Incline Revisiting Old Games (Again)

[Falksi]

The 7th Saga - SNES

Some games come to your attention on a wave of hype, others you stumble across randomly, and others rightly get the spotlight because of their quality. The 7th Saga is a game which I'd never heard of back in the 90's, and which came to my attention via emulation during the early 00's. Not because of any of the reasons mentioned previously, but instead because it was always near the top of the SNES games lists which were in alphabetical order.

You're greeted with a choice of 7 very individual & interesting characters to select from, which include the likes of a demon, a robot, and an alien. Combined with wonderfully colourful settings & presentation, not to mention excellent & very immersive music, there's a lot to suck you in. The battle screen continues offering that great presentation too, and first impressions were ones that pulled me in big time.

Initially I loved the battle setup itself too. Aforementioned presentation obviously helps, but decisions really seem to count here, and adding more strategic options - such as the fact that defending increases your attack power for a short while after - adds a very nice dynamic to the usual JRPG battle systems, and it just makes things a bit more interesting than usual.

Difficulty ranges from brutal to average depending on your stats, but sadly without any serious grinding the balance is tipped way more in favour of "brutal", and some standard fights often feel like boss fights where you have to throw everything at them to progress. And regardless of stats a major source of irritation comes in the form of how often enemies successfully dodge attacks. I just trialed 15 attacks, and out of those 5 were dodged. That's just too many. It stretches things out needlessly, undermines a lot of your decisions, and removes a lot of the gratification from battles too.

And yes, the grind. Ye gads the grind, it just wears the fuck out of you. Yes battles have some fun value when you're levelled well enough, but you just have to grind SO much to stay in touch with the enemies that it becomes a complete and utter burden to play. Throw in the fact that weapons & armour are often overpriced & underpowered, and the enemies aren't opposed to one-shotting you with instant death attacks too, and the whole thing becomes slog city.

What it does do right though is offer a different angle on the usual JRPG quests of that era, with a fairly big world & the characters playing such an integral part to the quest. The story isn't anything spectacular in itself, but it does the job, and there is a genuine sense of tension as you progress and as you all search for these runes. And it's also another game from that era which comes with a top soundtrack, and excellent enemy design to boot.

This game is incredibly frustrating, because they get so many things right and it promises loads, but it ultimately fails to deliver because of a few small bad decisions. I like so much about it that I tried playing it through 4 times with different combos of characters, but ultimately I gave up with each pairing around halfway through. Just too grindy and too punishing to stay the right side of the work-fun balance.






There is however a "New Class" hack which rebalances things & supposedly eases the grind significantly, but I've yet to play it. Looking forward to giving it a blast one day. If you like the look of this game but find it too grindy, that might be a decent alternative to look into.

 

[ValeVelKal]

Woot ! Thanks for that one.

Another weird game for your list, though famous : Cannon Fodder !

 

[Falksi]

Woot ! Thanks for that one.

Another weird game for your list, though famous : Cannon Fodder !

Nice suggestion and funnily enough downloaded that already last week

Wanna make some headway into some JRPGs and possibly tactical games first though. Need to start getting through them.

 

[ValeVelKal]

Apart from that, yes, WC1 (and WC2) are still incredibly fun to play. They can be ironmanned as well, since there are "losing branches" for the game. Actually, I finished WC1 and its first expansion, and WC2 and its first expansion in Ironman. The second expansion of WC1 is just too damn hard, and I got shot down by a capital ship at the very last mission of WC2 SO2, which was very frustrating.

Combats are indeed confusing, and really your wingman in WC1 is fighting on his own instead of really covering you (unlike WC2 where people have sometimes different ships, for very different experience, and radio orders to support actually do something). Still, the way they pilot is very different depending on the Wingman, and that's really well done. I love the casual convo at the pub myself.

Actually, since we are talking about space shooter, in addition to Cannon Fodder I want to add ... Freespace 1 !

 

[e-mailio estevez]

Although I've always been a mark for Castlevania, Bloodlines was just ok to me. Like Hyperstone Heist, felt like Genesis users were getting scraps from Konami compared to Nintendo.

I actually prefer Hyperstone Heist to Turtles in Time and a lot of other beat 'em ups for one important reason:

You can map 'dash' to a button-press instead of a dpad double-tap.

Man I wish this was a regular feature in more beat 'em ups. Sometimes I want to inch my character forward or backward, but my character will be launched forward instead because so many games decide to use double-tapping for dashing purposes. This actually kept me from continuing on with Terranigma the last time I tried to get into it.

 

[Gunnar]

And yes, the grind. Ye gads the grind, it just wears the fuck out of you. Yes battles have some fun value when you're levelled well enough, but you just have to grind SO much to stay in touch with the enemies that it becomes a complete and utter burden to play.

The western release of 7th Saga fucked up the original mechanics and reduced the stat gains you were supposed to get from levelling up, while jacking up enemy stats.

 

[Falksi]

And yes, the grind. Ye gads the grind, it just wears the fuck out of you. Yes battles have some fun value when you're levelled well enough, but you just have to grind SO much to stay in touch with the enemies that it becomes a complete and utter burden to play.

The western release of 7th Saga fucked up the original mechanics and reduced the stat gains you were supposed to get from levelling up, while jacking up enemy stats.

Yeah, read that about the game too. Big shame, coz it's got so much about it I wanted to like. You can really tell, as the amount of grinding is just too much.

 

[Poseidon00]

Yeah, read that about the game too. Big shame, coz it's got so much about it I wanted to like. You can really tell, as the amount of grinding is just too much.

People tweaked those XP values back to the original for the English version long ago homie

And yeah 7th Saga is interesting and pretty cool once you use that

 

[Falksi]

Yeah, read that about the game too. Big shame, coz it's got so much about it I wanted to like. You can really tell, as the amount of grinding is just too much.

People tweaked those XP values back to the original for the English version long ago homie

And yeah 7th Saga is interesting and pretty cool once you use that

Yeah, that's why I mentioned the hack. I'll play it one day soon enough, but want to try everything in it's vanilla format first.

 

[Falksi]

Forgotten Worlds - Megadrive

The initial batch of Megadrive games released in the UK were pretty stunning. Golden Axe, Revenge of Shinobi, Ghouls N Ghosts etc. some classic titles straight off the bat. I distinctly remember Forgotten World's arriving in what I deemed the "second wave" of releases (which may or may not be true, it's just how I remember seeing it as a kid), and for a double birthday bonanza I bought this and Thunderforce 2 together. I played the bejesus out of it, and ended up writing my first gaming guide for it which made it to the tips section of C&VG, and which I then promptly and proudly showed off to all my mates. I've barely touched it in 20 years, so been looking forward to playing it again.

Straight off Forgotten World's hits you with this mix of uniqueness and quality. It plays really smooth, with a fairly unique 360 degree control system allowing you to attack in all directions. You also possess a support "bit" which can be repositioned at various points around your character to provide a defensive shield from various angles as required (not to dissimilar to R-Type). This defensive positioning adds a nice extra layer of depth, and plays a significant part in the games tactics and enjoyment. The coin-op comes with a built in rotary stick to allow for precise control of the "bit", but this rotary stick is obviously missing on home emulation. Whereas the Megadrive's "Autofire" option allows for a great simulation of the coin-op's rotary stick, allowing you to maximize your "bits" use. Thus on the Megadrive it all controls so tightly & responsively that you get the most from this aspect. Which is nice.

And despite some dated sprite graphics, this is all backed up by stage and boss designs which still remain absolutely chocco rammo jammo full of personality. Most bosses you encounter are well designed, but a couple in particular stand out as outright fucking epic. Having to collect coinage for upgrades, and having some of that coinage hidden throughout the stages, also adds a real nice extra dynamic to proceedings, and keeps things very intense as you balance the trade off between the fighting to both survive and to earn. The fact that your weapon's power increases when two players are flying close by is a real neat little touch which encourages teamplay too.

You do hit a bit of a bump in the road on the Megadrive when you reach the Egyptian level though, as it's far blander than the arcade version, and these flying Toblerones come out of nowhere to suddenly throw an element of skank into the mix. It's not game breaking though, it's just a dip. Some of the weapons however are really shit, and if you buy the wrong one it can impede a lot of the fun. Also around half of them come with nails-down-the-blackboard grating sound FX too. So if you find yourself not enjoying this, experiment with a few other weapons before you give up.

One player mode isn't super easy, but like most things in life it's certainly more fun when played hard, in fact Hard difficulty feels like Normal difficulty here. Also, if you play with 2 players you get infinite lives, which totally kills any real fun. Avoid the temptation to play with more than a limited amount of credits to get the most from it (or at least set a 2 player competition, such as most credits used or least points scored does the dishes etc.)

Forgotten Worlds still remains a real fun shooter, which offers enough different elements from your standard shooter to stand out from the crowd, and be worthy of playing. You do have to find your center with it to get the most from it, but once you've done that it's a fucking cracking little blast. I thrive on it, and it's one of the better PUNP games out there.

^They could have made a cool cheesy 80's/90's flick out of this with Dolph & JCVD in the lead roles.

Megadrive Vs Arcade Version

Now the arcade version is better than the Megadrive one in a lot of ways, but not the key ones (well, not without a rotary stick anyway). It contains 2 additional bosses and an extended level, and the graphics, sound and mostly the overall punch which the arcade delivers is a huge upgrade on the Megadrive version.

However, out of the two versions I gotta say that I still prefer the Megadrive version simply because of the control setup. Without the rotary stick, you just can't manipulate your bit (fnar, fnar) like you need to in order to be able to use it defensively, and this takes away a significant part of the fun. Also, the arcade gets brutally difficult later on, and circling + pre-shooting areas where enemies are programmed to appear seems the only way to stay alive. Which again is far harder & less fun with a traditional stick setup then with the rotary stick.

I should imagine the best version is the actual arcade cabinet with rotary stick included, but seeing as the majority of us will be playing this on home systems, I'd opt for the Megadrive version instead, as it's the most well rounded.

 

[Monk]

 

[Curious_Tongue]

Downloaded Civilisation 2 the other day. Having a fucking blast.

 

[Machocruz]

Always thought the two heroes in FW looked cool as fuck. I used to draw a lot of characters like them in my youth.

 

[Machocruz]

But I remember being hyped about renting the game when I got a Genesis and the control mechanism dampening my enthusiasm. I think I wanted something more typical, control wise.

 

[Falksi]

But I remember being hyped about renting the game when I got a Genesis and the control mechanism dampening my enthusiasm. I think I wanted something more typical, control wise.

I remember similar as a kid, but once I got the hang of them I absolutely loved it. I've been taking turns between the Megadrive & Arcade versions this past week, and the MD version was way more fun due to the auto-fire control setup.

 

[Reality]

Forgottten Worlds is fun game, but every tine I play it I'm not actually sure if I'm upgradeing my weapon or just buying something with a cool name - Works out pretty well anyway with a vague more expensive = better thing though at the end of the day.

 

[Falksi]

Aero The Acrobat 2 - SNES/Megadrive

^Generally speaking, Aero is a cunt

"You've got to have a mascot". I wonder how many bellend exec-types tried to force this bullshit idea down people's throat during the 90's? Mario wasn't loved because he was Mario & a mascot, he was loved because he starred in some spectacularly brilliant games, and he was a representation of them. Bubsy, Zool, Cool Spot, Awesome Possum etc. Behind each of these shit-flies was some nob who thought he's created the next Mario. And yes, this is where Aero the Twatobrat fits in.

It's essentially Donkey Kong Country without the high caliber polish. Another one of those games which, instead of being setup with freedom in mind to allow multitude of approaches to progress, it railroads the player into completing a sequence of one-step set pieces to progress. There's absolutely 0 intensity or excitement here, and little genuine freedom to explore anything worthwhile either. You just plod along from one set piece to another, and just have to be mindful to take out a few enemies along the way.

If you can be arsed there's collectables to collect and secrets to be found, but said items & secrets usually hold nothing of any real interest other than extra ammo, heath or lives. Which you don't really need anyway and, if you ignore these and just concentrate on finishing the level, you tend to end up with more health & lives left anyway, as the more dangerous sections tend to be found when hunting for extras. Also, again similarly to DCK, there's a reliance on leaps of faith, aforementioned set pieces, and gimmicky moments too, with off-screen hits and the death-falls plentiful of course to complete the checklist of annoying 90's tropes. Your attacks do offer something different at least, but they don't exactly set the world alight either, certainly not enough to carry the game.

And of course there's not only gimmicks, but gimmicks so "amazing" they build entire stages around them, such as snowboarding coz it's rad obviously. 4 trial and error snowboard levels are thrown at you early doors which are as bland as Nora Batty's britches, and do nothing but drag. The overall pace of the game does pick up after these levels, which is a huge relief, but despite that lift you still find yourself doing the same things copy & pasted over & over anyway. The theme of each stage changes usually every 3 levels but, despite the graphical changes, what's actually required to progress itself rarely changes at all. They would have been far better off condensing the ideas used in all 3 stages, into just 1 tighter level.

It's got some great graphics especially during the cutscenes, sound is average (different for both versions, I'd say Megadrive is the better one), and the game does deserve credit for getting the basics right such as collision detection & general feel. In fact it isn't a detestable game at all, it plays soundly. But I just found it excruciatingly dull, poorly paced and repetitive. It either sent me to sleep with boredom when the pace was slow, or sent me to sleep with repetition when the pace picked up. For me this type of game is as aggravating as one which plays shite.

Avoid.

 

[Falksi]

I can't stop playing Star Control. For all it's flaws, it's still a fucking masterpiece.

 

[Falksi]

Star Control

The first one?

Yup. I just can't put it down.

 

[Falksi]

Bahmut Lagoon - SNES

It's dragon time yet again. Most will know Bahmut of course from the Final Fantasy games, but here he is in his own little game now. This only came to my attention during the Covid lockdown, so it's my first time playing it through.

The opening few hours ease you into proceedings very nicely, with a ton of story and well crafted battles which are an absolute breeze, but which remain fun because they give you freedom to experiment & get the hang of things. The game employs a rather unique mixture of the usual JRPG turn-based party-battles, combined with Shining Force stylee overhead tactical elements & combat, and then also throws in dragons which you can "influence" to top it all off. It makes for a very interesting and distinctive battle setup overall, and it strikes an excellent balance between all of it's elements. In fact the entire game strikes this outstanding equilibrium between all it's components on the whole, not just the combat ones. You're never overwhelmed, and yet it's usually throwing a new surprise or two in there too.

The dragons themselves serve as Tamagotchi's, which you can feed and nurture. This has all types of links & tie-ins with your main characters & how both they & the dragons grow together. You feed them both equipable items & useable items, and can shape both them & your squad through this. The characters themselves have enough personality to carry the game, but the with the addition of the dragons there's a real "squad" feel to everything. By the time I'd finished playing, I really felt as if I'd gotten to know a good portion of this group of warriors & beasts.

Dragon's have their own AI with the computer deciding how each dragon attacks, and so this makes the game's strategy more of an art than a science, and gives it a bit of novel value when compared to your usual JRPG turn based combat. Also, a big gripe which I have with these style of games is that they'll give you a ton of options, but then the majority of the time it's better to ignore them, & you just choose the straight out "attack" option instead. Not here though. Here it forces you to actually use spells & techniques just as often, if not more so, than normal attacks. And I absolutely love that.

Unfortunately, like with most tactics games of this ilk, repetition starts to set in after a while and the segments between battles don't really break things up in any major way, other than adding a bite sized bit of fluff story & squad management. It is incredibly linear & lacks roleplay interaction too. I personally much prefer setups such as Shining Force 2, where the segments between tactical battles have some significant exploration involved. This has a tiny amount, but nowhere near enough for my liking.

The battle maps are decent enough, but can often suffer from having the player's starting positions being set too far away from the enemy. It just stretches combat out more than necessary, and slows the whole thing down. And with the dragon's acting so freely it can feel a bit too auto-piloty at times. It's not uncommon for you to let your dragons run free wiping out enemies, and by the time the characters have reached the fight there's barely anything left. Nor is it uncommon for even the smartest ones to position themselves awkwardly, so your foot troops can't get to the enemy either.

The story itself definitely has it's moments, but is pretty wishy-washy at it's core and in the way it unfolds too. It's decent enough like, it just isn't particularly gripping or great, and all in all by the time Chapter 9 hit I'd gone from playing the game at every chance I got, to playing it in bitesize portions every other night for a chapter at a time. There's 27 chapters in total, so a good portion of the game felt a bit "meh". But it's definitely worth playing, if only for the initial few hours, and some who take to it may fall for it enough to bare with the more ponderous elements of it.

Bahmut Lagoon essentially takes several ideas from the likes of Shining Force, Final Fantasy, and The Last Remnant, and mixes them all into one system. This alternative take and well crafted, fairly unique setup are definitely worth sampling, but whether you're able to stick all the way through the 27 chapters is another story. I found it great for having on whilst I chilled and watched a bit of porn on my phone, but I also wasn't half glad I'd some other games to break up the slow pace of it at times too. Definitely one to play as a pairing as it can drag-on.

 

[ValeVelKal]

Star Control

The first one?

Yup. I just can't put it down.

Not sure if there is a way to play it PvP online...

... but if there is, that's one of the three games were I am confident I crush everyone on the 'Dex [with Micromachine 1 and International 10x10 Checkers]

 

[Falksi]

Star Control

The first one?

Yup. I just can't put it down.

Not sure if there is a way to play it PvP online...

... but if there is, that's one of the three games were I am confident I crush everyone on the 'Dex [with Micromachine 1 and International 10x10 Checkers]

I've not seen a way, and I've never gamed online (I'm all about solo gaming or having the crack with mates).

I'm no expert at it, but I'd be up for the challenge if it's simple enough to setup.

 

[Reality]

The Netplay in the Ur-Quan Masters port of StarControl 2 is really easy to setup, but I know of nothing you can do for superior planet gravity physics Star Control 1

 

[Unkillable Cat]

There's also Star Control: Timewarp, which is a ~15-year old multiplayer version of Melee, allowing up to four players simultaneously.

Features ships from SC1, SC2, SC3 plus a few homebrew creations.

 

[Falksi]

The Addams Family - SNES

I once drew a cartoon strip where the main character was called "Frankenwank", and who's look I based on the biggest football managing charlatan of all time Schteve "McClown" McClaren. What a cunt. Anyway, compared to him the Addams family are adorable. Gomez's portrayal by the excellent Raul Julia stood out to me as a kid, but the closet I came to this game was a smattering of 5 min blasts on a mates console. Funnily enough, she had a moustache which would do Gomez proud too, so maybe that's why she liked it.

And Gomez's tash is one of the few saving graces with this game. Is it dire? No. It has some cool graphics which characterize the Addams family very nicely, and Gomez himself has quite a nice, bouncy feel to him. He does control a bit sloppy mind, but I've played much worse. The stages look nice visually, but in terms of what they actually contain they are pretty bland overall, with little craft or stand out areas either. But fuck me, there is some absolute arse-fistingly painful level and enemy design to overcome to enjoy any of those few saving graces.

The devs have saturated the stages with a ton of "trap" style setups, designed to lure you into an action, then having something else punish you for that action. It's a bit Dark Souls-esq, but because the game is played at quite a fast pace you don't get really time to see the traps, you just react. So this means you have to essentially die a few times learning a "trap", move to the next section and have a go at that one. That was part of gaming back then, but the good games spread these setups out evenly, whereas this annoying fucker crams these parts together so much that it makes the game a huge chore overall, as you are constantly getting slapped down.

For example one enemy will run at you on the ground, so instinctively you'll jump to avoid them and possibly go to land on their head to kill them. But as you jump another enemy from out of nowhere swoops in at a fast pace from above to hit you. It's really fucking cheap shit. Especially when it's combined with stuff like icey floors in the kitchen level, where suicidal penguins come at you full pelt, and the combo of a slippy floor & spikes above your head offer little room for maneuver. The designers were clearly aware of this, as checkpoints are a plenty, continues are infinite, and you start with 5 lives. But that doesn't stop the process of having to inch your way forward constantly being any less tedious. Gamers can live with gitting gud if there's enough bait to lure them, but there simply isn't that here.

It also feels as if it was originally designed to be an action platformer too, as things seem to flow way more naturally when you possess throwing balls or a sword. And there's some areas which you simply have to take the hit, which just doesn't work in games like these. And again I think the devs knew this, as the inclusion of lots of 1-ups & hidden invincibility pickups seem to be an admission of "fuck, this is little fun to play. We best give the player an easier route out".

Despite it getting a few minor things right, the stage & enemy design just kill any attempt you get to find any real rhythm. Overall it's a prime example of poor development, and also a great example of one of the licensed games from the era which helped choke the system's brilliance. Some may say it's mediocre, I think it's shitter than that.