because it could be very good thing.

Borders. *sigh* Simple question for those who love to run around - its obviously stated that it is significent for special group of players, "explorers" - how they will be limited. They could have done just random landscape and then you could run for decades without getting somewhere. Very simple question - how do I know its the end of the world? Cannot I get by? How it looks there?

It was provocative kind of question to gain as much info about borders and their implementation, as possible. There are some that care. You call them dumb? Why? If game offers such possibility why should I do as everybody else does? I roleplay character that runs around the world, why not? Its maybe the only freedom Morrowind could offer. Stupid are those that try to seek some sense in those quests maybe...

And yes, comparison with dialogues sucks. It was not wise to make one.


From this QA I can now safely tell that Oblivion wont bring any revolutionary features and will be allmost the same old Morrowind just with better graphics, physics and other small improvements. Plus, I am interested to see the water of Oblivion now. What borders, music and all the other stuff has to do with it? When I played the game, I ran into those features and it is what I remember, so I can approximatly tell what next game will be compared to Morrowind.

Important to somebody? Yes, important to somebody. If that somebody is not you, it means it is stupid?

..it won't stop..until you wise up..

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I want an RPG that has a city with 10,000 NPCs, all individually named and voiced as well as having their own independent AI's. Yup yup, uh-huh.

And, and, then I want a bar that I can go into with Liz Phair singing on stage and she's singing the Banana Bunch theme. Yeah, that would fucking rock my socks off.

Oh, and every one of those NPCs has to be unique in appearance and ask retarded questions like how deep does your water go or some shit like that. That would be cool.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Round III

Not without reason words 'thousands upon thousands' are put into quotes, since it applies to gameworld's setting.

Show me a fantasy RPG setting that doesn't count its population in thousands.

And the question is - how they plan to deal with it considering they are not going to implement all the million NPCs.

Like I said, nobody ever deals with that issue because it's not fun from design point of view and it's a waste of resources, assuming that was technologically possible. It's clear to everyone but the guy who asked that question. It's one of those things like eating and shitting in games. We assume that these things take place but no visual representation is necessary.

Why do you think asker believes there is a chance for literally 'thousands upon thousands'?

Because he's a fucking moron

In a game like Morrowind - "pseudoreality" where "what you see is what you get" it is somehow essential and important to gameplay, since the city is built "as is".

Bullshit. MW isn't the first FP RPG, is it? Take Gothic for example. We are told that a large orcish army threatens the land. The large army consists of about 50 orcs.

Now, since I've mentioned Gothic, these games are way more realistic: people sit, sleep, eat, cook food, chat; armorer makes weapons, etc. So, there is no need to present MW as the first game in that pseudoreality genre you've just made up.

I think, most of the others posters allready nailed it down - question is about various water effects we can expect from Oblivion. Since in the previous game water was one of the features ("we have realistic water!"), it would be just adequate to ask weather Oblivion is going to have something groundbreaking or not in this area again.

Why didn't they ask it then? Once again, stop twisting questions to support your position.

well, I havent played the games, yet others have.

I love "I haven't played the game, but I love to argue" type arguments. Go play them then, and then come back. I will be here.

They ask if there will be any upgrades or no - it is very simple and normal question.

That's not what they asked.

Simple question for those who love to run around - its obviously stated that it is significent for special group of players, "explorers" - how they will be limited.

People who feel that they are limited in TES games are anal-retentive faggots. Out of curiosity, do you feel that you are limited in TES games, Kamaz?

Very simple question - how do I know its the end of the world? Cannot I get by? How it looks there?

Why won't you play the fucking game to find out?

It was provocative kind of question to gain as much info about borders and their implementation, as possible. There are some that care. You call them dumb? Why? If game offers such possibility why should I do as everybody else does? I roleplay character that runs around the world, why not? Its maybe the only freedom Morrowind could offer. Stupid are those that try to seek some sense in those quests maybe...

That is the stupidest thing I've read lately, and considering that we are on page 11 now, you can take that as a compliment.

And yes, comparison with dialogues sucks. It was not wise to make one.

Thank you

From this QA I can now safely tell that Oblivion wont bring any revolutionary features and will be allmost the same old Morrowind just with better graphics

What a shocker! I thought it would be an isometric and turn-based DnD game. You know, what if and all that.

 

[Vault Dweller]

VD: I would guess that qualitatively speaking, you'd say the last item is less retarded than the others, am I correct?

I'd say so, then again it depends on a game and its mechanics. If there are different situations (i.e. it's easier to sneak at night in black, but harder during the day because you look like some freaking ninja-wannabe and attract attention; different clothes and disquises for different occasions) then it would work well. If not, and black is the color of choice because it "owns", then it's retarded.

Anyway, speaking of stupid Oblivion threads:

The Day Oblivion Comes Out, What are you going to do?

Super Alchmy

do u guys think super alchmy chould return i do cuz flying at 1000000mph is soo cool

Expansions For Oblivion

Will there be expansions for Oblivion? If so, what will they be called, and where will they take place?

My Little Idea (what I Think Tesiii Lacked...), "Replayability"

I loved Morrowind and its addons. So I have a nice registered copy of each (after having played a well cracked version.. the game is/was a work of art).
The only thing that I think should also be added to the game is the option to start again with a char, just like in Diablo I&II, and the import/export option in Icewind Dale and Bladur's gate and other such games.. No items or reputations or such, but all gained abilities (this would include the idea of immortality from corprus and disease immunity- simply make the story a little different after having finshed once) and XP and levels. Come on, the RPG value would increase. You could happily join a guild and do the quests, or play as a thief, or simply go out of the census office, fly away and throw fireballs on the puny elves... To make it harder, the difficulty would be locked at 100 (or you'd just set it there...).
What do you think?
Personally, I just got sick of restarting and then having to bash monsters and fire at walls to increase my skills (I have a kind of fixation of getting some skills to 100 by myself, without training.).

What a moron.

 

[Kamaz]

Not without reason words 'thousands upon thousands' are put into quotes, since it applies to gameworld's setting.

Show me a fantasy RPG setting that doesn't count its population in thousands.

I mean he realizes that this number comes from setting and he does not assume the game will have such number of NPCs. Thats the reason why there are quotes.

And the question is - how they plan to deal with it considering they are not going to implement all the million NPCs.

Like I said, nobody ever deals with that issue because it's not fun from design point of view and it's a waste of resources, assuming that was technologically possible. It's clear to everyone but the guy who asked that question. It's one of those things like eating and shitting in games. We assume that these things take place but no visual representation is necessary.

OK, its clear allready, but you said there were some 400-600 NPC in Morrowind [or smth like that] and they emulated one province with such NPC bank. I immagine this time this city he talks abou, has even more citizens according to setting, so he wonders how they deal with this. Very specific question but nonetheless, he doesnt ask "will there be million NPC?"

Why do you think asker believes there is a chance for literally 'thousands upon thousands'?

Because he's a fucking moron

OK, my fault. I asked your personal opinion on him. I know I shouldnt.

In a game like Morrowind - "pseudoreality" where "what you see is what you get" it is somehow essential and important to gameplay, since the city is built "as is".

Bullshit. MW isn't the first FP RPG, is it? Take Gothic for example. We are told that a large orcish army threatens the land. The large army consists of about 50 orcs.

First of all, in Gothic an orc is something really scary and powerful. I, as a character/player, was really scared of them and in the first game saw one of them only for a second before died. I gained great respect towards them. And townspeople are respecting orcs as well, so it can be reasonable to think 50 orcs is fucking great army. If you remember in medieval times people loved to exaggerate and sometimes 100 men could be put as few thousands of brave warriors and so.That seems pretty ok to me. But that was offtopic and I commented on it just because it was the part of Gothic I really liked.

Sure thing Morrowind is not near the best or only FP "pseudorealistic" cRPG, but it wants to go that - pseudorealistic - way and therefor we can expect them to take into consideration as many 'realistic' features,as possible. Noone expects them to have literally thousands of NPC, but its interesting to see how they deal with this forced scaling. Will I feel in this big city as I am in a big city?

Why didn't they ask it then? Once again, stop twisting questions to support your position.

Could you give the fans any information regarding the behavior of water--eg. flowing and making puddles--and if it will be able to be above or below "0" level?

They ask a)will water flow; b)will it leave puddles; and c)some mod specific question. Even more, they put "e.g." that shows those are just samples of what watter could possibly do. Its hard to me to understand why you think they dont ask about effects since they mentione "water behaviour" (and its effect, doh!) and give some examples. Do you honestly believe they ask about puddles specifically? Oh, nevermind, yes I know, they are morons. But you are making up then.

I love "I haven't played the game, but I love to argue" type arguments. Go play them then, and then come back. I will be here.

For God's sake, what this question have to do with me? The fans asked, not me, the question should be ok even if I have not played the game. (Well, to be honest, I have played the TES games but without sound support, so I cannot comment.)

That's not what they asked.

They asked:

Will Oblivion return to the location based music concept apparent in earlier installments of the TES series, with dedicated music for dungeons and different aspects like timing and weather?

Why its dumb question? They ask about music in game, stressing aspects they find the most important.

People who feel that they are limited in TES games are anal-rete
ntive faggots. Out of curiosity, do you feel that you are limited in TES games, Kamaz?

codex style answer. I am sorry my style of expressing and lack of language skills misguided you. By "how they are limited" I meant "how they implement borders" just in other words. Nothing more.

Why won't you play the fucking game to find out?

This is not an argument. Its rethorical question. You can counter-ask this about everything and then we would need no interviews with devs. "Do you plan implementing multiple solutions to sidequests?" "Why dont you find out yourself, retard!"

That is the stupidest thing I've read lately, and considering that we are on page 11 now, you can take that as a compliment.

Why? Everyone should play the game the only way its meant? I played Bloodlines with Gangrel that specialized in hacking, sneaking and firearms. Plus, I avoided drink any blood and did not kill if not forced. Why? Its more interesting to play the game this way than some usual "I am gangrel, so lets boost our protean skills." way. This is freedome RPGs should offer. And if Morrowind can offer wide open landscapes why shouldnt I walk around? I find it boring playing the way the game was intended. I bet you create your own characters if play some cRPG and dont take any pregenerated ones with their automatic levelup system. What does it change if you dont use the system's freedom to its limits? You are going allways the same path and I find it boring. I want my choice and I want it now.

And yes, comparison with dialogues sucks. It was not wise to make one.

Thank you

You are wellcome.

From this QA I can now safely tell that Oblivion wont bring any revolutionary features and will be allmost the same old Morrowind just with better graphics

What a shocker! I thought it would be an isometric and turn-based DnD game. You know, what if and all that.

You may not believe, but seeing those screenshots gave me some doubts about that. I thought they'd go further and make Oblivion somehow different than Morrowind. I did not expect any isometric view since a)I saw screens; b)seeing modern cRPG tendencies I find it impossible.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

When's the pay-per-view event, guys?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Round 4

Show me a fantasy RPG setting that doesn't count its population in thousands.

I mean he realizes that this number comes from setting and he does not assume the game will have such number of NPCs.

If he doesn't assume, as you say, that the game will not feature realistic population, why ask the question?

I immagine this time this city he talks abou, has even more citizens according to setting, so he wonders how they deal with this.

The answer is obvious, and hasn't changed in decades. Therefore, the question is stupid.

Why do you think asker believes there is a chance for literally 'thousands upon thousands'?

Because he's a fucking moron

OK, my fault. I asked your personal opinion on him. I know I shouldnt.

Well, there is no other way to answer your question, is there? I don't know how stupid a person should be to think that "literally thousands upon thousands" could be implemented in games.

First of all, in Gothic an orc is something really scary and powerful. I, as a character/player, was really scared of them and in the first game saw one of them only for a second before died. I gained great respect towards them.

Yet by the end of the game you were killing them 2-3 at a time. Some army.

And townspeople are respecting orcs as well, so it can be reasonable to think 50 orcs is fucking great army.

For noobs and townfolks, not for a seasoned paladin "army"

Sure thing Morrowind is not near the best or only FP "pseudorealistic" cRPG, but it wants to go that - pseudorealistic - way and therefor we can expect them to take into consideration as many 'realistic' features,as possible.

No, it does NOT want to go that way. It wants to go the cinematic "OMG! It looks so pretty!" way. I thought that was clear.

Noone expects them to have literally thousands of NPC, but its interesting to see how they deal with this forced scaling.

The same way it was done before because it's the only way.

Do you honestly believe they ask about puddles specifically?

Well, I'm not really in question-interpreting business, but it sure looks like they've picked puddles over mountain lakes, falls, etc.

For God's sake, what this question have to do with me? The fans asked, not me...

Well, you are the one defending it here, aren't you?

Why its dumb question? They ask about music in game, stressing aspects they find the most important.

This, in particular, was not a dumb question. This was a "who gives a fuck" question.

codex style answer

When in Rome...

I am sorry....

I forgive you, don't worry

By "how they are limited" I meant "how they implement borders" just in other words. Nothing more.

Does it really matter? Suppose I tell you that there are unpassable mountains, or uncrossable plains, or just a wall with a guy who says "get the fuck outta here", how would that change your perception of the game? Would you plan your character in advance trying to prepare him in advance to the Border, trying to climb the mountains, run really really fast through the plains, or kill the mean guard?

This is not an argument. Its rethorical question. You can counter-ask this about everything and then we would need no interviews with devs. "Do you plan implementing multiple solutions to sidequests?" "Why dont you find out yourself, retard!"

Once again, that's different. The multi-solution question is important to people who hate linear games. A game may or may not feature different solutions. A border, on the other hand, is a part of every game, one way or another. It doesn't affect the gameplay. It's just there. Whether it's a wall or an ocean is absolutely irrelevant, especially in TES games.

Why? Everyone should play the game the only way its meant?

Playing a game in different ways and role-playing your character is one thing, being obsessed with borders, which are technically not a part of the game ( and your character shouldn't even be concerned and know about them, btw) is another thing. I hope you can see the difference.

 

[Kamaz]

If he doesn't assume, as you say, that the game will not feature realistic population, why ask the question?

Again - it will not be 1:1, that he knows for sure. But what scale it will be like? He is curious because this city must be larger than any other towns in TES games before. So, how big it will be exactly? Since asker is fan of series, he can immagine certain number of floating NPCs in TES games, therefor this information gives him at least some guidelines.

Yet by the end of the game you were killing them 2-3 at a time. Some army.

Well that is the thing I did not like about Gothic and reason why I have not completed none of both games. I like the first part when you are weak and have to struggle to survive and there are plenty of things to do. Later it gets too boring and typically fantasy for me.

For noobs and townfolks, not for a seasoned paladin "army"

Uhu. Thats right. I would be more pleased if they had worked this out more. How many "paladins" there were?

No, it does NOT want to go that way. It wants to go the cinematic "OMG! It looks so pretty!" way. I thought that was clear.

I doubt its cinematic. Oblivion maybe will be but Daggerfall, Arena, Morrowind were far from being cinematic. Open-endness was their strongest side. Actually, that one of the unique characteristics of the game, its feature. I know lot of people loving/liking Morrowind and all of them liked the game just because of its open-endness. I wont argue about how actually open-ended the game is, since I dont find it too open-ended myself, but anyways, its clear - as the devs and PR have stated - open-endness is their goal.

Well, I'm not really in question-interpreting business, but it sure looks like they've picked puddles over mountain lakes, falls, etc.

If you look at question closer, you might notice they speak of water flow and only then mention puddle. They want to know if a)water flows; b)if so, will it leave puddle after itself. There was that blood feature - it actually would be cool if you could cut your oponent, he'd bleed all over the ground and blood would flow down a hill, leaving some puddles behind. That was very quick and therefor lame example, but it shows the reason they spoke of puddles in the first place.

Well, you are the one defending it here, aren't you?

I am just saying question arent retarded. I dont know anything about fans, though. And retardness of question should not be connected with me in any way.

This, in particular, was not a dumb question. This was a "who gives a fuck" question.

Again. Rethorical question. "Will there be those multiple solutions to the quests, sir developer?" "Who gives a fuck? Retard!"
I understand, you could say you "give a fuck" about multiple solutions because you may hate linear games. Then maybe they "give a fuck" about music and so on, since they find it very important gameplay element?

codex style answer

When in Rome...

I'll pass then.

Does it really matter? Suppose I tell you that there are unpassable mountains, or uncrossable plains, or just a wall with a guy who says "get the fuck outta here", how would that change your perception of the game? Would you plan your character in advance trying to prepare him in advance to the Border, trying to climb the mountains, run really really fast through the plains, or kill the mean guard?

Guess what, sometimes it metters. If PR claims game to be open ended, its temptation for players to see is it really infinite and how vast and large and open-ended it is. I know many such players. They dont give a fuck about restrictions in MaxPayne, but as soon as its Morrowind and it seems there is no border, they just go for it and try to reach one. Actually there are very many people that like to see where the gameworld ends if game is so open as it is in case with Morrowind.

Once again, that's different. The multi-solution question is important to people who hate linear games. A game may or may not feature different solutions. A border, on the other hand, is a part of every game, one way or another. It doesn't affect the gameplay. It's just there. Whether it's a wall or an ocean is absolutely irrelevant, especially in TES games.

They dont ask will there be any borders. They ask what those borders be like. There are many design ways to deal with it.They want to know specifically how. Therefor question is not "retarded" but "who gives a fuck" and about that kind of questions I allready commented just above.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Round 5: More of the same

If he doesn't assume, as you say, that the game will not feature realistic population, why ask the question?

Again - it will not be 1:1, that he knows for sure.

You are assuming and interpreting again.

But what scale it will be like?

There is no scale. One NPC does not represent 10 or 100 or 1000.

For noobs and townfolks, not for a seasoned paladin "army"

Uhu. Thats right. I would be more pleased if they had worked this out more. How many "paladins" there were?

I would say about 40 in the entire game. Still we assume, because we are told, that there is a huge orcish army and a decent number of paladins.

I doubt its cinematic. Oblivion maybe ...

Well, we were talking about Oblivion... According to the GI article, it will be shorter but prettier.

Open-endness was their strongest side.

No arguing here, my comment was in response to " Morrowind is not near the best or only FP "pseudorealistic" cRPG, but it wants to go that - pseudorealistic - way"

There was that blood feature - it actually would be cool if you could cut your oponent, he'd bleed all over the ground and blood would flow down a hill, leaving some puddles behind.

Yeah, awesome. I wonder if there is a realistic "brains explosion" (tm) feature. You wack someone with an axe, and brains are flying all over the place, while blood flows down and make puddles. Then you can write your name in blood like a serial killer.

That was very ... lame example...

That's what I said when I first saw it

I understand, you could say you "give a fuck" about multiple solutions because you may hate linear games. Then maybe they "give a fuck" about music and so on, since they find it very important gameplay element?

Not THAT important. We can't really compare gameplay mechanics with sounds and colours, can we?

If PR claims game to be open ended, its temptation for players to see is it really infinite and how vast and large and open-ended it is.

You do realize that there are no infinite FP games, and that term "open-ended" doesn't refer to the physical "ends" of the game, right?

They dont give a fuck about restrictions in MaxPayne, but as soon as its Morrowind and it seems there is no border, they just go for it and try to reach one.

Well, they are fucking stupid, sorry to break that to you. Aint no other way of saying that.

Stupidity - acting in unintelligent manner. There is nothing intelligent in being obsessed about a game border just because it exists.

They dont ask will there be any borders. They ask what those borders be like. There are many design ways to deal with it. They want to know specifically how. Therefor question is not "retarded" but "who gives a fuck" and about that kind of questions I allready commented just above.

No, this particular question is actually retarded, no doubt about that. I'm sure that there are many people who are really interested to know how the borders will be designed, and if there is anything on "the other side", etc; but that's just stupid. There are things that you just have to accept and understand, Kamaz, like the sun is hot and really far. Why? That's just how it is. Deal with it.

 

[Kamaz]

Well, this quote-by-quote discussion manner aint going to lead us anywhere. You keep saying questions are retarded, I keep arguing that those are not. You easily play around with words and show what I allready know and agree with - what is important in every cRPG and what is not. Sure thing, that border thing is unimportant from your point of you and from cRPG angle. But it may be important if you are to make a mod. Puddles seem funny to you, but water effects is pretty interesting topic - of course, not in cRPG area, I agree with you. Its very interesting topic from graphics point of view. Since QA were about game and not about RPG features, this seems ok to me. Music? Again, nothing to do with RPG features but very important part of game structure. 1000 of NPCs? Well, I still dont understand why you can't see simple comparison - in setting its said 100 people in [some Morrowind town] and game offers 20, approximetly how much will there be in that city of err..that other province.You dont care? Thats your problem, actually this question was pretty interesting to me and I allready spoke about that. In Outcast there were crowds of people in the city if you turned specific option on and it was nice feature - running away from guards and hiding into crowd.

The thing is, I dont call those 'retarded'. Questions are strange and very specific, uninteresting, but not retarded. I raise against this word - retarded, I dont claim they are really good and excellent questions. IMO, just simple questions. Why retarded? You act like european in middle ages - what I dont understand is wrong. Or what is not important to me.
----------------------------------------
Plus, speaking of overall codex posting style I have nothing against opinions, I would just enjoy sarcasm instead of open yelling. Calling someone dumbass is kinda the same as saying "CS ROXXX!!! CS SUXXXXX!!!" Its much cooler and interesting to express the same thing by precise and sharp sarcasm.
You could have handled this all without 'retarded' I believe. That is the main complain.

 

[Vault Dweller]

We finally agree on something - this discussion is pointless. We have presented each other the arguments and points, and that's as far as that would go. I hope that while you disagree with me, you see my reasons and understand my reaction.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I think someone intentionally extended the length of pages to keep this from rolling over to page 12. Hmmm.......

 

[Vault Dweller]

A conspiracy?!

Edit: Apparently not. Welcome to PAGE 12!!!