Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

Goral

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
3,570
Location
Poland
Chris Avellone
Has Obsidian lawyers contacted with you yet? Blink twice if you can't say.

there probably are more edgy sites that would print his words as is (for example, the Codex)
I don't see this on the front page. Also, suggesting that Codex is edgy suggests that you don't belong here.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,786
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
I don't see this on the front page. Also, suggesting that Codex is edgy suggests that you don't belong here.

In Infinitron's eye, anyone who says mean things about Obsidian, Larian, CDPR, HBS, PB et al. or any of their games is being an edgelord. I'm not sure if inXile is still under his protection after they've disgraced themselves so many times.

424440df64.png


BTW, this is also how Infinitron has rated all of my posts critical of Obsidian, Larian, CDPR, HBS, PB et al. or any of their games.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
2,071
Location
Siberia
Missed some of the best dex content to date, if only by a few hours.

pezgM.gif


As far as personal experience is concerned, I'v worked in entertainment/advertising industry for about 5 years now in various capacities and it's shocking how hilariously inept most 'upper-management' types are at... well, managing. Granted, most of the time they make up for it in other ways (those qualities are usually much more desirable for owners, not employees), but still. I'm yet to see an efficient pipeline, it's especially surprising when it happens in well established studios/companies that are on a market for 10+ years.

It gets even weirder and funnier the bigger the company in question gets, the industry giants are just too big to fail, so it breeds a completely ridiculous work environment, sometimes in a fun way, but usually not.
 
Last edited:

Sensuki

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
9,832
Location
New North Korea
Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Oh yes, every games writer's worst nightmare, the prospect of consequences from Obsidian Entertainment.

Obsidian get treated pretty well by the gaming media, and I imagine when they are paying for a PR push it would likely include avoidance of negative articles by involved sites during said push. We'll see anyway.
 

HoboForEternity

LIBERAL PROPAGANDIST
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
9,420
Location
liberal utopia in progress
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
New Vegas is special to me, playing it in 2012 opened my eyes to "real" RPGs and was my gateway into Black Isle and Troika. Reading Chris Avellone's comments about the Gonzales/Fenstermaker beef and everything just kills me, because I've always imagined pre-layoffs Obsidian as mythical heroes slain by a greed-driven industry, not some dysfunctional, selfdestructing as the rest
this is all me too.

Seriously, while entertaining, it is a little sad that the people that made the game that introduce me to a whole new genre of experience exposed. It is half sad, half revelatory of the nature of the business. It wont change i how regard new vegas, it will still be dear to me, but it does gave me a new point of view.
 
Last edited:

Prime Junta

Guest
I don't see this on the front page. Also, suggesting that Codex is edgy suggests that you don't belong here.

In Infinitron's eye, anyone who says mean things about Obsidian, Larian, CDPR, HBS, PB et al. or any of their games is being an edgelord. I'm not sure if inXile is still under his protection after they've disgraced themselves so many times.

424440df64.png


BTW, this is also how Infinitron has rated all of my posts critical of Obsidian, Larian, CDPR, HBS, PB et al. or any of their games.

reported for :retarded: harvesting
 

Father Foreskin

Learned
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
167
POE2 Will be a decent 6/10 game. There is no reason to shit on it despite all of this. We can just give Feargus&co the Fargo ceremony and move on.
 

Maculo

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
2,593
Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Wow. I do not know what else to say. I have work to do and clients to call, but this damn thread comes first.
 

HoboForEternity

LIBERAL PROPAGANDIST
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
9,420
Location
liberal utopia in progress
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It is almost/early worktime in California iirc.

I wonder what they are talking about atm.

I wonder too if avellone gonna wake up, hungover, have this thread open on his computer, empty bottle of whisky on the side of the monitor and he says "what the fuck!?"

Goes on an adventure hangover movie style.

But it might be a sober, thought decision simply because it's pent up inside the last 4 years, and someone can only take so much.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,942
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
There is no forgiving anyone in Obsidian management after hearing their actions during and after New Vegas, their best game and some of the best writing in gaming in general. They have sabotaged talent and they have given completely into inane work place politics. It's petty and a disgrace. All to attain some misguided failing visions of few talking heads, who couldn't care less about the medium or the creativity in it.
 
Last edited:

dragonul09

Arcane
Edgy
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,446
I don't see this on the front page. Also, suggesting that Codex is edgy suggests that you don't belong here.

In Infinitron's eye, anyone who says mean things about Obsidian, Larian, CDPR, HBS, PB et al. or any of their games is being an edgelord. I'm not sure if inXile is still under his protection after they've disgraced themselves so many times.

424440df64.png


BTW, this is also how Infinitron has rated all of my posts critical of Obsidian, Larian, CDPR, HBS, PB et al. or any of their games.

He does that with everyone, either this fucker gets paid to shill or he's a bum with no life that stays 24/7 on forums copy pasting crap from one site to another, I think both of these allegations are true.
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
You know Chris Avellone I admire you very much.
Not becuse of your past works or your creative talent.

But because you behaved like a real man, and gave a big FUCK YOU to the dipshit extraordinaire at Obshitian and the massive Cuckoldry Pact they tried to enforce on you despite the financial strain and family issues.

And you made it out.

:salute:

"Notice me senpai!!!"
When someone "outed" me as posting on Something Awful a few pages back, I won't lie, I felt a brief rush of excitement that the extra attention paid to me in the thread might cause Avellone or Fenstermaker to notice me
 

markec

Twitterbot
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
51,027
Location
Croatia
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Dead State Project: Eternity Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
POE2 Will be a decent 6/10 game. There is no reason to shit on it despite all of this. We can just give Feargus&co the Fargo ceremony and move on.

I actually agree with this, you should judge the game by its own merit not by people who made it.

Then again even if it's the best RPG ever made it would still never get my money.
 

santino27

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
2,784
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I firmly believed in these expectations, I believed in titles, lead roles, and responsibilities – not to be limited by them, but “this is the foundation of what you should do.” If you’re doing the job, you get the title (including folks like Eric, who were continuously denied a Creative Lead role due more to politics than what they were actually doing).

But - I was told 8 years into the process that this was irrelevant, and that what guidelines I established for designers and lead designers (of every category) wasn’t worthwhile – this was conveyed to me by Feargus. As he told me, giving expectations for every position was, in fact, wrong. Feargus doesn’t give expectations to his producers - nor should we in other departments, as owners. I didn’t have a good response to this at first because I was genuinely shocked.

I argued my case (since his response was a surprise – and the very late response after so many years genuinely surprised me), and I lost – he simply said to provide expectations for each role was the wrong thing to do because “people will only do the expectations you lay out” which is a dim view of human nature. And it says an unfortunate amount about who we hired.

So – to say it, and I covered this in presentations on hiring: I don’t believe “people only do the littlest required” if you’ve hired the right people and plus, assigning roles and responsibilities solves a lot of problems before they become problems. I did feel I was alone in this aspect, but it seemed self-evident to me - give people the title, the responsibility, and the least of your expectations, and good people will do amazing things beyond anything you could dictate to them.

But I was surprised by his late-term response, his lack of faith in design, and I was disheartened by it. Everything I had been coaching and trying to develop as a foundation had been struck out in one, casual and dismissive, 5-minute conversation.

It’s worth noting that after this occurred, I got accused by a number of designers as “not enforcing the expectations more.” I told them that the expectations had been overruled for every position and was now catch-as-catch-can for each project.

* These expectations, however, are now apparently in use today, because it’s not what they were about, but who speaks to them – which is a topic for another time. In my opinion, the truest test of a manager is they treat the facts they are evaluating as facts, not judging them based on the person relating those facts. True story from a DS3 designer (who left for Blizzard after Stormlands) - we did one not-so-amusing test of this during Dungeon Siege 3, where we had two people tell Feargus the exact same thing, and he dismissed one out of hand, but gladly listened and agreed with the other – even though they were both telling him the exact same thing. At that point, I did break a little inside, but I added it to my manager post-mortem of what not to do as a manager.

While I don't disagree with your management strategy, even if it never apparently got fully implemented, reading between the lines here and in your previous posts makes it pretty obvious that you had a philosophical falling out with the other owners well before your departure and were likely a disgruntled and disaffected source of conflict from that point on. ("I told them that the expectations had been overruled for every position and was now catch-as-catch-can for each project." is the definition of passive agressive conflict-mongering, imo.)

I don't blame you for that--I've been in that situation too and it's very, very difficult to feel like you're being held accountable for someone else's decisions--but when one of the owners decides to take their toys and go home (before they actually quit), it makes for a pretty crappy work environment and can end up poisoning the well long before the relationship itself is ended.

Anyway, I have 9 more pages to read now, and I'm sure you'll have more posts in them, but I wanted to get my shitpost farming in asap. ;)
 

Maculo

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
2,593
Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Can we get back to the core issues here....such as the Arcanum play-through?

Tired, old jokes aside, after reading Avellone's posts, I am really confused how Obsidian is structured. I didn't realize Fenstermaker was that prominent. Is Tim Cain also subject to this issue as well?
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,786
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
passive agressive conflict-mongering

Thought MCA started to do dat after his departure, seems it started well before that.

Did you also think he was the only one? It's the entire office, my dude.

We had a big gay Codex discussion a few months back about development teams full of B-type personalities and the many ways in which passive-aggressive nonsense is a way of life in such environments. I'm sure someone can dig it up.

It's probably drama central in there 24/7 when the cameras aren't rolling—not football team and cheerleader style drama, but debate team and anime club style drama.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom