Right to Mod or Cheat Act?

[Chippy]

I recently played Middle Earth: Shadows of War. They stated I was buying a service not a game and that we had no right to alter it. Then I started another playthrough of Knight's Tale and noticed savegame editing is no longer possible. Now I know I'm cheating to want to remove Cast Stigma on Mordred because the skill reset potion doesn't reset all skill points. Now that should be my choice right? Not the developer/dungeon master.

And as for games like Middle Earth, well they're just retarded and you need savegame editors to make them playable. Whatever happened to them anyway...

Herein follows the Codexian mantra whereby all players who edit games upon the alter of cheating are deemed guilty of faggotry most dire, and an unrepentant lustful greed for skill beyond their ken.

 

[rojay]

The what now?

 

[processdaemon]

There's nothing inherently wrong with it, I just think it's usually better to do it after your first run so you can be totally sure which mechanics/ design choices are useless jank and which ones start making sense with more context later in the game. At the end of the day though if it's a single player game then do what you want.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

What you do in the piracy of your own single player game is no one's business but your own. But good luck if you're implying it needs legal protection because even if you got it Ubisoft would implement a multiplayer element like the ghosts in Souls games just to claim it's online and force you into the cash shop to cheat.

 

[Chippy]

The what now?

There was an American state where the farmers started the 'Right to Repair' bill that allowed them to repair their tractors without being rammed in the ass by the manufacturers who had sole access to the computer software that paired up with the onboard computers on the tractors. The argument being that they owned it, and it didn't come with a service that I thought was somewhat comparable to loot boxes and the developer telling you / preventing you from altering their game.

I think the software on the tractors was available, but it's so expensive it isn't worth it.

 

[MerchantKing]

My PC, my rules.

 

[rojay]

The what now?

There was an American state where the farmers started the 'Right to Repair' bill that allowed them to repair their tractors without being rammed in the ass by the manufacturers who had sole access to the computer software that paired up with the onboard computers on the tractors. The argument being that they owned it, and it didn't come with a service that I thought was somewhat comparable to loot boxes and the developer telling you / preventing you from altering their game.

I think the software on the tractors was available, but it's so expensive it isn't worth it.

Understood now, and thank you. I see the analogy. And yeah, it's a lot easier to pirate a game and get away with it than to get the John Deere software, but the principle is the same.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

The what now?

There was an American state where the farmers started the 'Right to Repair' bill that allowed them to repair their tractors without being rammed in the ass by the manufacturers who had sole access to the computer software that paired up with the onboard computers on the tractors. The argument being that they owned it, and it didn't come with a service that I thought was somewhat comparable to loot boxes and the developer telling you / preventing you from altering their game.

I think the software on the tractors was available, but it's so expensive it isn't worth it.

Understood now, and thank you. I see the analogy. And yeah, it's a lot easier to pirate a game and get away with it than to get the John Deere software, but the principle is the same.

You're going to really struggle to compare a vital piece of work machinery costing tens of thousands to 50 monies on steam being lost years later when Capcom install enigma. One is easy to understand and support (right to repair) and the other is all sorts of weird bullshit where corner cases are going to cause so many issues. Steam needs to implement installing older versions from the default installer option and a lot of these problems would be dealt with.

 

[vitellus]

if you're playing solo, who gives two shits and a bucket of piss if you cheat? back in the 80s level grinding was sort of a feature to help pad out the hours...forty fucking years later and a thousand games in my backlog later, i don't have the time left on earth to just grind up some levels to finish a game, i'll skip it with cheat engine. if i beat a game once legitimately, then fuck it i can cheat from the start on the second round because fuck that boss that gave me hell the first time.


although, if you're cheating in multiplayer, you're a gutless faggot who needs to bite a curb.

 

[rojay]

The what now?

There was an American state where the farmers started the 'Right to Repair' bill that allowed them to repair their tractors without being rammed in the ass by the manufacturers who had sole access to the computer software that paired up with the onboard computers on the tractors. The argument being that they owned it, and it didn't come with a service that I thought was somewhat comparable to loot boxes and the developer telling you / preventing you from altering their game.

I think the software on the tractors was available, but it's so expensive it isn't worth it.

Understood now, and thank you. I see the analogy. And yeah, it's a lot easier to pirate a game and get away with it than to get the John Deere software, but the principle is the same.

You're going to really struggle to compare a vital piece of work machinery costing tens of thousands to 50 monies on steam being lost years later when Capcom install enigma. One is easy to understand and support (right to repair) and the other is all sorts of weird bullshit where corner cases are going to cause so many issues. Steam needs to implement installing older versions from the default installer option and a lot of these problems would be dealt with.

What do you own when you buy a tractor if the software necessary to repair it belongs to someone else? What do you own when you buy a printer? What do you actually own when you buy a game? I'm legit asking, because I'm old enough to still have actual physical discs for some stuff and there's no doubt I own it and can install it on any computer on which I can get it to run.

tl;dr: I haven't read the EULA.

 

[MerchantKing]

The what now?

There was an American state where the farmers started the 'Right to Repair' bill that allowed them to repair their tractors without being rammed in the ass by the manufacturers who had sole access to the computer software that paired up with the onboard computers on the tractors. The argument being that they owned it, and it didn't come with a service that I thought was somewhat comparable to loot boxes and the developer telling you / preventing you from altering their game.

I think the software on the tractors was available, but it's so expensive it isn't worth it.

Understood now, and thank you. I see the analogy. And yeah, it's a lot easier to pirate a game and get away with it than to get the John Deere software, but the principle is the same.

You're going to really struggle to compare a vital piece of work machinery costing tens of thousands to 50 monies on steam being lost years later when Capcom install enigma. One is easy to understand and support (right to repair) and the other is all sorts of weird bullshit where corner cases are going to cause so many issues. Steam needs to implement installing older versions from the default installer option and a lot of these problems would be dealt with.

What do you own when you buy a tractor if the software necessary to repair it belongs to someone else? What do you own when you buy a printer? What do you actually own when you buy a game? I'm legit asking, because I'm old enough to still have actual physical discs for some stuff and there's no doubt I own it and can install it on any computer on which I can get it to run.

tl;dr: I haven't read the EULA.

EULA has never been upheld by any court.

 

[Dr1f7]

based cheaters

 

[Butter]

Don't play corporate slop. If it has a EULA, throw it in the trash.

 

[OSK]

Don't play corporate slop. If it has a EULA, throw it in the trash.

This is especially true for your operating system.

 

[Glop_dweller]

I have seen audio speakers sold on the fact that a specific audio engineer had tweaked the internal EQ; signed their name to them. If someone later changes the internal [normally inaccessible] settings... the speakers still bear the engineer's signature, and implies that it is they who are responsible for those [now altered] level settings.

I have seen a —screensaver— that forbids modding of it for much the same reason given above; that if any modded version of it were seen publicly, with sub-par art changes, it would reflect badly on them and the quality of their product. because it would be attributed to them alone. No one is going to assume it to be an aftermarket modified product.

Some user modifications of products will change the feature/functionality of it such that it then breaks the developer's prior agreements (with other companies, estates, and individuals); agreements that likely allowed them to make the product in the first place. An example for instance: I know of two particular commercial game editors that export similar playable games; but only one can export a standalone executable; the other one is a licensed D&D IP product that requires the editor in order to play the exported game. If it were modded to export a standalone (or browser based) game, it would break their D&D license.

Some games are only salable in certain countries after compliance with their local laws. A user mod that undoes this compliance then bypasses those local laws —potentially causing legal hassle for the developer. So what if they got sued or fined for this, and the game made non-profitable afterwards because of it, or if they lose that country's good-will acceptance for their next title?

A game might have received money in return for including an advertisement; unauthorized mods that remove this ad would then break the developer's agreement, and cheat the advertiser who subsidized them... they won't likely make that offer again.

Obviously mods that break multiplayer mode by allowing the user to cheat are damaging to the brand and game experience for legitimate users. There are myriad reasons that user modding should not be taken for granted as some sort of "user rights", especially if the user must agree not to, before installing; they take them at their word —and it sounds like a lot of people's word is worthless by their own admission.

This is also what makes those companies that do allow, encourage (, or just turn a blind eye towards) user modding to be so special (and welcome). Those that do usually do so with a EULA, and if it's not respected by the users then they might rightly stop allowing, encouraging, or turning a blind eye in the future.
____________
TLDR: Don't bite the hand that feeds, and don't shit where you eat.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

What do you own when you buy a tractor if the software necessary to repair it belongs to someone else? What do you own when you buy a printer? What do you actually own when you buy a game? I'm legit asking, because I'm old enough to still have actual physical discs for some stuff and there's no doubt I own it and can install it on any computer on which I can get it to run.

Perception is the difference. Cars are big visible things most people expect to be fixable at any random garage you take it to. Software is a total mystery to most people and they don't expect to be able to fix it if it breaks. Right to repair is about a company making it more difficult to do something you used to be able to do in your own garage with minimal problem. You bought a book, the parts and you fixed your vehicle. These days you try to do that and it will lock the vehicle down entirely and refuse to start it. There isn't the same expectation with software.

 

[vitellus]

There isn't the same expectation with software.

not yet. law makers don't give a shit that we don't own anything anymore, and that the subscription model has taken off. there are motherfucking subscriptions for heated car seats nowadays. how long until microsoft starts asking for a subscription fee just to use the fucking search function. this is why the next rig i build i'm going linux, even though for me that's like learning how to ride a bike in middle age as i was never a programmer or coder, but have a pretty deepening interest in disassociating myself with more consumer oriented items.

 

[Bastardchops]

I recently played Middle Earth: Shadows of War. They stated I was buying a service not a game and that we had no right to alter it. Then I started another playthrough of Knight's Tale and noticed savegame editing is no longer possible. Now I know I'm cheating to want to remove Cast Stigma on Mordred because the skill reset potion doesn't reset all skill points. Now that should be my choice right? Not the developer/dungeon master.

And as for games like Middle Earth, well they're just retarded and you need savegame editors to make them playable. Whatever happened to them anyway...

Herein follows the Codexian mantra whereby all players who edit games upon the alter of cheating are deemed guilty of faggotry most dire, and an unrepentant lustful greed for skill beyond their ken.

This is why Steam changed all games from ownership to service based.

 

[Bastardchops]

This was the good thing about physical media. The developers had to get it right the first time. Now they can do endless changes.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

There isn't the same expectation with software.

not yet. law makers don't give a shit that we don't own anything anymore, and that the subscription model has taken off. there are motherfucking subscriptions for heated car seats nowadays. how long until microsoft starts asking for a subscription fee just to use the fucking search function. this is why the next rig i build i'm going linux, even though for me that's like learning how to ride a bike in middle age as i was never a programmer or coder, but have a pretty deepening interest in disassociating myself with more consumer oriented items.

Proton has done a lot to make Linux a viable OS for gamers but as an actual OS it's completely useable for everything but gaming and has been for a long time.

This was the good thing about physical media. The developers had to get it right the first time. Now they can do endless changes.

Space it takes up starts to be an issue. Most people don't have enough money for a full room dedicated to old software like youtubers do.

 

[JarlFrank]

based cheaters

The solution to playing From Software games with mods or cheats is to just set it to offline mode.

They will also become better games because you don't have stupid player messages everywhere, it becomes a true solitary experience that never takes you out of the game world.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

They will also become better games because you don't have stupid player messages everywhere, it becomes a true solitary experience that never takes you out of the game world.

Except for the player messages and ghosts From bake into the game using the multiplayer systems.

 

[Ladonna]

Where it started...

 

[JarlFrank]

They will also become better games because you don't have stupid player messages everywhere, it becomes a true solitary experience that never takes you out of the game world.

Except for the player messages and ghosts From bake into the game using the multiplayer systems.

... did you actually read my post?

None of this appears in the game if you play in offline mode. Playing in offline mode is as easy as clicking on an option in the main menu.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

None of this appears in the game if you play in offline mode. Playing in offline mode is as easy as clicking on an option in the main menu.

Yes I read your post and I know more about these games than you do. There are developer messages in the game by default and even ghosts the developers put in. You can find one in 2-1 where you have to open a switch once you get past the dogs/fat official room. A ghost appears and uses the switch to alert you to it even in offline mode.