Codex Interview RPG Codex Interview: Legends of Eisenwald, Turn Based Strategy/RPG

[Aterdux Entertainment]

We are not fooling anyone And in one paragraph it should be "tactics" and "no points of move" - basically you can move but you cannot move without striking someone.

 

[jewboy]

I think they need to do a better job explaining what is fun about the gameplay. I have never played a strategy/RPG hybrid before. I'm not too sure what to expect. I like that they have given some details however. At this point it looks like I will not be contributing to Shadowrun for that reason. I think I may contribute at the lowest tier to this one however. It looks like they will need it. They are not very close to reaching their goal right now. The combat looks interesting. I'd be curious if there is going to be a story arc or if it is just all combat. Combat for its own sake does tend to get kind of boring for me after a short time even when that combat is as potentially interesting as this may be.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

jewboy, of course it will not be just combat. In terms of story - there will be a story arc of course, combat for its own sake is boring indeed. Zed recommended to look at our Discord Times demo and in terms of story it will be somewhat similar.

 

[General Maxson]

Well someone from the codex with connections should help you put the word out, maybe on gamebanshee.com or something similar. Perhaps Brother None? :D

 

[hoverdog]

Aterdux are BROs because they're already brofisting

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

Well someone from the codex with connections should help you put the word out, maybe on gamebanshee.com or something similar. Perhaps Brother None? :D

Brother None and sea both write for GameBanshee and are nice guys to boot (not only by Codex standards).

 

[DwarvenFood]

Welcome to the Codex. Stay a while. Stay forever!

 

[Burning Bridges]

Welcome Aterdux!

 

[mondblut]

I know, it's basically like taking that godfather of popamole combat, Wizardy VII, then switching it to third person perspective. Disgusting, really. I don't know who they think they're fooling here.

Congrats, you just failed your genre-savviness exam.

One, Wizardry is a highly abstract RPG with a focus on dungeon crawling and watching those beautiful numbers go up. Combat therein is only a means to an end (something to make the stats increase) and an obstacle to overcome during dungeon exploration. This one is a strategy game with a focus on combat. Protip: something which works for one genre does not exactly work in another genre.

Two, nowhere in its 20 years run did Wizardry pretend to be "tactical" either (I know, I know, "tactical" is this year's buzzword, just like "C&C" was the last year and "immersive" the year before. In before an "immersive tactical romances" smash hit to appear on the shelves). Before it became this year's buzzword, "tactical blobber" used to be an oxymoron (and yes, here you are correct, a blobber switched to third person it is). A game without managing movement points, exploiting terrain etc is not tactical by definition, period.

Three, Wizardry at least has a random factor, both in specific tasks such as tohit and damage rolls, and general resolution such as who goes first. A game with no movement AND no random factor, like chess on a 4x3 grid, amirite? Thanks but no thanks. "Everyone gang up on the guy with the least hit points" is not something I would spend more than 3 minutes of my life at.

Also, Disciples was a fucking shame of turn-based strategies. I, for one, was happy it died an ignominous death, and would rather never see it resurrected.

 

[Terpsichore]

Wait for the combat video before bashing them.

 

[Shannow]

I found Wiz8 combat very tactical, but whatever.

Looking forward to the combat vid.


Edit: To create a buzz, use facebook and twitter (I'm sure Crooked Bee is already banging the drums for you). Try to get in contact with some sites that cover indie RPGs/RTSs. Apart from the already mentioned I'd try RPGWatch and RockPaperShotgun. Join "Kickitforward" and let successful other Kickstarter projects do a little promotion for you. If sites are not interested in putting you up as news, post a thread on their forums in which you present the project and yourselves.

 

[mondblut]

Wait for the combat video before bashing them.

You might wonder how could people judge games in the dark ages before jewtube, when they only had screenshots and written text to consider. Grim times indeed!

Also, I am bashing nothing. No random factor and Disciples combat is their own words. If that's good enough for you, well...

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

mondblut: First, you could easily say that Eisenwald is a game focused on exploration and conquest of the in-game world and watching those beautiful numbers go up (as your characters level up), combat being merely a means to an end and obstacle to overcome during the said exploration. It's equally sophistic as your argument.

Second, as usual, you first make your own definition of what a certain word means (in this case, "tactical") then proclaim it the only "correct". This of course you're free to do, but the rest of the world will probably stick to the definition where "tactical" usually implies making optimal decisions to win conflicts (movement and positioning is usually but not necessarily involved). In this manner, at least in my uneducated opinion, Wizardry's combat are tactical, although not in the same way as JA2's are.

Third, the randomness factor in Wizardry is I'd say indeed more interesting than the Disciples system (although in my lack of good taste I was able to tolerate that one, too), but I'd beg to point out that judging the Eisenwald combat system before one has actually seen it in some detail is a little preposterous.

Which was basically the point of my post. Lately, for an otherwise intelligent and interesting poster (if there was a KotC or Wizardry VII style game released today and you made a post claiming it was good, I'd but without even looking at it), your shtick with belittling everything that does not seem to be exactly your cup of tea has become not only a little old but also a lot less entertaining than it used to be. Or maybe it's just me, who knows.

Edit: typos.

 

[J_C]

Damn this game looks good. I like the art style and design, the gamepaly also looks promising. This is why I'm suprised that it has only 8000 dollars after 8 days. Why is this game is not in the news? Oh wait, because the mainstream media shits on these games. I hope they manage to get enough money to finish the game, it would be a waste if they wouldn't.

Also, if it is a bit similar to Disciples, I'm all in. Disciples 2 is one of my favourite turn based strategy games. It is on par with Heroes 2-3 for me.

 

[Crooked Bee]

On a side note, if anyone has any ideas how we can get to other gaming sites, please let us know - this area is not exactly our greatest expertise.

You should try contacting websites like RockPaperShotgun, Gamasutra, Eurogamer, Kotaku, etc., inform them about your project and ask them if they'd be willing to cover it. It's a long shot since the game is probably too niche and those sites are too mainstream (caring more about big names, shiny graphics and hipster indie titles than anything), but who knows.

 

[mondblut]

First, you could easily say that Eisenwald is a game focused on exploration and conquest of the in-game world and watching those beautiful numbers go up (as your characters level up), combat being merely a means to an end and and obstacle to overcome during the said exploration. It's equally sophistic as your argument.

Perhaps. Either way, a blobber combat is a purely RPG mechanic. Strategy games throughout history used either fully abstracted number comparison, or some version of a proper tactical combat with movement and terrain, the only exception being that shit Disciples game, and I am one to put my trust in history.

the rest of the world will probably stick to the definition where "tactical" usually implies making optimal decisions to win conflicts (movement and positioning is usually but necessarily involved).

That's just in, Tetris and Arkanoid are tactical. What could be more tactical than lining up a bunch of lines to destroy them all with one | block, or sending a ball beyond the brick wall to rampage inside?

Lately, for an otherwise intelligent and interesting poster (if there was a KotC or Wizardry VII style game released today and you made a post claiming it was good, I'd but without even looking at it), your shtick with belittling everything that does not seem to be exactly your cup of tea has become not only a little old but also a lot less entertaining than it used to be.

I tried traversing the path of "good for what it is", and found it not to my liking. Bear with it.

 

[Brother None]

Buck already picked it up. We loved our indies on GB. We could talk interview if you want, Aterdux peeps.

On a side note, if anyone has any ideas how we can get to other gaming sites, please let us know - this area is not exactly our greatest expertise.

Kickstarter is very, VERY dense now, which makes it difficult to get coverage. But you've got a lot going for you. Much more to show than most, a reasonably set goal, a good start in pledges. Craft a press package. I noticed your press release on the GamesPress wire, but only because I looked for it. Maybe polish it up a little, add in some screenshots, and mail it directly to websites. I've got a decent list of your standard "news submit" emails, though I'd have to check them for currentness, if you haven't already.

Then, select a few sites and contact them directly, talking about the press pack you just sent, and asking if they'll be interested in coverage, possibly interviews, whatever. Invest a little more personal interest because it guarantees coverage. Key sites would be, for instances, Rock Paper Shotgun, Eurogamer, VG247. Not because they're necessarily "the best" or biggest, but because they actually care about projects of this scope, and/or occupy key nodes. Once you got sites like these covering you, the likes of "good people" sites like Evil Avatar, Ripten, Strategy Informer will follow fairly quickly. Honestly, once you've got key sites paying attention to you, a lot of others will automatically follow. It's a very incestuous industry. It's that first step that's the hardest.

I don't know if I can be a huge help here. I have good contacts with a few sites but my contacts have mostly eroded. I'll poke around, should be able to get a handful of sites to do a post.

But honestly, I'd focus on RPS first. Mail Alec Meer (alec@rockpapershotgun.com, he's the RPG and strategy etc guy), chuck him your press release, a bunch of screenshots. Be honest in why you think it's worth RPS' attention. If you've then got an RPS newspost and this Codex interview to link to for a follow-up, wider press release, that'd be huge to get sites to cover it. RPS has a lot of clout.

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

That's just in, Tetris and Arkanoid are tactical. What could be more tactical than lining up a bunch of lines to destroy them all with one | block, or sending a ball beyond the brick wall to rampage inside?

If you want to argue that there's some sort of "conflict" involved in Arkanoid between you and the wall, which you're trying to "win", why not. It's the opposite of your own definition of "tactical"; compared to how most people use the term, this one's too broad, while the original one is too narrow. Perhaps we can leave it at that Disciples combat is not tactical enough for your liking.

I tried traversing the path of "good for what it is", and found it not to my liking. Bear with it.

I have no real problem with it. If you're happy with the quality of your criticism, all is well.

 

[mondblut]

If you want to argue that there's some sort of "conflict" involved in Arkanoid between you and the wall, which you're trying to "win", why not. It's the opposite of your own definition of "tactical"; compared to how most people use the term, this one's too broad, while the original one is too narrow.

Actually, until last week or so, most people used the term "tactical" for the likes of JA, Steel Panthers or, at worst, FFT and similar jap crap whose primary difference from the other kind of jap crap is that you actually get to move your pieces across the board.

Then the Grimrock devs revealed that strafing around a monster is "tactical combat", and another time-honored gaming definition was gone.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

Brother None, thank you for your very helpful post, this information is very much appreciated! Strategy Informer did already an article for us as the first one I think, and we got on some German sites too like PCGames.

 

[G.O.D]

It's true that in Disciples you often have to through the same obvious paterns (like who to attack for instance) especially later when you got your party ugraded.
But to call it complete crap is not justified i think.
It depends on how you set up your party, and of what units the enemy party is formed, and their abilities, initiative, wards, damage, immunities, etc.
So in that perspective you have to be tactical and think ahead and adjust, and from time to time make fairly tough choices.
And your actions on the map also factor in.

For sure there are games that are alot more tactical, but one likes it, or doesn't, that's understandable, but i can't agree it's a complete fail.
Alot of the flaws also has to do with the AI, that is mediocre, but for multiplayer it does a good job.

Or maybe it's just me i don't know.. probably has to do with interpretation i guess.

 

[mbpopolano24]

Although I prefer combat when you actually can move and use the environment, I have played and loved Disciples 2 immensely. I think what G.O.D. said is true, a lot of the 'tactics' depend on your party, abilities, and how to use items. And in D2 we only had 2 rows to position our units (6 units max), whereas in this new game they said 2 will be available (12 units). So, I guess it CAN be tactical, but of course it will depend on how they implement it.

Aterdux, you really need to improve the tiers in your Kickstarter page. Look at what other projects did (there are so many good ones), it should not be that hard. I pledged already and as long as you don't fuck up the battle system, I think this is actually one of the best projects right now. I am sorry it is slow to pick up.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Aterdux Entertainment

Like many have said before me I would like to see a more detailed explanation of the tactical combat. Ideally this should be in a detailed combat video. Your art style is imo 10/10 but the combat is a major concern.

I am also concerned about developers from "Russia" who start out with wonderful ideas but then fail to deliver a flawless product (for whatever reasons, obstinacy one of them).

Of course I also know that many Russians are very hard working dedicated guys, so it would be a good idea to introduce your people and the strengths they have, so we can judge the potential.

As I said, you already have many strengths to bring to the table, an excellent art style, a working alpha version, some obviously very dedicated and "bro" people, so you should proliferate that and also remove and doubts / weaknesses.

I hope this shows that I want you guys to succeed (getting over the 50k limit still absolutely on the table), no matter if I pledge on kickstarter or order the game later, to deliver a first rate game (with interesting and engaging combat).

And please don't let any pungent comments drag you down (they will be coming), we absolutely love such games to succeed, we've just all been dissappointed many times before and quickly smell the signs of failure.

RPGCodex is only a small community, but this could be exactly the type of game that many codexers would eventually pledge, and I guess something in the range of 10,000$ could come from RPGCodex pledges alone.

 

[Burning Bridges]

And one completely unimportant, silly little detail, but afaik Eisenwald is a german word, and I cringe when it's pronounced "Ysen-wault"

http://german.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=german&cdn=education&tm=4&f=00&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http://www.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php

 

[mikaelis]

It looks like it may be catching some wind. 10,5k as of now. Around 3k in a last 24 hours as far as I remember. Hopefully a couple of bigger sites will pick it up in a next couple of days.

EDIT:
Another 1,5k in just under an hour! I am starting to feel more relaxed now about their 50k goal