Rosh speaks on Followind

[Kamaz]

...never said being an arsehole is something bad, though. Its just way of expressing disagreement, like, "Hey, Joe, youre an asshole, you know that?" "Whats up again, what did I do?" "You told my girl she's fat!" "Man, that was meant ironic, she's slim actually, everyone can see that." "Oh, I see, then its ok, but that was not good anyways.". That was like this kind of arsehole, I meant. Not really offending. In that case, I guess, we, Volourn, just have different opinions (disagree) which is good.

But, TFVanguard, you claim Fallout was one of your favourite games (it seems like everyone does it today). If it is so, could you name the reasons why you liked the game then? I know too much people that liked Fallout but did not see its true valors. Hope your honest in your response.

2Crichton:
When I played Fallout1,2 I loved the concept that my party is independant from me. That was the big bonus in my eyes, because lots of cRPGs tend to make your and your party the one ..erm..THING. I mean, it is not individual anymore. Worst/finest example is Wizardray8 which was awfull from my point of view just because there was I like overmind and my 8 different personalities. I know its an inheritance from PnP era, but that is relic that must be abandoned IMO. In PnP its different - in party everyone is personality, even in battle. In Fallout I just loved when my comrades did stupid things because it added some adventure to the pure killing. Each time I entered any hostile location, I would be shocked, amused, scared, pleased by decisions of my party. Saving their arses was additional quests in some cases and it was really interesting to see how doctor Lenny and repairman Vic slowly mutate into...mediocre shooters. They were bad at shooting and it is ok, because in reality they'd be bad combatants and there is nothing wrong about that.
What you seek in games, I guess, is tactical moment. Wild guess, but you might love Commandos, SilentStorm and this type of games where the aim is action, tactics. In Fallout, the main thing is not action, though, but story/world/characters/adventure. If you look at combat from this point, you'll find that un-controllable party is very good way of introducing story/atmosphere/world/adventure etc..

 

[TFVanguard]

But, TFVanguard, you claim Fallout was one of your favourite games (it seems like everyone does it today). If it is so, could you name the reasons why you liked the game then? I know too much people that liked Fallout but did not see its true valors. Hope your honest in your response.

It's been ages, but here goes...

Really liked the depth and feel of the setting. Very easy to get a handle on how things worked in the context of the world. I also liked that, despite it being a dark world, you got to be the hero in your own little way. Earning little bits of respect as you struggled to make a somewhat decent world was very nice.

The encounters were mostly well done, and I seldom got frustrated with a stupid foozle fight or anything. Agian, very easy to get into, sophisticated enough to be a challenge, but not something you would put away because that last damn random encounter was 20 levels above you.

The quirkiness. I admit it, I found the backstory pulpy and fun, and I'm a sucker for that. Made the game that much more approachable for me. For me, Fallout 2 lacked a lot of that, focusing more on the 'chosen one' and the 'angst' of the setting.

 

[Bobbin]

Although I agree with some of the stuff he wrote I don't hope they think Rosh represents the whole community which is only partially as fanatic as he is. I for one wouldn't mind a change from the isometric perspective as long as it is not first person.

 

[Crichton]

If you look at combat from this point, you'll find that un-controllable party is very good way of introducing story/atmosphere/world/adventure etc..

I think I have a better understanding now. For my own part, the foolishness of NPC's was often a detrement even to role-playing because of how stupid they were, I have a very similair problem with charecters of pre-set strategic decisions (like the NPC's of fallout, arcanum, the IE games, NWN, etc). I'd much prefer that whatever kind of personality they had, I got to decided (within some vague boundaries at least) what class, skills, perks, etc they took. This way, I could take the NPC's with the nice voice sets / personality without being annoyed at their poor choices in strategic developement. Final fantasy tactics would be a nice example of this, as would freedom force. But sadly, few developers agree with me on this.

 

[plin]

No. The arshole is Kamaz. Next.

indeed

 

[Volourn]

You are an asshole too. Anyone else what a go with the Arsehole chant? Next.

 

[FrankHorrigan]

Name me any title that has not been continued by its authors but others and is been as good (similar to..) as in the beginning. I can recall only bad examples. And that is the reason I would be worried about Fallouts fate.

For arguments sake, Theif sorta 3 and your all gonna love this one, super metroid prime. Also, Alien VS Predator 2.

 

[plin]

You are an asshole too. Anyone else what a go with the Arsehole chant? Next.

hmm. Then you're an asshole as well. Next.

 

[Volourn]

Don't pull a Bethseda, and steal other peoples' materially legally even if it lame stuff. Think up your own stuff.

kthanxnnotgoodbye

 

[plin]

Don't pull a Bethseda, and steal other peoples' materially legally even if it lame stuff. Think up your own stuff.

kthanxnnotgoodbye

Ok... Volourn is a stupid cunt. thanks

 

[Volourn]

Not original; but it;'s better than copying me so a tad better.

 

[Rosh]

when the little lady-boi takes the sailor cock out of his mouth, he actually says something poignant now and then.

i'm a little more optomistic than he is though.

Saint! Stop the attention whore from propositioning me, again. That fugly bitch has me scared, especially with his "Project Hot Dog". It sounds like a little too emphatic to be the title of a straight porn flick.

People also need to understand a few basic fundamentals. I've done this at length at NMA and I've dealt with a lot of ignorance in that time.

Iso - Iso/Adjust = This allows the game to convey a more pulpish feel to the game. This could very well be enhanced by the use of graphical elements to make it look a fair bit more dark pulpish. 3D can do this to an extent, and it is guaranteed that the game will be 3D. 3D can also do isometric and look fairly similar to Fallout, mostly if they take advantage of the resolution, but there will still be issues about detail, which I hope is taken to looking like Gothic (or more accurately) Ultima 7's world in terms of design depth. That, I rather liked, and it suits the setting. 3D is now moot. Did anyone want to mention 3D?

The artistic style needs to remain as well. I have a feeling that with some of that armor styles Bethesda prefers, we're possibly due for another set of Predator Powar Armor.

Turn-Based = Really the only way the SPECIAL system works in this system, and it was developed for TB play, like a P&P RPG, like how Fallout was intended to be developed and hence called itself a CRPG. It is also the best way to represent your character's skills within combat, which is yet another important part of P&P RPG play. It also allows for the maximum usage of AI, which was a problem for the first two, but TB allows for allotting more resources towards a particular AI routine than have to deal with the constant crunch Ian shooting you in the back is far more likely with a real-time combat system, as it's fairly easy to fix with an LOS system a couple of decades ago. Hexes like that should have easily allowed an LOS targeting check to see about that, and perhaps someone IS butterfingers enough to do that. It adds another level of control, right? That was my one major gripe about Fallout, the AI had some problems.

P&P RPG = This is where Fallout gets its roots. Fuck with this, I think HomeLAN might take potshots in addition to every Fallout fan site. (Well, except for those shitty Angelfire FOT clannie sites.) SPECIAL is written to emulate a P&P RPG, but on computer, and with a decent DMing simulation in how the world responds to you. That aspect, and nothing like TES, should be retained.

The simple reason for adhering to these requirements resides in what makes or kills a game series. Frankly, I'd rather see Fallout die than suffer from being made into a trendy game and wholly lose everything that made it what it was. Some other game can be the spiritual child to Fallout as Fallout was to Wasteland.

Updates to the game's features can be managed easily, and it's not too hard to imagine where improvements and depth can be added. The only reason for changing them is if Bethesda does not wish and/or is not able to develop in such a manner, and that is probably going to be for trendy reasons, and in a Feargus parallel, it will likely be made into something the TES fans would consider buying - or so Bethesda possibly thinks. Unfortunately, TES folks would rather have TES, Fallout fans would rather have something a little less skullfucked, for once since 1998, and that was questionable at best.

The only way that those who bought the series of Fallout to enjoy the Fallout CRPG will really accept the game is if it retains the aspects that made it so good in the first place. If it followed Ultima...well, no...I keep making that parallel, but it's coming true in scary ways. First a game that looks like Ultima 8 (FOT), then Ultima 9 (FO3) looks like it's going to geared more towards an action title, and then finally Herve sticks his dick into the Fallout pie by having his own UO developed (FOOL).

For those of you who think there is little interest in Fallout, or that it is niche. It could be considered niche, if the real definition of the CRPG genre was observed. You know, the part about resembling a P&P RPG. As for little interest or few fans, then you're not keeping up with the amount of interviews and news bits this has generated. I haven't seen many games where news of this amount and reaction, even in places not devoted to the game, in a while.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Without being able to combine arms against the enemy, ie coordinate my attacks by commanding all of my units instead of just the one, any sort of tactics were a forlorn hope. I had exactly the same problem with arcanum (or for that matter, NWN), the tactical setup is ok, but what good does that do if the computer gets to make 2/3 of my decisions for me?

One thing that a lot of people don't seem to be getting these days is that Fallout is not a party game. At some point, the Vault Dweller and Chosen One are supposed to walk alone. That's why you don't control NPCs(you're not supposed to be able to control an NPC by the definition of the term, anyway). That's why NPCs don't advance as fast as the player, and so on. Fallout is all about the lone wanderer, the person who has to make the choice to do what is best for him/her and his/her companions. Does he/she take them on in to greater peril like the Military Base/Cathedral knowing they're probably going to die or does he/she ditch them? Either way, the end result is that the hero's life in Fallout isn't one that involves a bunch of people, it's a lonely life. That's the point.

You might say, Well, d00dz, itz kewl to haff a party so u can all shoot stuf 2gether and stuf, but that's not the point. Only the Vault Dweller and Chosen One could accomplish those things and walk away from them.

 

[plin]

Not original; but it;'s better than copying me so a tad better.

whaaa, what was original about yours? Arshole? Next?

Lame

kthxbeyeomaomgomgomgomg
fag

 

[Volourn]

Saint, i think the beauty of FO is it can be played either way. And, my VD and CO were vastly different than yours as mine enjoyed others' companies on that long journey in the Wasteland tm.

Plin, keep up the good work. One day you be up (or is down lol0 at my level. Good doggy.

 

[plin]

Plin, keep up the good work. One day you be up (or is down lol0 at my level. Good doggy.

Great.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

You are an asshole too. Anyone else what a go with the Arsehole chant? Next.

You're just a big fuzzy wuggums that what you are.... a goddamn ruggy baby buggy bumpers...

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Saint, i think the beauty of FO is it can be played either way. And, my VD and CO were vastly different than yours as mine enjoyed others' companies on that long journey in the Wasteland tm.

Plin, keep up the good work. One day you be up (or is down lol0 at my level. Good doggy.

You can play however you like, but the chances are that all your followers are going to die in the end if you drag them along with you.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

Its just about possible to keep them alive but only if you leave them behind for certain fights and come back to pick them up later. I had vic, cassidy and sulik after the end of fallout two, by leaving them in the lobby at the enclave and picking them up after. They would have been mincemeat otherwise though....

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I prefer TB to real-time with a pause button when I'm actually commanding multiple units (though I've seen both done properly), but if you only get one measly charecter, what difference does it make?

Ever notice how the bad guys in Fallout could kill you with one shot?

Ever notice how the bad guys in real-time RPGs can't?

Think about that for a while.

 

[protobob]

Yeah people die all the time, especially when gun fire is involved. Hell I watched a movie last night where everyone but the hero dies.

Yet when we play a game we are like "Oh no, they killed dogmeat! Reload! Reload!"
Death happens, it's part of the story.

 

[Volourn]

Other than the stupid dog; the npcs weren';t too difficult to keep alive if you bothered to heal them. This was, of course, made much easier in FO2 due to them being able to wear power armour.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Other than the stupid dog; the npcs weren';t too difficult to keep alive if you bothered to heal them. This was, of course, made much easier in FO2 due to them being able to wear power armour.

Not just dogmeat - Tycho, Katja, and Ian won't survive mutants packing miniguns. It tears them apart in seconds.

In FO2, they certainly can wear power armor, but that really doesn't help them much at the oil rig when enclavers attack based on having NPCs around.

 

[Volourn]

In FO1, all I did was make sure the mutants targeted mne so the npcs got free reign to fire at thier liesure.

In FO2 at the two big bases, all i did was keep the npcs in a safe room since it made sense that you were trying to be "sneaky"..

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

In FO1, all I did was make sure the mutants targeted mne so the npcs got free reign to fire at thier liesure.

Let me refresh your memory: miniguns are burst weapons. Bursts in Fallout were conical patterns.

In FO2 at the two big bases, all i did was keep the npcs in a safe room since it made sense that you were trying to be "sneaky"..

Which is the same thing as ditching them so you can walk that path alone.