Ringlorn Saga - action RPG inspired by Japanese PC classics from zwanzig_zwoelf

[Infinitron]

Tracklist:
01. Main Menu (00:00)
02. Holy Ground (03:28)
03. Field (05:19)
04. Delna Village (9:05)
05. Graveyard (11:56)
06. Tower (14:47)
07. Battle I (18:15)
08. Dungeon (19:46)
09. Mansion (23:41)
10. Battle II (27:41)
11. Petal Village (30:42)
12. Desecrated Temple (32:43)
13. Key (35:44)
14. Castle (37:17)
15. Battle III (42:01)
16. Tavern Song (47:17)
17. Ending (49:22)
18. Field [Arrange] (51:46)

 

[MrRichard999]

Just got done playing this game and had a genuine good time with it! Definitely recommend it!

 

[KDcross]

The name is coincidentally very similar to a Sega Saturn trpg called Riglord Saga (Blazing Heroes in US, Mystaria in EU). It's kind of fugly, but it had a cool system where skills were learned based on what options you frequently used in combat, kind of like SaGa.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

The name is coincidentally very similar to a Sega Saturn trpg called Riglord Saga (Blazing Heroes in US, Mystaria in EU). It's kind of fugly, but it had a cool system where skills were learned based on what options you frequently used in combat, kind of like SaGa.

I'm yet to play this one, but it's been on my to-play list for a while. I do want to create a SaGa-esque game someday.

 

[Infinitron]

zwanzig_zwoelf knows how to play the game.

https://www.pcgamer.com/ukranian-in...n-the-80s-pc-game-that-pioneered-action-rpgs/

Ukranian indie Ringlorn Saga puts a fresh twist on the '80s PC game that pioneered action-RPGs​

Bringing groundbreaking Japanese action-RPG Hydlide into the 21st century.

The inspiration for retro-styled modern games can in theory come from almost anywhere, although in practice if a game's not citing a NES classic as its main influence then it'll probably be trying to recapture the essence of some Super Nintendo game, instead. There's a good reason for this tight focus on such a narrow area of gaming history: these styles are popular, practical, and amongst gamers of a certain age they come with a healthy dose of preorder-encouraging nostalgia baked in. It just makes good sense.

So it was something of a surprise to see Ringlorn Saga appear on Steam. It's an 8-bit styled adventure inspired by T&E Soft's ancient computer RPG Hydlide: a game that isn't popular, practical, or preorder-encouraging at all.

Hydlide debuted on the PC-88 in 1984, with a flurry of ports to just about every Japanese computer format available coming the year after. Like several games from that early and experimental era Hydlide was a true trailblazer, even though it had limited international impact at the time and has received little positive English-language attention in the years since. To give some idea of the state of the wider action-RPG market it was competing in back then: there wasn't one. Hydlide is regarded as one of the first games in the genre ever. This is pre-Ys ARPG-ing from a time when games were just as likely to be typed in by hand from a magazine listing as they were loaded from a cassette or (if you were lucky) floppy disk.

But what does any of that mean for Ringlorn Saga in 2022—being new yet deeply retro, based on a game few people have fond memories of, that has been outdone in every area in the decades since?

It actually means Ringlorn Saga feels surprisingly fresh amongst its modern peers. Even though it's drawing on design concepts created almost forty years ago, its small scope and simple rules naturally coalesce into a densely packed world filled with the sorts of tantalising mysteries more expansive RPG overworlds often lack.

Each tentative step in a new area or dark cave is just as likely to lead me to a curious new problem as it is an untimely death: mysterious statues dot the landscape, dark caverns must be lit by a lantern sourced from elsewhere, and the key to an imposing tower needs to be unearthed using tools I haven't found yet.

The landscape little prince Gerhard treks through is packed full of slimes, spiders, sorcerers, and all sorts of other monsters trying to halt my progress. Just like in Hydlide these monsters are attacked simply by running into them, and also just like in Hydlide I'm able to switch between attack-boosting and defence-enhancing fighting modes at will, the best mode for the fight at hand depending on my current circumstances, skill, and/or bravery.

Ringlorn Saga then expands upon this old framework with a simple trio of switchable attack types—slash, bash, stab—each one more effective against certain enemy types than others. To keep this new idea in line with the '80s-like experience that surrounds it I can only learn which attack will work best against an particular enemy type by either speaking to the game's tiny handful of friendly NPCs and listening to their advice, or using a bit of good old-fashioned experimentation and then remembering (or writing down) the results.

But as well-handled as these elements are, adding to someone else's old work can only take even the very best new games so far. Thankfully Ringlorn Saga seems to realise this and is definitely not like Hydlide in plenty of important ways too. It's generously sprinkled with changes and additions that suggest the developers spent some serious time analysing what didn't work in the original game just as much as what did.

Some of these alterations are simply a case of showing some basic consideration for the human playing the game. Ringlorn Saga mercifully doesn't open with its hero dumped in the middle of a field surrounded by enemies that can quickly kill him off, and it also offers more than a single screen's worth of explanatory text too. It's possible to manually save and quit at any time and in any place, and as dying only takes a small portion Gerhard's total XP rather than all his progress, there are no irritating "Wait, I didn't realise I hadn't saved for an hour" snags along the way even when I'm wiped out by a roaming Deathknight.

Inauthentically un-retro? Yes—and thank goodness for that.

But other changes channel forgotten ideas or even the technical limitations found in other '80s games, such as monster movement. Enemies can only move one tile at a time, and are locked to a simple grid. They also always turn to face their next direction of travel before they move. It's a subtle yet hyper-authentic detail that sparks new strategies in the moment: if I know where they're going to move next, then I also know when it's safe to sneak around the back of a monster I wouldn't survive a fight with—and that means I can (with a bit of luck) swipe precious treasures and key items from dangerous dungeons much earlier than I "should" be able to. It's a freedom that allows me to make my own story—to play a role—to a certain extent, to explore this little world on my own terms instead of having to accept a single, safe, and more strictly enforced pre-prepared route.

Role playing surfaces in another unexpected way too: the attack/defend battle system doubles up as a simple narrative tool. If I try to talk to a harmless villager while Gerhard's in attack mode they'll refuse to say much of anything, because from their point of view an armoured man is aggressively pointing his sword at them. It's the sort of small but significant feature that's been smoothed away over time in the name of convenience, even though it's logical and enriching in the moment.

And for once it really is worth being polite to NPCs, as almost everything they say is either a helpful clue to a larger puzzle or a piece of information that'll help me live longer. A stronger sword waiting in a place hinted at in a bard's song, the sad story of a graveyard ghost slowly pieced together over several conversations with multiple people, the location of someone who might have the item I'm looking for.

Hydlide deserves homages like Ringlorn Saga, someone bringing a dusty old legend back into the light even if only for a short while, but more importantly gaming deserves homages like Ringlorn Saga. Drawing upon a wider range of influences than the well-trod Castlevanias and Zeldas can lead to something new and surprising to play in the present, and gives retro gaming value beyond mere nostalgic reference spotting. By exploring games like Hydlide andRinglorn Saga, we gain fresh insight into a familiar era, one whose narrative isn't quite as set in stone or as well-mined as we perhaps think it is.

We just need brave developers aware enough of gaming's broader history to show us the way.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

It's out on GOG in case you're allergic to Steam.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Been a while since I posted anything about this game.

It's out on PlayStation 4 in case you're one of those console peasants. Xbox and Switch versions aren't planned at this point, but that might change in the future.

Japanese localization is out on PC in case you speak moonrunes. It will be added to the PlayStation 4 version.

Also, the game sold 1500+ copies, and thus recouped its development and localization costs.

I'm slowly working on a spin-off, but work happens at a slow pace as I'm finishing my work on SKALD, and the latter is my top priority. Ringlorn Saga Gaiden is inspired by the Temple of Rebirth dungeon of the original game and focuses on possession mechanics and unique abilities of different bodies, e.g. possessing a bat lets you fly over rivers, possessing a vampire makes outdoor areas hurt you, etc. Here are a few sneak peeks at the game before the Steam page is up.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

The Steam page for Ringlorn Saga Gaiden is up.

 

[Kedar]

The Steam page for Ringlorn Saga Gaiden is up.

Looks great, wishlisted.

 

[Kedar]

Hey zwanzig_zwoelf I just finished the game. It was great and exactly what I needed right now! It's the first game I played and completed this year as I had a bit of a break from gaming.

Before I move on to the bonus dungeon, I am wondering if you could tell me if there's any use for the following items:

Spoiler

Necklace and Hero's Ring.

Also, I understand that Medicine works the same way it does in Hydlide, but is there any special use for it?

Thanks!

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Before I move on to the bonus dungeon, I am wondering if you could tell me if there's any use for the following items

Necklace bumps your defense, Hero's Ring slightly bumps your attack power / block chance / health regen speed / chance to get a damage bonus.

Medicine works similarly to Hydlide, and there's no additional use for it.

 

[Kedar]

Before I move on to the bonus dungeon, I am wondering if you could tell me if there's any use for the following items

Necklace bumps your defense, Hero's Ring slightly bumps your attack power / block chance / health regen speed / chance to get a damage bonus.

Medicine works similarly to Hydlide, and there's no additional use for it.

Thank you! I'm happy to report that I just completed the bonus dungeon.

In general, there are very few things that I wasn't a fan of, namely:

• For a game that promises not to waste the player's time, the way Heal spell worked was pretty time wastey.
• I didn't appreciate stumbling around the overworld before accidentally bumping into the buried key. This is the only part of the quest that wasn't very intuitive for me. I probably missed a clue somewhere.
• If it weren't for this thread, I wouldn't know/remember that there's a bonus dungeon after finishing the main story. Perhaps it would make sense to mention it in the ending text or move the option from the New Game sub-menu into the main menu.

A full list of the positives would be much longer, but I'll mention just a few:

• I loved the feeling of exploration. Aside from the obvious inspiration in Hydlide, it reminded me of how the world was structured in the first two King's Quest games.
• The tavern tales were great and helped flesh out the lore.
• Speaking of the lore, it was quite nice, and I can't wait to see how it will be expanded in Ringlorn Saga Gaiden.
• Aside from the part with the buried key, I enjoyed the clear goals despite the lack of hand-holding.
• Adding to the above, I found the pacing to be top-notch.
• I was very impressed with the design of the combat system, which was much more engaging than in Hydlide while retaining a similar spirit. Different attack types were a simple but brilliant addition.
• The dialogue had a lot of personality and charm.
• I greatly enjoyed how the bonus dungeon introduced a whole new mechanic.

I think I'll stop there for now. What a gem this game is! Can't wait for Gaiden.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

For a game that promises not to waste the player's time, the way Heal spell worked was pretty time wastey.

Only if you cast it, stop, and let it do its thing. I thought that players would figure out that casting it at the beginning of a battle and letting health regenerate during it, then only stopping if necessary.

I didn't appreciate stumbling around the overworld before accidentally bumping into the buried key. This is the only part of the quest that wasn't very intuitive for me. I probably missed a clue somewhere.

The bard has a tale that clues you in on where to find the key.

If it weren't for this thread, I wouldn't know/remember that there's a bonus dungeon after finishing the main story. Perhaps it would make sense to mention it in the ending text or move the option from the New Game sub-menu into the main menu.

Thanks for the feedback. It was designed and added as a bonus about 3-4 weeks before the game came out, so there was no time to make it even more obvious.

Can't wait for Gaiden.

If you liked the bonus dungeon, I think you'll enjoy Gaiden a lot -- it takes the basic concept of 'kill enemy become enemy' and fleshes it out to work as a standalone game with its own story.

 

[Kedar]

Only if you cast it, stop, and let it do its thing. I thought that players would figure out that casting it at the beginning of a battle and letting health regenerate during it, then only stopping if necessary.

That's what I did, I only cast it if there were a lot of enemies on the screen, but it often happened that I beat them all and still had a lot of health left to regenerate. It just felt wrong to leave the screen in such instances.

Also, the game sold 1500+ copies, and thus recouped its development and localization costs.

If you don't mind me asking, how long was the development?

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

If you don't mind me asking, how long was the development?

About 4 months to make the game, and about 3 weeks to run the last batch of tests and publish it.

The PlayStation 4 port took about 3 days.

That's what I did, I only cast it if there were a lot of enemies on the screen, but it often happened that I beat them all and still had a lot of health left to regenerate. It just felt wrong to leave the screen in such instances.

Noted. It was designed in a way to avoid situations like these, but this feedback should be useful for Gaiden and Book Two.

 

[Tyranicon]

If you don't mind me asking, how long was the development?

About 4 months to make the game, and about 3 weeks to run the last batch of tests and publish it.

The PlayStation 4 port took about 3 days.

That's what I did, I only cast it if there were a lot of enemies on the screen, but it often happened that I beat them all and still had a lot of health left to regenerate. It just felt wrong to leave the screen in such instances.

Noted. It was designed in a way to avoid situations like these, but this feedback should be useful for Gaiden and Book Two.

You work fast.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

If you don't mind me asking, how long was the development?

About 4 months to make the game, and about 3 weeks to run the last batch of tests and publish it.

The PlayStation 4 port took about 3 days.

That's what I did, I only cast it if there were a lot of enemies on the screen, but it often happened that I beat them all and still had a lot of health left to regenerate. It just felt wrong to leave the screen in such instances.

Noted. It was designed in a way to avoid situations like these, but this feedback should be useful for Gaiden and Book Two.

You work fast.

The original Ys took 5 months to make. It was one of the challenges for this project -- to build something interesting in the same amount of time or less.

 

[Kalarion]

I bought it on PS4 yesterday, and beat it after about 8 hours. I had a blast.

CryptRat, Grauken and Kedar already said everything I would have as far as pros/cons go. I just want to reiterate 2 points: multiple attack types was indeed an excellent decision that made each screen more engaging (and sometimes more annoying ), and as someone who normally hates anything even close to real-time combat these days (I can't stand EotB and LoG etc, for instance), I wasn't at all perturbed by the bump combat in this one. The enemy movement/reaction speed were perfect for someone like me to feel comfortable learning my attack patterns and enemy movements.

I never bothered getting the Hero's Ring (I wasn't about to backtrack all the way from the castle to buy it once I had the money), and I never figured out the effect of the necklace myself. So I'm glad those were answered. As someone who never played Hydlide I'm curious what the medicine does however? I just assumed it was a free rez-in-place rather than a teleport back to Adele, but I never died after picking them up, so never confirmed. I also never got the final spell (I assume it's learned ~level 20, I finished at level 19), but I assume it was some kind of screen-clearing Armageddon-like and figured I didn't need it to beat the game.

I haven't done the bonus dungeon, I'll give it a whirl tomorrow.

zwanzig_zwoelf you are an absolute gem. Live a long, productive life please.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

I also never got the final spell (I assume it's learned ~level 20, I finished at level 19), but I assume it was some kind of screen-clearing Armageddon-like and figured I didn't need it to beat the game.

The final spell (Flash) deals stab damage to all enemies on screen and stuns them, and yes, you learn it at level 20. It ended up being weaker than most people expected, but this spell and Blade Dance were more of a way to clear the screen from annoying riff-raff.

The magic itself is entirely optional, some players managed to beat the game without getting it.

As someone who never played Hydlide I'm curious what the medicine does however? I just assumed it was a free rez-in-place rather than a teleport back to Adele, but I never died after picking them up, so never confirmed.

Indeed, it revives you on the spot with half of your max HP whenever you're supposed to die.

I haven't done the bonus dungeon, I'll give it a whirl tomorrow.

I hope you like it because the spin-off is inspired by the bonus dungeon and body-snatching is the core mechanic of this game. I just hope its experimental nature won't scare people away from the sequel.

 

[Kalarion]

OK, I finished the bonus dungeon. The mechanic of "become your victim" is cool, but there is a real annoyance, and potentially a problem. Also some minor issues for thought. I'm not sure how to deal with them without taking away a big part of the fun. Something for you to worry about

Climbing the victim hierarchy was a fun exercise. Trying to plan out which monster was going to be my next skinsuit was engaging, and knowing I'd be locked into whatever attack form it had available gave a pleasurable additional tension and sense of anticipation. I must say I was slightly disappointed by both Vampires and Floating Eyes; I thought they'd be stronger given the trouble I'd sometimes had with them! It was also a neat touch to have Zombies, Skeletons and Deathknights come equipped with weapons. Inventory made getting to the bottom floor a bit more enjoyable, trying to hunt for a host with the right key to unlock the current level's stairs down.

In this scenario's case I (and I assume anyone else who played the campaign) was helped by a thorough understanding of what monsters were vulnerable to which attack types. And here is a potential issue; going into a game like this virgin (assuming the same base mechanics as Ringlorn are largely kept intact) is going to be a lot more annoying if we don't already have some idea which victims will (1) let us climb the ladder of power and (2) are also susceptible to our particular attack type. What was to me, with meta knowledge, an enjoyable thought exercise, could become a routine marked by frustration and irritation, with increased danger of being kicked to the bottom of the ladder (by dying and returning to my base form). The only fix that comes immediately to mind is to make the base form fairly functional on its own; that way death isn't quite so crushing as coming back to the body of a lowly slime.

The second annoyance, and potentially a big problem in a full game, was accidental body switches. I can't tell you how teeth-grindingly upsetting it was to have my lovely Deathknight host and then mistakenly or thoughtlessly slash a Blue Slime! I didn't always drop that precipitously far (once I accidentally switched my Floating Eye for a Red Spider, for instance; not so bad, but still!), but every time it happened it caused anger and lowered my desire to play. That's with a fairly simple, 4-floor dungeon, and a relatively straightforward power hierarchy! Extrapolate that over an entire campaign, with a much more complicated interplay between host attack types and available victims, and the fact that most new players won't have meta knowledge at first... Thankfully in this case climbing back up the ladder was a fairly simple exercise, especially since we had some extra power from levelling. But it was always irritating to fall, and (after the first 1-2 falls) time-consuming to get back up. I decided on one fall (not a death in this case, thankfully), for instance, that if my little Red Slime body had a Bash attack than I could by God kill a Skeleton, jump a dozen rungs and fuck the rest of the ladder! And I did. It took several dozen bumps. Ugh.

None of which is meant to detract from my initial statement that the mechanic and its possible applications were fun and cool. I look forward to playing Gaiden. I just wanted to put forth some food for thought regarding scaling issues from a dungeon to a full-fledged game.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

OK, I finished the bonus dungeon. The mechanic of "become your victim" is cool, but there is a real annoyance, and potentially a problem. Also some minor issues for thought. I'm not sure how to deal with them without taking away a big part of the fun. Something for you to worry about

Climbing the victim hierarchy was a fun exercise. Trying to plan out which monster was going to be my next skinsuit was engaging, and knowing I'd be locked into whatever attack form it had available gave a pleasurable additional tension and sense of anticipation. I must say I was slightly disappointed by both Vampires and Floating Eyes; I thought they'd be stronger given the trouble I'd sometimes had with them! It was also a neat touch to have Zombies, Skeletons and Deathknights come equipped with weapons. Inventory made getting to the bottom floor a bit more enjoyable, trying to hunt for a host with the right key to unlock the current level's stairs down.

In this scenario's case I (and I assume anyone else who played the campaign) was helped by a thorough understanding of what monsters were vulnerable to which attack types. And here is a potential issue; going into a game like this virgin (assuming the same base mechanics as Ringlorn are largely kept intact) is going to be a lot more annoying if we don't already have some idea which victims will (1) let us climb the ladder of power and (2) are also susceptible to our particular attack type. What was to me, with meta knowledge, an enjoyable thought exercise, could become a routine marked by frustration and irritation, with increased danger of being kicked to the bottom of the ladder (by dying and returning to my base form). The only fix that comes immediately to mind is to make the base form fairly functional on its own; that way death isn't quite so crushing as coming back to the body of a lowly slime.

The second annoyance, and potentially a big problem in a full game, was accidental body switches. I can't tell you how teeth-grindingly upsetting it was to have my lovely Deathknight host and then mistakenly or thoughtlessly slash a Blue Slime! I didn't always drop that precipitously far (once I accidentally switched my Floating Eye for a Red Spider, for instance; not so bad, but still!), but every time it happened it caused anger and lowered my desire to play. That's with a fairly simple, 4-floor dungeon, and a relatively straightforward power hierarchy! Extrapolate that over an entire campaign, with a much more complicated interplay between host attack types and available victims, and the fact that most new players won't have meta knowledge at first... Thankfully in this case climbing back up the ladder was a fairly simple exercise, especially since we had some extra power from levelling. But it was always irritating to fall, and (after the first 1-2 falls) time-consuming to get back up. I decided on one fall (not a death in this case, thankfully), for instance, that if my little Red Slime body had a Bash attack than I could by God kill a Skeleton, jump a dozen rungs and fuck the rest of the ladder! And I did. It took several dozen bumps. Ugh.

None of which is meant to detract from my initial statement that the mechanic and its possible applications were fun and cool. I look forward to playing Gaiden. I just wanted to put forth some food for thought regarding scaling issues from a dungeon to a full-fledged game.

Indeed, I remember players complaining about the accidental 'devolving', and I am aware that the bonus dungeon requires some meta knowledge, and has a more unforgiving flow that won't translate well to the full game as-is.

Both problems have been fixed in Gaiden at this point with a handful of changes:

1. Bodies unlock new abilities as your soul levels up, which means that 'devolving' may not always mean certain death / irritation from having to climb up again. They may also have special powers, e.g. Bats can fly over rivers.
2. Bodies can have multiple attack types, e.g. Skeletons / Knights / Demons have the full trio of attack types.
3. Each body has a 'Body' stat, which determines how many lives it can take before it deteriorates and your soul moves to a new body.
4. If your body dies, you lose XP, but instead of returning to the starting point, your soul leaves the dead body and loses HP over time and your next goal is to possess a new body, and you can possess anyone except for bosses. This can be used as a quick way to ditch a body you don't like and ascend the hierarchy much quicker if you don't mind losing XP with a heavier penalty compared to the original.

Things may change over time, as I may come up with better solutions to these problems, but thanks for voicing your opinion -- I'd like to make sure that Gaiden is fun to play while being a unique game.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Posted a postmortem on my blog, along with some sad news related to Gaiden and good news related to Book Two.

 

[Nutmeg]

Posted a postmortem on my blog, along with some sad news related to Gaiden and good news related to Book Two.

Hang in there buddy. Pivots are always annoying but they are a natural part of the creative process.

 

[Arthandas]

I'm keeping it warm on my wishlist, I'll get to it as soon as I thin out my backlog at least a little bit.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Coming to Switch on July 25: https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/ringlorn-saga-switch/

Gaiden is back on track as well.