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Revamping the genre!....... ?

Baron Tahn

Scholar
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Messages
668
I dont find it neccessary for adventure games but some games use mechanics like that to good effect. Have you played Outer Wilds? Id call that an adventure game and while not exactly ehst you are talking about its pretty innovative and also one of the best ganes if recent times.

If you havent played it, do so, but go in blind. Dont watch a streamer and spoil it.
 

Darkozric

Arbiter
Edgy
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
1,868
Would you see that (done properly) as an evolution?
What do you think of my idea about including the movement based mechanics into the genre?

Well, it could be a fun adventure/platform hybrid but hardly an evolution. Except if you're able to explore the movement mechanics deeper and incorporate them as new ways of puzzle-solving, then there's always the possibility to come up with a few innovative ideas.
 

free_pepe

Literate
Joined
Aug 18, 2024
Messages
37
Would you see that (done properly) as an evolution?
What do you think of my idea about including the movement based mechanics into the genre?

Well, it could be a fun adventure/platform hybrid but hardly an evolution. Except if you're able to explore the movement mechanics deeper and incorporate them as new ways of puzzle-solving, then there's the always the possibility to come up with a few innovative ideas.

Can you think of any ways that it would dampen the experience? (other than limiting the game's setting to somewhere with uneven terrain.... there's not too many platforms in a city, unless you're a cat getting on roof tops and such.... and the character has to be kind of agile)
 

free_pepe

Literate
Joined
Aug 18, 2024
Messages
37
I dont find it neccessary for adventure games but some games use mechanics like that to good effect. Have you played Outer Wilds? Id call that an adventure game and while not exactly ehst you are talking about its pretty innovative and also one of the best ganes if recent times.

If you havent played it, do so, but go in blind. Dont watch a streamer and spoil it.
I haven't played it man... I take it it's kinda like Myst?? I do like that idea of being thrown into a big open space, to gradually peice together a mystery.

But yeah I was thinking more like Monkey Island played with a controller with a jump button.

Obviously such a game can exist without the platforming, but do you think it'd be better or worse with it?
 

Baron Tahn

Scholar
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Messages
668
Worse, generally.

But no, Outer Wilds is not like myst. It also has an innovative control thing going on that is better than a jump button. Not going to spoil it but if you havent played it and are thinking about revamping adventure gsme genre its basically a must play.
 

free_pepe

Literate
Joined
Aug 18, 2024
Messages
37
Worse, generally.

But no, Outer Wilds is not like myst. It also has an innovative control thing going on that is better than a jump button. Not going to spoil it but if you havent played it and are thinking about revamping adventure gsme genre its basically a must play.
Even though it's not what I'm talking about here I'll probably check it out sometime....

Worse, why?
 

Baron Tahn

Scholar
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Messages
668
As I said, I think its unneeded. Unless it adds something specifically Im not playing adventure games for jump challenges and think it usually would add nothing, but is more likely to add jank and bloat that detracts from the adventure game experience.

Also like I said, some games do mechanics like this well and tie them into the game: IE Outer Wilds.
 

Darkozric

Arbiter
Edgy
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
1,868
I don't know what that means??

.....your surely not seriously asking for money are you!?

I'm not paying to talk to you!

Explain how you'd feel about platforming in adventure games (the central topic of my thread) or GTFO!

Nigga, you made a thread about revamping/evolving the genre, and in the end, all you wanted is a monkey island with a jump button.

I don't give a fuck about your pathetic thread, I'm only here to make a post for Pyke cause he triggered my interest.

Now go masturbate with someone else
 

free_pepe

Literate
Joined
Aug 18, 2024
Messages
37
As I said, I think its unneeded. Unless it adds something specifically Im not playing adventure games for jump challenges and think it usually would add nothing, but is more likely to add jank and bloat that detracts from the adventure game experience.

Also like I said, some games do mechanics like this well and tie them into the game: IE Outer Wilds.
Adventure game puzzles could certainly benefit from not only a jump, but real time physics based mechanics in 10,000 different ways!

If you need to smash the window with the rock? then take aim with the analogue sticks, and let loose!

You can't bounce high enough on the trampoline to grab the branch? Jump off the roof onto it first!

To slow to make it through the timed door? You need to fix the go cart first bro!

(Goose game played around with real time physics quite well)

.....but, that's not really point I'm trying to make here...


I'm just simply saying that surely it'd be more FUN if we just swap the mouse over for the pad (blasphemy, I know), then stick the main character on a bit of an uneven surface; with a couple of little drops, and few logs to jump over, a bit of rock climbing to do, ect! yeah???

.....Now you're not stuck looking at some NPC look guy walking in a perfectly straight line across 5 perfect flat screens, with a simple click of the mouse every 3 seconds.... Now it's more engaging!

That's all I'm talking about, I thought I was pretty clear about that!

I'm not talking about "jump challenges", I don't want any of that either! (.....maybe a couple of little secret ones, or a few slight challenging jumps near the end could work.. but that's it!)

I'm just talking about fun!
(Obviously, it could serve puzzle design well too!)
 

free_pepe

Literate
Joined
Aug 18, 2024
Messages
37
I don't know what that means??

.....your surely not seriously asking for money are you!?

I'm not paying to talk to you!

Explain how you'd feel about platforming in adventure games (the central topic of my thread) or GTFO!

Nigga, you made a thread about revamping/evolving the genre, and in the end, all you wanted is a monkey island with a jump button.

I don't give a fuck about your pathetic thread, I'm only here to make a post for Pyke cause he triggered my interest.

Now go masturbate with someone else

Cya latter then bro
 

Pyke

The Brotherhood
Developer
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
1,226
Location
South Africa
I think that adventure game players generally dont want the genre shaken up too much - they want that same experience they had when they were younger, wrapped in a different package.

This is just plain generalization, I can speak for myself and say that while I mostly enjoy the classic first person formula, I'm always open to new ideas.
That's why I was able to enjoy both Talos Principle games, 2 very different puzzle games in terms of game design philosophy compared to the classic recipe.

Talking about evolution, one should first define what evolution means for adventure games. :-D Evolution is fueled by innovative ideas.
In my point of view there are technical and gameplay innovations. A technical example is that back in the early 90s, FPP adventures relied on static pre-rendered scenery and node-based movement,
Zork Nemesis, on the other hand, stores each of its nodes as a 360-degree panorama instead of a set of fixed views, letting you smoothly turn in place through a complete circle.
A simple gameplay innovation example that I can quickly pull off my head is Monkey Island's insult-based sword fighting.
It was such a simple and neat idea, which hasn't been tried in any adventure game of that time, most importantly it fits the pirate theme and the adventure framework without alienating the genre.

As much I like the Quest for Glory format, evolution is not about throwing a bunch of stats and classes and try to make adventures a lil bit more arrr pee gees, or adding some beat 'em up sections and calling it a day.
This is just mixing predefined genres, which is fine to be a chemist, and as Nifft Batuff mentioned you could potentially have some interesting results, especially in the open world department.
But you bastardize the genre, it still remains a cheap way to consider yourself an innovator.
IMO innovation should be made within the established framework of the genre, and this is the challenge and the beauty of it.
It also requires esoteric thinking and procedures that most of the modern devs are incapable of doing.
For games like Tex Murphy, Riven, etc to exist, talented people pushed their brains to the limit day-night,
they never went "let us spare the tiresome brainstorming on how to push the genre forward and just make a half-assed strategy/adventure or a beat 'em up/adventure and get done with it".

As you move away from the adventure game loop, you are more seen as a lesser version of X genre, not an evolution of adventure games.

Well this is logical, and how can one blame someone for having this view, when what you're suggesting is exactly what I described above.
Additionally, keep in mind that Owlcats also have the delusion that moving away from the role play loop they "evolve" RPGs, but in reality they only manage to irritate people with their pointless management autism.

The problem is that there are other genres that do those things better - that DONT have the limitations of adventure games. Open world games exist - and their mechanics arent confined to specific bespoke inventory management. Platformers exist, but they arent confined to the smaller environments needed for adventure game puzzles to not be frustrating.

Adventures that aren't confined by inventory management and small environments already exist. I don't get what exactly it is that limits you.
For example, you could make a 3rd person Stasis or any other open-world/semi open-world adventure ala URU, but with your own personal spin, without inventory management, meaningful platforming/climbing,
and a few fresh problem solving ideas. Depending on the setting, you could also throw a few stealth sections, but not overdoing it, you need to add some tension not making a Thief successor.
It will not be a point n click, but it will still be an adventure game at heart, without the implied limitations.

Given that you're working on your next game, I have to ask, are you going to innovate or roleplay a chemist?
Oh yeah - you're correct in me saying its a generalisation. I think that adventure gamers tastes are as varied as they come! I think that because its a genre that has such diverse offerings - it sort of gets lots of different people who want different things. Some people will gravitate towards comedy, others want verb coins... hell, I think that the Hidden Object players are an entire other subgenre of adventure gamers.

I suppose when I hear these discussions, Im thinking strickly in the 'point and click' genre - not 'adventure games' as a descriptor of a wider style of game. :D

In our next game you are a... dammit... almost got me!
 

free_pepe

Literate
Joined
Aug 18, 2024
Messages
37
Nobody has even began to address to actual topic of discussion;

How would you feel about adventure games incorporating playful platforming in the game???
 

Baron Tahn

Scholar
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Messages
668
I did, actually. I indicated I wasnt a fan. You appear to be talking to yourself.
 

free_pepe

Literate
Joined
Aug 18, 2024
Messages
37
I did, actually. I indicated I wasnt a fan. You appear to be talking to yourself.

You're the one talking to yourself man! You indicated that you aren't a fan of jump challenges in adventure games....... But I wasn't talking about that, and even agreed that's stupid!

I'm talking about PLAYFUL platforming in adventure game, as a simple more engaging means of traversal!

How do you feel about that?
 

Baron Tahn

Scholar
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Messages
668
...think it usually would add nothing, but is more likely to add jank and bloat that detracts from the adventure game experience.

Also like I said, some games do mechanics like this well and tie them into the game: IE Outer Wilds.
 

free_pepe

Literate
Joined
Aug 18, 2024
Messages
37
...think it usually would add nothing, but is more likely to add jank and bloat that detracts from the adventure game experience.

Also like I said, some games do mechanics like this well and tie them into the game: IE Outer Wilds.
You made that quote regarding jump challenges! (You just cut that part out!)

....There's a big difference between a game like Crash Bandicoot with an Escape room puzzle at the end of each level, and a game like Return to Monkey Island with a couple of logs to jump over and a few rocks to climb up, isn't there!?

........but ignoring your dishonest approach to this "discussion", and pretending that you made that comment regarding my "Moneky Island with a jump button" idea, can you elaborate on what you mean when you say that a simple jump is "more likely to add jank and bloat"????
 

free_pepe

Literate
Joined
Aug 18, 2024
Messages
37
Seriously, "janky" means poorly done yeah!? .....yeah, if somebody who's never made a game outside the SCUM engine trys doing this, their 1st attempt will probably be janky, but my idea is not responsible for their skill set!

So onto "bloated"...... What do you mean by that!?
 

f2a

Novice
Joined
Aug 20, 2022
Messages
34
...How about instead of gameplay focused on randomly clicking things until something works, it be about light platforming! and exploring more open environments!
Platform adventures — or action adventures — have been around since a long time, possibly since the ZX Spectrum era.
I fancy them a lot.
 

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