RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Roguey]

Blame the "upper management". If you start to discuss something that's already covered in another thread your posts are moved or merged into a mega-thread, but GG and Anti-SJW bullshit? Oh, that can go anywhere - despite the fact that we have a sub-forum just for that.

This isn't "freedom of speech" and "no moderation", this is being stupid and try-hard. Like we're intentionally trying to look like the cesspool that people accuse us of being.

Normally those kinds of posts are moved/retardo'd but it looks as though Chris's new 'tude has inspired the administration to thumb their noses at the massive number of looky-loos checking out this thread. Can't take the heat, etc.

 

[Fry]

but GG and Anti-SJW bullshit? Oh, that can go anywhere - despite the fact that we have a sub-forum just for that.
This isn't "freedom of speech" and "no moderation", this is being stupid and try-hard. Like we're intentionally trying to look like the cesspool that people accuse us of being.

The Codex is exactly the cesspool it's accused of being. It's also rather obviously the best RPG forum on the internet.

It's a shame in a way that this thread won't be viewed and debated more widely exactly because this place is what it is, but that's the choice that's apparently been made, so...

As ever, I find Infinitron's efforts to make the world take the Codex seriously both hopelessly quixotic and admirable.

 

[Infinitron]

While Obsidian has survived and had successes, it has had a number of bleak times, and it's nothing compared to what the company could have been. No one had to be laid off. Projects didn't have to be cancelled. We didn't have to alienate publishers. We could have had better spending and feedback practices.

Alternative, more nuanced hypothesis: While Obsidian has made errors, its problems developing a strategy for success are fundamentally a consequence of unlucky timing. Obsidian wanted to be BioWare 2.0, but by the time they set up shop, the studio strategy that made BioWare was no longer viable. There was no more Interplay. Budgets were up. There were consoles, 3D, voice acting and cinematics instead of a warm safe PC-exclusive Baldur's Gate cocoon to grow up in. It was a whole different ball game.

 

[toro]

... snip ...

I agree. There are 170 jobs on the line. I have no issue with Feargus's reputation getting destroyed but after this shitshow is over no publisher will be eager to collaborate with Obsidian. On short term: I bet some people are dusting off their CVs and prepare to jump ship. On long term: if PoE2 or Project Indiana are not resounding successes then they are in deep shit and each one of them will leave the company before Feargus.

I'm pretty sure there will be other repercussions for MCA like for example: who the fuck will hire someone with a past record of spewing a business's dirty laundry in public? I know I would not.

Also Josh is fucked because now Feargus knows that Josh simply ignores him. An insecure little boss like him will never forgive such an indiscretion. Give it a few more weeks and the knives will be out.

As for MCA, I think I know the type: professional, pro-active and result-oriented but without the guts needed for politics or a keen sense for self-preservation. He thought that he can do his job without getting dirty but in reality there is no such thing: either you adapt and you start dancing with the beast or you leave. The only way to fix an incompetent upper management is to complete replace it ... which in this case is not possible.

On the other hand, I have no doubt that he is telling us the truth but I honestly think that his frustration with Feargus won big time and now he is doing this shit just to fuck with Obsidian before PoE2's release while in fact he has not clear goal for what he is doing and he will not feel better after he is done. There is also a faint smell of cowardice considering that it only took him 3 years to decide to fight the big, scary and evil Feargus. Just FYI: this righteous fight was already lost 3 years ago.

Anyway, we don't have the entire story. The entire "de-ownering" story is simply bullshit. There is another possibility that MCA has some real dirt on Feargus and this "interview" is just a more subtle form of blackmail but I don't want to think about that.

 

[Sentinel]

I don't think fucking with Obsidian was his main goal. If MCA truly wanted to fuck with Obsidian he a) wouldn't do it the week before PoE2 releases; b) wouldn't do it on the codex, because he knows no major publication will pick up on the story because a) they're on Obsidian's payroll for the reviews; b) they're not gonna quote the Codex ever

 

[Mustawd]

If he really wanted to fuck PoE2 he'd email Rock Paper Shotgun, IGN, Gamespot and whatever other publications are covering PoE2 these days.

 

[Edmund Spenser]

I feel like it's time to address this particular elephant: Chris Avellone was the impending release of Deadfire at all relevant to your coming forward? It's the largest criticism being leveled at you across several outlets, I think.

 

[Kingston]

Chris, what were you doing 19 days ago?

https://www.comparably.com/companies/obsidian-entertainment

What do people at Obsidian Entertainment think about the CEO? What do they do well and what can they improve?

Tough because there’s 4 owners and it’s hard to tell who’s in charge except for main CEO – of the 4, 1’s involved (which is sometimes good, but not always), 1 (the main CEO) is half-involved (when involved on projects, he’s can be helpful but can slow everything down with approvals), and the other two you don’t see much of and if involved on a project, it’s hard to tell what they’re doing on it (programming). The worst words to hear are “let me think it over” or “let me think on it” which means your question or request is likely never to be answered. They would do well to promote better and be honest about titles when hiring, often unclear how to get ahead and feedback is poor (reviews are hit or miss)
Answered 5 months ago


Leadership is completely entrenched in old ideas and micromanagement. Any sense of "open" structure is an utter farce – leadership has no time for you on a personal level (despite the façade of an ‘open door policy) meanwhile getting involved on a microscopic level on projects and not allowing the talent they have to shine. Massive nepotism. Owners have explicitly said they don’t read reviews and decide raises based on their opinion of you. Due to micromanagement, leadership causes massive delays in projects due to midnight hour decisions or pivoting.
Answered 19 days ago

If you could make changes, how would you improve the culture at Obsidian Entertainment?

Get out of the way of your top talent, and hire top talent to fill in where leadership is lacking. Establish adequate training and career progression. Lose the nepotism. Explore new ideas
Answered 19 days ago

What's the interview process like at Obsidian Entertainment?

Depends on department - design and programming both test heavily, production doesn't seem to test for anything, it is easy for producers to get hired
Answered 19 days ago

What part of Obsidian Entertainment's business is growing fastest? What part is having difficulties?

Fastest growing part of the business: company debt and owner friend hires. Difficulties: finances, although not always transparent to employees.
Answered 19 days ago

What are you most excited about working at Obsidian Entertainment?

Most excited about not working there any longer
Answered 19 days ago

 

[Sentinel]

 

[Mustawd]

Leadership is completely entrenched in old ideas and micromanagement. Any sense of "open" structure is an utter farce – leadership has no time for you on a personal level (despite the façade of an ‘open door policy)

Look at this fancy dude using a "ç"

 

[Ezeekiel]

The Codex is exactly the cesspool it's accused of being.

The Codex could never possibly be as much of a cesspool as it's accused of being, even if we tried *really* hard.
Besides, we don't have enough convicted pedos, rapists and murderers on here to so much as match the "better" forums.

It's a shame in a way that this thread won't be viewed and debated more widely exactly because this place is what it is, but that's the choice that's apparently been made, so...

It's being debated among the usual suspects anyway.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

And this fanbois defending blindly Obsidian should instead ask for clarification because in the end if is true what Avellone says and i am incline to believe him Fergus needs to step down or be more Ethic because according to what Chris says i believe him is a problem on the company. Interesting fact Obsidian is not answerring or is not denying this is a prof they are in damage control.

 

[aweigh]

Codex is one of the very few places with a genuine approach to freedom of speech, even though such a thing does not actually exist. It goes beyond lack of moderation and stops short of encouragement. The age old adage of giving enough rope to hang yourself holds true: this means that it's a forum where people don't play at being the devil's advocate but inhabit the position naturally; this is a fundamentally important aspect of discourse.

 

[Chris Avellone]

Chris, what were you doing 19 days ago?

https://www.comparably.com/companies/obsidian-entertainment

I'm not familiar with the site, but some of those lines are almost verbatim of one of the reviews on Glassdoor (the 2nd review, past the featured review). If so, I would treat it with a grain of salt unless the points are echoed frequently in other reviews (but even then, I'd get other sources).

 

[Mustawd]

Codex is one of the very few places with a genuine approach to freedom of speech, even though such a thing does not actually exist. It goes beyond lack of moderation and stops short of encouragement. The age old adage of giving enough rope to hang yourself holds true: this means that it's a forum where people don't play at being the devil's advocate but inhabit the position naturally; this is a fundamentally important aspect of discourse.

Who fucking wrote that for you?

 

[The_Mask]

Chris Avellone - I know this is completely off-topic at the moment, but it has been asked: Have you played any of the Soulsborne games? (Demons' Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3)

If yes, what is your opinion on their RPG aspects of telling a story through the environment, traces of lore and item descriptions - even with the heavily accented stamina-management action style that it has.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

The Codex is exactly the cesspool it's accused of being.

Just like the rest of the internet.

It's a shame in a way that this thread won't be viewed and debated more widely exactly because this place is what it is, but that's the choice that's apparently been made, so...

That was just an excuse to ignore Avellone's criticisms. The fact that you bought it tells more about your lack of confidence in the Codex than about the facts.

 

[Chris Avellone]

I agree. There are 170 jobs on the line. I have no issue with Feargus's reputation getting destroyed but after this shitshow is over no publisher will be eager to collaborate with Obsidian.

I think they will if there's money to be made, for sure - although the publisher will be more likely to check the burn rate and the accounting while doing so, which would be a good thing - and they would also probably keep a closer eye on where the employee efforts are going (employee shifts are hard to do when you've got a publisher producer actually working in an office in the developer's company).

Also, despite all the publishers Obsidian cycled through, they've always managed to find another - I just wish they could have kept one relationship intact, as I think it would have benefited both the studio and the publisher.

Without some change, I do think turning to self-publishing will end up being the only long-term solution, though.

 

[Tom Selleck]

Given a world where we have relatively cheap and easy access to: Twine, GameMaker Studio, RPG Maker, AGS, NWN Modules, etc. What would be the most responsible and effective way to generate a body of narrative design work in order to be hired by Obsidian work as a narrative designer, and someday be able to freelance in (or not in) our underwear (and eventually spearhead a spiritual successor to Covert Ops: Nuclear Dawn on Indiegogo)?

 

[Roguey]

Chris Avellone not too long ago Obsidian said they tried and failed to both license and outright purchase Arcanum from Activison. Would you know if this is because the owners messed up as usual or if Activision just can't be bothered to put any effort in it and don't want others to potentially make money from it?

 

[fantadomat]

Given a world where we have relatively cheap and easy access to: Twine, GameMaker Studio, RPG Maker, AGS, NWN Modules, etc. What would be the most responsible and effective way to generate a body of narrative design work in order to be hired by Obsidian work as a narrative designer, and someday be able to freelance in (or not in) our underwear (and eventually spearhead a spiritual successor to Covert Ops: Nuclear Dawn on Indiegogo)?

Pink hair and tumblr career.

 

[Bohr]

If he really wanted to fuck PoE2 he'd email Rock Paper Shotgun, IGN, Gamespot and whatever other publications are covering PoE2 these days.

And I actually think it would have been much worse for Obsidian if this had all come out in the middle of a crowdfunding campaign, when they were having to answer a lot of questions from media and backers, in "good guys who need support" mode.

I doubt the average buyer of PoE will even have heard of this by release day, or care if they did.

 

[Infinitron]

Without some change, I do think turning to self-publishing will end up being the only long-term solution, though.

Would you consider that to be a failure on their part? It's also what Swen from Larian concluded, and achieved.

Clearly you place a lot of value in publisher relationships, perhaps because of all their intellectual property goodies you'd like to have had access to, but all other things being equal, getting to slam the phone on publishers actually sounds pretty cool.

 

[Fairfax]

While Obsidian has survived and had successes, it has had a number of bleak times, and it's nothing compared to what the company could have been. No one had to be laid off. Projects didn't have to be cancelled. We didn't have to alienate publishers. We could have had better spending and feedback practices.

Alternative, more nuanced hypothesis: While Obsidian has made errors, its problems developing a strategy for success are fundamentally a consequence of unlucky timing. Obsidian wanted to be BioWare 2.0, but by the time they set up, the studio strategy that made BioWare was no longer viable. There was no more Interplay, there was consoles, 3D, voice acting and cinematics instead of a PC-exclusive Baldur's Gate cocoon to make your bones in, it was a whole different ballgame.

Timing has nothing to do with mismanagement and alienating publishers. Obsidian also had no shortage of luck from the start. They got the KOTOR2 and NWN2 contracts with engines ready to go and royalties solely thanks to BioWare. Their reputation from the BIS days wouldn't have existed without BioWare's Infinity Engine and BG's success either. If they'd had to earn their gigs and use their own tech (like Troika did), the new trends most certainly would've made them struggle, but they had too many opportunities and talent for timing to be an excuse.

Also, they did get royalties from a couple of projects, but I stand by the rest, especially after everything MCA said in this thread:

Their best period was 2009-2011. In terms of talent the studio was its peak, and they had (though not simultaneously) FNV, Alpha Protocol, Dungeon Siege III, Aliens, South Park, and Stormlands to work on. A very popular RPG series and a less popular one, 2 pop culture licences and 2 original AAA projects. All great opportunities to become as successful as the biggest RPG studios. However, in true Obsidian fashion, they botched most of them, and in 2012 they almost went bankrupt.

Obsidian's financial troubles came down to the fact they lived from contract to contract. They didn't own anything they created and didn't make money from sales. They depended entirely on publishers, and after a while, none of them were interested anymore. RPGs are inherently more expensive than most games, and Obsidian had become too risky of a gamble. If you pay Obsidian to make a game for you, you never know what you'll get. You hope you'll get a FNV, but it could be a NWN2, a DS3, or a Stormlands. PoE restored some of their reputation, which made Paradox gamble on them with Tyranny, but look at how that went. In short, the most reliable thing about Obsidian is the fact they're unreliable.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

He keeps writing entire self-congratulatory paragraphs about how he was always standing up for the little guy in the trenches, while his actual actions are doing anything but. I don't know what complex it is, but it's some complex all right

I'm not saying he's perfect or that I agree that everything he's disclosed is for some noble purpose. However, a lot of the things he's talked about can lead to positive change at Obsidian, if only through public pressure inside and outside the company. If had NOT said anything these practices would just continue as business as usual.

The issues about poor treatment of employees and bad management needed to be aired, and it's good that he's done that. Nobody has a problem with that, me included.

Unfortunately, he seems also determined to get Obsidian in trouble with their various clients. And that's another story entirely. That cannot lead to positive change, that's just him trying to stick it to Feargus, while living in some deranged lunacy that sticking it to Feargus by any means necessary is helping the average schmuck at Obsidian. But that's not what this leads to. It leads to Obsidian struggling to get new contracts and it leads to people getting fired, all while our guy is self-sucking and fantasizing about being a working class hero.

What records does he set straight exactly by leaking Indiana info, a game he never even worked on? What records does he set straight by leaking info that some people are planning to quit, presumably before even asking them if it's okay to leak it?

What info are you referring to? When he answered my question about Project Indiana he did not mention any details.

See my last night's exchange with him that ended up with him having a meltdown. He claims to have some information about Project Indiana funds being mismanaged and having some budgetary issues, and he has hallucinated himself into the idea that he is actually supporting the Indiana team by leaking this. Which again, is a complete lunacy.

Plus you know, just 2 days ago he was saying that while at Obsidian it was nigh-impossible for him to get any financial data, figure out where the money is going or who is employed where and is doing what. But 3 years after leaving the company, he apparently has accurate information about fine print details of the budget of the game that hasn't even been officially announced yet.

Seems that our master storyteller has lost the ability to create coherent plots.