Community RPG Codex Best Vintage RPG Poll

[Lady Error]

"Graphics are acceptable" is a nice way of saying "looks like shit".

 

[Bester]

My IWD2 disc had a NWN trailer on it. I remember watching it and being quite shocked by how shit the 3d looked. It felt like a stepback to PS1 games, e.g. Rayman 2.

Aurora Engine's shadows and godrays didn't exactly change much.

 

[jackofshadows]

I don't get this art style wankery. It's important, sure but not like those RPGs are revolving around the visuals. Like some adventure games or platformers. That's the reason why people look past Gothic's looks or F:NV looks, Deus Ex and other ugly as fuck games. Same for older non-top looking RPGs.

 

[Lady Error]

I don't get this art style wankery. It's important, sure but not like those RPGs are revolving around the visuals. Like some adventure games or platformers. That's the reason why people look past Gothic's looks or F:NV looks, Deus Ex and other ugly as fuck games. Same for older non-top looking RPGs.

You still don't get what art style actually is. Both Gothic and Deus Ex have pretty good art style, despite the low-res 3D graphics.

 

[jackofshadows]

You still don't get what art style actually is. Both Gothic and Deus Ex have pretty good art style, despite the low-res 3D graphics.

And? I don't disagree with them having ok to good art style. Doesn't negate the fact that they look like absolute crap. If the art style is what helping you to see past it - more power to you, to me it's the gameplay and mechanics. Like, if Quake was a shitty shooter the fact that it does have a good art style wouldn't help me in the slightest.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Need to make a list of people who think nwn looks good so I know to never take their advice.

 

[NJClaw]

hey Saint_Proverbius
why did you used a phrase "The graphics are acceptable" instead of "graphics looks like shit"?
According to codexers nvn is extremly ugly game and your review doesn't seems to imply that.
Why?

Is this a very elaborate coping mechanism to deal with your girlfriend describing your sexual encounters as "acceptable"?

 

[Roguey]

NWN environment art was intentionally lousy looking because they wanted to make it very easy to create levels. NWN2 bumped up the graphics, made the toolset impenetrable to normies as a result.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

NWN environment art was intentionally lousy looking because they wanted to make it very easy to create levels. NWN2 bumped up the graphics, made the toolset impenetrable to normies as a result.

everything about the art was shit including the UI and the characters

 

[Roguey]

everything about the art was shit including the UI and the characters

Character models are on Bioware, but everything about the UI makes sense from the perspective of "How is this user friendly in multiplayer?"

 

[rusty_shackleford]

everything about the art was shit including the UI and the characters

Character models are on Bioware, but everything about the UI makes sense from the perspective of "How is this user friendly in multiplayer?"

the UI doesn't even have consistent lighting

 

[dacencora]

Comparing graphics of a 2D and 3D game is stupid.

All of this is from a butthurt crusade by sigard because he lacks reading comprehension. Nobody on the Codex was saying that 2D DOS art is always superior to 3D, just that they prefer 2D art to 3D art. I also tend to appreciate 2D art more because it is a much more mature medium than 3D stuff which is still fairly experimental. The 2D backdrops in the IE games are pretty darn good looking. I wish that there were more high-res 2D games, but it's not super popular these days outside of pixel-art, which is basically the opposite of what I'd want.

TLDR: This whole discussion about 2D vs 3D games is retarded.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Codexers in only 4 years went from praising nvn graphics to "gfx looks like shit"
this site should be renamed to www.rpgedgelords.net

they're wrong and your fonts look as bad as nwn

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Codexers in only 4 years went from praising nvn graphics to "gfx looks like shit"
this site should be renamed to www.rpgedgelords.net

they're wrong and your fonts look as bad as nwn

btw, I liked your cherrypicking

Save for the low-res textures it looks better than NWN which was released a year later. Characters look better too.

Yeah, I know, not saying much considering NWN is one of the ugliest games in existence, but that didn't stop everybody fellating Bioware over it.

NWN always looked like a spanked arse, I were amazed by how pretty second game an Witcher were in comparison, comin from that fuckin abortion. Heard they improved graphics a bit in NWN oer years along wi addin cloaks an shit, but when it came out it'd make your fuckin eyeballs puke.

Dungeon Siege were pure graphic porn though, pretty then an still pretty now, though character models were a bit lackin.

NWN looked terrible, especially after BG2. They made a bunch of horrible design decisions, starting from going with barebones 3D to designing a "functional" Windows-like GUI that looked just about as boring as you could possibly make it.

I found NWN to be a big step back from BG2 and such. Not only due to clunky early 3D, but especially because the art direction simply sucked.

When did Gothic come out? 2001

NWN: 2002.

Gothic looks much better. I recall being pretty unimpressed with NWN's graphics when it came out. Blocky, ugly items, characters, environments, enemies, etc. It also ran like shit on my PC.

The blocky nwn models were real freaky. Rest of it was tolerable.

 

[Tacgnol]

Comparing graphics of a 2D and 3D game is stupid.

All of this is from a butthurt crusade by sigard because he lacks reading comprehension. Nobody on the Codex was saying that 2D DOS art is always superior to 3D, just that they prefer 2D art to 3D art. I also tend to appreciate 2D art more because it is a much more mature medium than 3D stuff which is still fairly experimental. The 2D backdrops in the IE games are pretty darn good looking. I wish that there were more high-res 2D games, but it's not super popular these days outside of pixel-art, which is basically the opposite of what I'd want.

TLDR: This whole discussion about 2D vs 3D games is retarded.

The guy has a massive grudge against old games in general. You should see the threads he made about Doom a few months back.

I just assumed he was trying to win the retard of the year 2021 award.

 

[dacencora]

I always forget that Witcher 1 is a NWN mod. They did a great job with it, tbh.

The guy has a massive grudge against old games in general. You should see the threads he made about Doom a few months back.

I just assumed he was trying to win the retard of the year 2021 award.

Yeah, he's gone into a bunch of threads spewing this same retardation that people love Wizardry 1's gfx.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

The blocky nwn models were real freaky. Rest of it was tolerable.

Damnation I forgot how much the models used to put me off after I modded that out.

 

[Roguey]

I always forget that Witcher 1 is a NWN mod. They did a great job with it, tbh.

It uses the underlying engine, but the renderer is entirely CD Projekt's.

 

[luj1]

gameplay is king

 

[luj1]

Both Gothic and Deus Ex have pretty good art style

gothic art direction lol

its mundane brown-green medieval bollocks

aka nothingburger

 

[luj1]

Few things about Nwn 1...

Yes back in the day we ridiculed "fist" meshes which were basically cubes

it never looked great

However for a 3D game of that era (where every game looked desolate) it had a ton of charm and was very warm-looking

this was because the color palette was actually well done

So id say
meshes = below average for the era
textures = average to below average for the era
animation = significantly above average for the era

Realize Nwn had stuff like parying and dodging that matched between characters. And it works across all kinds of different shapes of creatures in a way that was unprecedented.

Meanwhile in BG3 visibly hitting the devourer with the arrow registers as a miss

Dont forget that early reviews praised spell FX (flame strike, magic missile, defensive spell shields etc)

the 2D art (portraits etc) was superb and for me largely unmatched to this day. They literally looked like MtG cards done by pros

The UI was sterile as fuck, but remains one of the most functional UIs ever. The radial menu in particular

 

[Tacgnol]

I always forget that Witcher 1 is a NWN mod. They did a great job with it, tbh.

It uses the underlying engine, but the renderer is entirely CD Projekt's.

CDPR also commercially licensed aurora and had full access to the source code. You aren't going to be bolting on a physics engine and half the other things they did without access to engine source code.

 

[Alex]

There are a few decent games on the list, including Darklands, which I love, but... claiming 1996 was the beginning of the decline is retadred to say the least.

The best games in the genre were made past that date and most of entertaining and enjoyable RPGs are also past that date.

The decline is not necessarily a statement of low quality having been reached, but rather a statement that the descent into low quality has begun. It is entirely consistent to say that the decline began in 1996, but the best games were made in the year 2000 (or whatever). You just need to keep in mind that games are developed over a period of years, and the expectations of players/developers/publishers also introduces lag into the system.

Imo the period of "everything is shit" began in 2004 (the year troika died, even if they didn't officially close until early 2005). But the decline must have begun before that, for how else could we go from good to bad in a smooth way?

I think thinking in terms of second derivatives here may be taking the whole decline analogy a bit too far...

 

[Jaedar]

There are a few decent games on the list, including Darklands, which I love, but... claiming 1996 was the beginning of the decline is retadred to say the least.

The best games in the genre were made past that date and most of entertaining and enjoyable RPGs are also past that date.

The decline is not necessarily a statement of low quality having been reached, but rather a statement that the descent into low quality has begun. It is entirely consistent to say that the decline began in 1996, but the best games were made in the year 2000 (or whatever). You just need to keep in mind that games are developed over a period of years, and the expectations of players/developers/publishers also introduces lag into the system.

Imo the period of "everything is shit" began in 2004 (the year troika died, even if they didn't officially close until early 2005). But the decline must have begun before that, for how else could we go from good to bad in a smooth way?

I think thinking in terms of second derivatives here may be taking the whole decline analogy a bit too far...

If it's about a change in something, it can be described by calculus.
It is about a change in quality of games.
It can be described by calculus.
■