Rock Paper Shotgun doesn't play Skullgirls (but talks about how sexist it is)

[Multi-headed Cow]

Frances McDormand

 

[Gurkog]

Meh i have some experience with the male version of sexual harassment.

I remember one job just out of highschool I was working with 2 girls and they would constantly be saying to me, "you know what they say about guys with big feet(or hands)", or small dick comments and giggle together. I finally got them to stop buy asking them if they want to see my dick or not. They seemed offended, but at least they stopped the sexual harassment. They weren't the only ones to make those kinds of comments. I guess being a tall guy is similar to big chested woman, or not.

I had a lot of women stare at me when I was 250 lb of muscle.. but at 6'4" I was not bulky. So ya, guys don't have to be bulky to be gazy. it was only creepy when the chicks looked crazy or fugly, which I can imagine is the same for women.

 

[Dr Tomo]

It's not that some women wouldn't like Duke Nukem or the God of War guy. Some would - there are examples in this thread of media directed at women using big, muscular men. But big muscular shirtless video game characters are designed that way because they appeal to some men, not because they appeal to some women.

So essentially what you're saying is that women are smart enough to not view unrealistic cartoon characters as role models but men all secretly want to be buff bodybuilder frat boys who sleep around

Duke Nukem/God of War really wasn't meant to appeal to women and you have to be pretty dim to even consider that. So many examples of men idolizing muscles mass it is ridiculous and it has been like this for centuries.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Hmmm, maybe they don't have the skill to depict men and women any other way. These people studied comic books, not the actual human figure. I saw a Hitman Absolution video the other day. I thought to myself "Man, Agent 47 spends a lot of time working on his arms. Who knew assassins were so body conscious!"

But then you have people who say "Well it's aimed at guys/chicks, duh. It's like that in all media," so no reason to create anything other than power fantasy I guess. People get the the kind of entertainment they deserve.

It's probably more due to the audience's expectations and chosen art style. Lots of comic book artists can handle divergences from the norm, but really in your usual capefaggotry it'd be out of place (of course, great variation to this has been done over the years). Then again, Alex Ross does the more human-looking superheroes for a living (and his painting style support this).

Actually, I'dguess that on a level video game hipster fandom is jealous of comic books (as they are of movies, obviously), since unlike games comics ARE acknowledged and respected as a medium nowadays. Of course, the problem they have is that in the first instance they don't have any sort of appreciation for the video game as a medium, or any kind of regard for its history. As long as the only games presented as "art" are ones made within less than ten years, you know there's no hope for the medium to be taken seriously, not when you're actually ignoring most of it instead of trying to play good games from all over (which is easier than ever nowadays tahnks to emulators and whatnot).

Boy I wonder if perhaps all media tend to idealize main characters because sexy people sell better. Could it be? Who knows!

No doubt. Some of the grown ups are ok with Frances McDormand, or an old man in a boat being the main characters though

Yea, we don't have much in that way when it comes to video games. Grim Fandango, PS:T, and such are good examples of going for something and sticking to your guns, and actually pulling it off.

Now, I'm the last guy to say that a non-heroic protagonist is the key to a good story (since it isn't, stories aren't about using the right formula), but it's a very good metric for checking the state of video games as a medium. It's basically 99% Hollywood blockbusters for games.

Another funny thing is that games industry doesn't really care about hiring interested talented writers to come up with something for them. I mean, going just by comic books, Grant Morrison has been open about the fact he wants to write video games for a decade now, and the only jobs he got was writing the first draft (which was completely butchered or discarded) for two shitty licensed games. We could have had more games written by Harlan Ellison. But nope, need moar Oscar Mike Ramirez Do Everything. Of course this is not to say we don't have good writers within games, like Amy Hennig, our beloved MCA, or Hideo Kojima even if he needs an editor; or just games with very good stories. But as a medium, video games haven't really developed to its own, it's still just interactive movies instead of doing something you could only do with a video game (personally I'd say there's a grain of truth in saying video games could be more than movies, as they have all of cinema's tools and then some of their own).

 

[groke]

It's not that some women wouldn't like Duke Nukem or the God of War guy. Some would - there are examples in this thread of media directed at women using big, muscular men. But big muscular shirtless video game characters are designed that way because they appeal to some men, not because they appeal to some women.

So essentially what you're saying is that women are smart enough to not view unrealistic cartoon characters as role models but men all secretly want to be buff bodybuilder frat boys who sleep around

Duke Nukem/God of War really wasn't meant to appeal to women and you have to be pretty dim to even consider that. So many examples of men idolizing muscles mass it is ridiculous and it has been like this for centuries.

I cannot imagine any teenage boy in 1996 playing Duke Nukem 3D and thinking (barring mental illness) "Oh man, I want to be a musclebound douchebag with a crew cut" or wanting to grow up to kill strippers. Duke Nukem wasn't a fucking power fantasy, it was satire. DOOM guy was a power fantasy. The Gears of War chimps are power fantasies. Duke Nukem was a fucking joke and even a child could understand this.

 

[Dr Tomo]

I cannot imagine any teenage boy in 1996 playing Duke Nukem 3D and thinking (barring mental illness) "Oh man, I want to be a musclebound douchebag with a crew cut" or wanting to grow up to kill strippers. Duke Nukem wasn't a fucking power fantasy, it was satire. DOOM guy was a power fantasy. The Gears of War chimps are power fantasies. Duke Nukem was a fucking joke and even a child could understand this.

You are calling Duke Nukem satire? Jesus you are hilarious. Let's take all three games that you mentioned just now and dissect them. All three have muscle bound bad asses that are killing hordes of enemies and the first game that you mentioned even has females wanting Duke's cock. So where else did this type of fantasy occur..........oh right just about majority of the 80's and early 90's had movie characters doing the same thing and was popular among adolescents. So in a nut shell you are looking for something that isn't there and this is a topic brought up by those fags that are hardcore into games being art bs.

 

[DefJam101]

In other news, Skullgirls getting its first male character: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/...al-attacks-skullgirls-female-announcer-shown/

 

[Damned Registrations]

Of course the musclebound powerful rich righteous guy is fucking eyecandy for women; why the fuck do you think that it's a male power fantasy to begin with? That all men want to impress 9 year old boys and their grandpa? Muscle bound hunks with guns are a male power fantasy because they attract women, which is the core male fantasy to begin with. Hell, it's the core animal fantasy: attract a fucking mate. If money and muscles and guns didn't do that, we wouldn't give a shit.

 

[Gozma]

Good gravy Big Band is huge, I thought he'd be like Cerebella-sized if she had hurtbox in her arms

 

[groke]

I cannot imagine any teenage boy in 1996 playing Duke Nukem 3D and thinking (barring mental illness) "Oh man, I want to be a musclebound douchebag with a crew cut" or wanting to grow up to kill strippers. Duke Nukem wasn't a fucking power fantasy, it was satire. DOOM guy was a power fantasy. The Gears of War chimps are power fantasies. Duke Nukem was a fucking joke and even a child could understand this.

You are calling Duke Nukem satire? Jesus you are hilarious. Let's take all three games that you mentioned just now and dissect them. All three have muscle bound bad asses that are killing hordes of enemies and the first game that you mentioned even has females wanting Duke's cock. So where else did this type of fantasy occur..........oh right just about majority of the 80's and early 90's had movie characters doing the same thing and was popular among adolescents. So in a nut shell you are looking for something that isn't there and this is a topic brought up by those fags that are hardcore into games being art bs.

Did you think Duke Nukem was serious? It's lampooning 80's action films you fucking mongoloid! Did you think Spinal Tap was a film about a real band that celebrated male fantasies about being big-dick guitar hero?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I cannot imagine any teenage boy in 1996 playing Duke Nukem 3D and thinking (barring mental illness) "Oh man, I want to be a musclebound douchebag with a crew cut" or wanting to grow up to kill strippers. Duke Nukem wasn't a fucking power fantasy, it was satire. DOOM guy was a power fantasy. The Gears of War chimps are power fantasies. Duke Nukem was a fucking joke and even a child could understand this.

Duke is satire of the guy that acts exactly like him? Why, because Doomguy looks like a normal person and Duke looks funny?

Doom and Duke nukem gameplay are virtually identical, in that you're this guy gunning down hordes of enemies. This is where the power fantasy comes in, not from how handsome the hero is.

 

[groke]

If you thought Duke Nukem wasn't trying to make fun of something, you probably have asperger's.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

You're the one who says Doom and GoW are power fantasies while Duke Nukem is satire, despite how the only difference between them is that Duke makes more jokes and looks goofy.

 

[Dr Tomo]

I cannot imagine any teenage boy in 1996 playing Duke Nukem 3D and thinking (barring mental illness) "Oh man, I want to be a musclebound douchebag with a crew cut" or wanting to grow up to kill strippers. Duke Nukem wasn't a fucking power fantasy, it was satire. DOOM guy was a power fantasy. The Gears of War chimps are power fantasies. Duke Nukem was a fucking joke and even a child could understand this.

You are calling Duke Nukem satire? Jesus you are hilarious. Let's take all three games that you mentioned just now and dissect them. All three have muscle bound bad asses that are killing hordes of enemies and the first game that you mentioned even has females wanting Duke's cock. So where else did this type of fantasy occur..........oh right just about majority of the 80's and early 90's had movie characters doing the same thing and was popular among adolescents. So in a nut shell you are looking for something that isn't there and this is a topic brought up by those fags that are hardcore into games being art bs.

Did you think Duke Nukem was serious? It's lampooning 80's action films you fucking mongoloid! Did you think Spinal Tap was a film about a real band that celebrated male fantasies about being big-dick guitar hero?

Ha lolz looks like someone drunk the kool aid. Listen, you can keep jerking off to game being arts as much as you want but 2 things would have clued you in that you drunk the kool aid. Tell me what other artsy games Apogee did besides Duke. Oh noes there is none and it turns out they originally wanted to make a game riding on the coat tails of the action packed films of the 80's and early 90's with a focus on "fun". While you are at it how about you link me several articles telling me how Duke Nukem 3D is a sophisticated satire. Again oh noes that was a recent phenomenon dealing with Duke Nukem Forever in which both 3D realms and Gearbox both blew smoke up peoples asses by saying it was satire so people would actually pay full price for their shit game. Which a lot of people insecure about the medium jumped on it and lapped it all up.

Sorry I don't agree with joining your game is arts circle jerk that you participate in with Blow and those other indie dev tards . Anyway continue to lecture to me how I am not sophisticated enough to join the game is arts band wagon.

 

[groke]

Jesus fucking christ this forum.

 

[DefJam101]

Calling Doom a power fantasy feels kind of odd since the Doomguy is physically rather weak and only succeeds because he can run away really fast

 

[dnf]

It's not that some women wouldn't like Duke Nukem or the God of War guy. Some would - there are examples in this thread of media directed at women using big, muscular men. But big muscular shirtless video game characters are designed that way because they appeal to some men, not because they appeal to some women.

So essentially what you're saying is that women are smart enough to not view unrealistic cartoon characters as role models but men all secretly want to be buff bodybuilder frat boys who sleep around

Duke Nukem/God of War really wasn't meant to appeal to women and you have to be pretty dim to even consider that. So many examples of men idolizing muscles mass it is ridiculous and it has been like this for centuries.

Stating that they aren't meant to appeal to women is the wrong question. What we should ask is: Are they attractive or unatractive in the eyes of women?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Calling Doom a power fantasy feels kind of odd since the Doomguy is physically rather weak and only succeeds because he can run away really fast

He's still a guy with a gun that singlehandedly kills a million enemies in various gory ways to save the world. You see, this makes him a power fantasy, different from Duke Nukem (who's a guy with a gun that singlehandedly kills a million enemies in various gory ways to save the world) which is satire because Duke makes jokes about how macho he is.

 

[DefJam101]

so is the game the power fantasy or is the character the power fantasy

would doom still be a power fantasy if the doomguy was a robot killing thousands of robots

is doom still a power fantasy if you never ever think about the character of the doomguy while playing or care at all whether you're "murdering" things because it's clearly a computer program and not real and the violence is only there to provide basic context for the gameplay

is dark souls a power fantasy because you kill thousands of monsters? these are important questions

 

[Rivmusique]

So, is Skullgirls any good?

 

[DefJam101]

It's fun but combo-heavy to a fault. Basic bread and butter knockdown combos for almost all character teams are 40+ hits with multiple juggles, OTG hits, wallbounces, etc. Sticking to simple stuff literally cuts your damage in half.

 

[Gurkog]

I loved SF2, but today's fighters are just overly complex for no good reason.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

What really matters in a fighter is tricking the oppenent to fall for your l33t mind games, and that can be as simple or as complicated as the players can manage.

 

[Gozma]

There is stuff you could spend weeks practicing in SF2 and you could write a book on the information going into the game; you mostly just didn't know about it in the early '90s. The whole fighting game culture used to be "I AM THE BESS BECAUSE I AM THE BESS IN MY ARCADE/IN MY HOUSE CAUSE I BEAT MY LITTLE BROTHER SO BAD" "HEY THIS GUY FROM ACROSS TOWN BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF ME SO I WILL WORK HARD TO BEAT THIS GUY TO BE THE BESS AGAIN" but now the reality that you are one dude of many is kinda in your face.

Edit - Not that I'm saying the combos in Skullgirls aren't too long, but complexity will basically always condescend to your skill level.

 

[e-mailio estevez]

I loved SF2, but today's fighters are just overly complex for no good reason.

This is why I like the Soul Calibur games best of all. No crazy execution requirements for the most part. It's mostly just about reading your opponent.