Interview RPG Codex Community Q&A: Project Eternity with Josh Sawyer

[Hormalakh]

there is another thing that they can do that may work with attributes. they can make a set of attributes that affect each class differently but all serve as important aspects of that particular class. For example:

A warrior - master of weapons and melee fighter:
str - ability to use weapons
dex - ability to strike without missing
int - ability to know where to strike opponent. increased critical chance.
soul - ability to work soul-based damage
const - hitpoints and stamina

Monk - master of wounds and melee fighter
str - damage modifier
dex - defense modifier
int - abillity to know where to strike opponent. increased critical chance.
soul - ability to work soul-based damage
const - ability to hold wounds for longer period of time before they are applied as damage

wizard - magic user
str - ability to equip weapons and armor
dex - ability to not lose concentration or not have spell dissapate while casting
int - damage modifier
soul - knowledge of soul-based magic and ability to see enemy's weak spots. increased critical chance.
const - hitpoints and stamina

or something to this effect. the difference with this attribute-system is that it's class specific. you pick your class first and then you adjust your attributes to match what flavor of that particular class you'd like to play.

 

[Sensuki]

That requires 11x the programming.

 

[Shevek]

Sawyer's stat system sounds fine. No one has brought up a single coherent reason why stats for physical and magical power should be divorced from eachother and anyone can see this will be better than the 2E system we had in BG2. No dump stats means stat decisions mean something more other than hitting roll till you get 18/00 str or choosing some bland standard array of stats.

 

[HiddenX]

Thank you for Q&A.

Gozma asked:​

Is the game balanced to be played without reloading (aside from play stoppages) on the first game if the player wishes?​

A lot of that depends on the difficulty setting and the player's skill, but we aren't designing encounters to require prescience. We're trying to avoid sucker punches in fights, enemy tactics that demand a very specific combination of items, classes, spells, or abilities to overcome. While there will certainly be strategic and tactical choices that will work very poorly in certain fights, we'd rather give the player a number of ways to win a battle. If we wind up creating specific formulae or one valid strategy to win a fight, I think that takes a lot away from the player's potential enjoyment.​

I hope that doesn't mean combat is a trivial mindless task as long you have enough potions and hit long enough. I want JA2 veteran difficulty and tactical options. Characters dying if you play poorly is not a bad thing.

 

[godsend1989]

For me IWD 2 had the best tactical fights in IE games, so i trust in Sawyer that will make the combat at least as good as IWD 2 or better.

 

[Roguey]

I hope that doesn't mean combat is a trivial mindless task as long you have enough potions and hit long enough. I want JA2 veteran difficulty and tactical options. Characters dying if you play poorly is not a bad thing.

There are consumables but no healing potions. The top difficulty setting is being balanced to be about as demanding as normal Icewind Dale 2; I assume the expert toggles will add strategic forms of difficulty to elevate it above that, plus there's Path of the Damned.

 

[CappenVarra]

One way they can get away with generic attributes is their fabled "all classes are soul-powered" thing - your Warrior doesn't do more damage by being strong (high Strength), he does more damage by being a purer expression of a Powerful Warrior soul (high Soul Power). And each class has an equivalent, resulting in a Mage benefiting from high Soul Power by getting higher spell damage etc. Then you can have Soul Power, Soul Precision, Soul Speed and Soul Vitality as universal attributes or whatnot.

Basically, there's no "mundane" activity in the game, expressing something a character in a work of fantasy fiction would do (Conan lifting a boulder with his huge muscles, modeled by high Strength) - it's all an abstract expression of some pre-designed trade-off, pre-packaged by the designer to give you a committee-approved amount of feeling-you're-making-a-meaningful-choice.

Personally, I detest such design because a) even with a simulation-loving score of <100 miliDraQs, I still hate characters that use Magical Soul Powers to get out of bed and brush their teeth in the morning b) often times such design turns character building from playing with

into playing with

But hey, let's see how it turns out...

 

[HiddenX]

I hope that doesn't mean combat is a trivial mindless task as long you have enough potions and hit long enough. I want JA2 veteran difficulty and tactical options. Characters dying if you play poorly is not a bad thing.

There are consumables but no healing potions. The top difficulty setting is being balanced to be about as demanding as normal Icewind Dale 2; I assume the expert toggles will add strategic forms of difficulty to elevate it above that, plus there's Path of the Damned.

Sounds good - thank you for the information.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

We are not planning to create class-specific quests. Sorry.

Now that's kinda disappointing. So, what about class-dependent ways of completing a quest? Is this out of the question too?

 

[Sensuki]

I believe Chris Avellone said that would there would be unique was to solve quests based on class, race, culture, background etc etc in an interview, but I haven't been able to find the quote. If the question included that he probs woulda answered it.

 

[tindrli]

not that im proud of but i finally figured out what "IE" means

 

[Excidium]

not that im proud of but i finally figured out what "IE" means

Internet Explorer?

 

[villain of the story]

villain of the story Your opinion on the proposed stealth system.



To me, it sounds like the attribute system isn't as "core" as it (supposedly) is in D&D. It's more of a way of giving your character an "edge" on top of his talents and class abilities, which are the true core of the system.

Right now our basic implementation is more involved than what
was in the Infinity Engine games. Party members have a radius
around them (based on their individual Stealth skills) that
represents the range at which a creature's perception radius can
notice them. This radius can grow larger based on the character's
actions, so if you're sneaking around and you start casting a spell,
it will bump up considerably.
Creatures do have two detection states (other than not detecting
anything): investigation and alert. If you just "bump" the edge of a
creature's detection radius, it will typically move to investigate. If
it gets close enough, it will switch over to an alert state. If the
creature is already hostile toward the party, it will attack and "call
for help" (to use an Infinity Engine term), potentially alerting its
nearby allies.

Commandos 2 & 3 did that and it was good for that game. For an RPG, it is too simplistic and indiscerning. Fixed radius (per character) doesn't discern between different perceptlve capabilities nor between sound and sight or equipment. Therefore, it's popamole consoltard shit. Not surprised since it's Obsidian. Tragic really.

 

[Infinitron]

Commandos 2 & 3 did that and it was good for that game. For an RPG, it is too simplistic and indiscerning. Fİxed radius (per character) doesn't discern between different perceptlve capabilities nor between sound and sight or equipment. Therefore, it's popamole consoltard shit. Not surprised since it's Obsidian. Tragic really.

What was good for a game specifically focused on stealth-based puzzles isn't good for an Infinity Engine clone?

 

[Sannom]

Commandos 2 & 3 did that and it was good for that game. For an RPG, it is too simplistic and indiscerning. Fixed radius (per character) doesn't discern between different perceptlve capabilities nor between sound and sight or equipment. Therefore, it's popamole consoltard shit. Not surprised since it's Obsidian. Tragic really.

Nope, the Commandos games has detection cones for the enemies, their efficiency depending on distance, rank and position, plus a sound radius for the characters. It was much more involved that what is proposed here, as it should be.

And where do you get that 'fixed value' from? He already said that it depended on the Stealth skill, is it so much of a stretch to imagine that it will also be affected by equipment?

 

[villain of the story]

I said fixed per character ie. stealth but eqıipment factoring into it? In a game inspired by IE series ie. simplistic crap. I'd be surprised.

And yes, sound radius is what I meant.

What was good for a game specifically focused on stealth-based puzzles isn't good for an Infinity Engine clone?

Don't be ridiculous. Commandos wasn't an RPG. There were no stats. In an RPG, You expect different characters to have different levels of hearing, sensing movement, sight, and different characters and equipment yto have different levels of making noise.

It's not even clear lf the model in PE takes into account light nor if we'll see the radius.

.As always, JA2 ls a great example to by. And that description doesn't reach it by any degree.

 

[Sannom]

I said fixed per character ie. stealth but eqıipment factoring into it? In a game inspired by IE series ie. simplistic crap. I'd be surprised.

The game is inspired by the IE games, but that stealth system has little to do with the IE implementation. I'm not getting what your problem is here, we already know the equipment will factor in how effective you are at stealth.

Don't be ridiculous. Commandos wasn't an RPG. There were no stats. In an RPG, You expect different characters to have different levels of hearing, sensing movement, sight, and different characters and equipment yto have different levels of making noise.

And that's how it works? Different levels in the stealth skill will influence the radius of detection, and the equipment will play a role too.

It's not even clear lf the model in PE takes into account light nor if we'll see the radius.

I don't think lighting was even mentioned as a factor, but I'm going to guess that it won't have any effect.

 

[Infinitron]

In an RPG, You expect different characters to have different levels of hearing, sensing movement, sight, and different characters and equipment yto have different levels of making noise.

I expect no such thing.

You seem to think that "RPG == stat-based reality simulation genre". No wonder you're constantly disappointed.

 

[Infinitron]

villain of the story Realize this - both RPGs and non-RPGs have "stats".

The difference is, in non-RPGs the stats are hidden, behind the scenes. They can be arbitrarily complex.

In RPGs, players can see the stats, which means they need to be human comprehensible. Human comprehensible means abstracted. And abstracted means, yes, simplified.

Don't you understand that you're chasing a white whale here? RPGs will never be what you want them to be.

 

[tindrli]

not that im proud of but i finally figured out what "IE" means

Internet Explorer?

believe me i thought about it as well

 

[Space Satan]

Commandos system is stil better than BG "see party member=>script drink potion of invisiblity=> go stab mage". And retarded backstabs.

 

[RK47]

The specific list may change, but the biggest difference players will notice in Attributes (compared to A/D&D ability scores) is that all of their bonuses are uniformly applied instead of being keyed to specific types of weapons or attacks. E.g. one Attribute affects bonus damage (and healing) and one affects bonus accuracy -- regardless of the weapons or spells being used.

SAWYEEEEEEEER!!!

No, I really, really don't like that design.

Yeah, that's Diablo 3-like design... he's one step away from a DPS stat.

They did that in DS3.
It wasn't good.

 

[May God Gently Caress You]

Commandos system is stil better than BG "see party member=>script drink potion of invisiblity=> go stab mage". And retarded backstabs.

And good thing is, since it is an RPG, if some people are not interested in stealth gameplay, they don't need to spend a single point in the stealth skill and just play the game, ignoring the new feature.

 

[villain of the story]

I expect no such thing.

You seem to think that "RPG == stat-based reality simulation genre". No wonder you're constantly disappointed.

WAT

Simulation? WTF?

From Arcanum manual:

"Perception - Being the Character's general sensitivity and alertness to the immediate surroundings"

From Falluot manual:

"Perception. The ability to notice things. A combination of your senses, including touch, sight, taste, smell and hearing. Perception affects your ranged weapon distances, small details that you have a chance to notice and other sense related tasks. Perceptive characters will get more information about the world."

If you have no notion that stats should factor into one's perceptive capabilities in a way that there is an interplay of variable stats between different entities, then the RP of G has completely gone over your head.

villain of the story Realize this - both RPGs and non-RPGs have "stats".

The difference is, in non-RPGs the stats are hidden, behind the scenes. They can be arbitrarily complex.

In RPGs, players can see the stats, which means they need to be human comprehensible. Human comprehensible means abstracted. And abstracted means, yes, simplified.

Don't you understand that you're chasing a white whale here? RPGs will never be what you want them to be.

I don't understand where you got the idea or the inspiration to tell me this. It is so irrelevant and out of place. Hello, this is RPG Codex, right? Of course both have stats, the difference being that stats in RPGs are variable, influenced or changed by the player and they are usually per character not per fixed enemy templates. Unless a game gives you active influence over those stats, making such a comparison to non-RPGs is retarded.

 

[Infinitron]

WAT

Simulation? WTF?

From Arcanum manual:

"Perception - The ability for the character to notice his surroundings"

From Falluot manual:

"Perception. The ability to notice things. A combination of your senses, including touch, sight, taste, smell and hearing. Perception affects your ranged weapon distances, small details that you have a chance to notice and other sense related tasks. Perceptive characters will get more information about the world."

If you have no notion that stats should factor into one's perceptive capabilities in a way that there is an interplay of variable stats between different entities, then the RP of G has completely gone over your head.

"Boo hoo, the stat description lied to me because it doesn't affect stealth the way I think it should!"

I don't understand where you got the idea or the inspiration to tell me this. It is so irrelevant and out of place. Hello, this is RPG Codex, right? Of course both have stats, the difference being that stats in RPGs are variable per character not per "enemy template".

Notice that you didn't actually respond to my point.