Editorial RPG Codex Report: The Vision Behind Might & Magic X Legacy

[HiddenX]

pay $30-$50 to find out whether a game is shitty or not? I'll wait until it hits the discount bin. Just like I will with M&MX.

30 € for a MM 10 preorder + soundtrack + MM 6 is a fair price. All previews indicate it is at least a mediocre classic crpg in the tradition of MM 4-7.
Pontential for more is there. Releasing a demo version and asking the fans for enhancement suggestions is not a bad thing IMHO.

 

[Excidium]

Fuck grid inventories. Nothing is better for the purposes of listing things than the things' actual names

Inventories aren't just lists of what you have. They're also management interfaces. You need to organize your items, move them around, decide what to keep and what to drop, transfer them to containers or to other characters, etc. All of this is more intuitive with a multi-dimensional array of items.

Eeh...I don't think so. Lists can be sorted in a lot of ways. P. easily too. Icon inventories eventually becomes a soup of small shit you have to look around to guess what's what

 

[Metro]

Jesus, you'll argue about anything. You can sort a grid based inventory, too. And it's a lot more friendlier to a mouse-based/optimized UI.

 

[Excidium]

I don't really see how to be honest. You have to stop thinking from old keyboard-based games with super limited screen space or modern console games where everything has to be fuckhueg to be seen from across the living room.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't really see how to be honest. You have to stop thinking from old keyboard-based games with super limited screen space or modern console games where everything has to be fuckhueg to be seen from across the living room.

A list is one dimensional and typically automatically sorted. You can't "designate space" for different types of things like you can in a grid. For instance, in NWN, I typically have quest items in the top left of my grid, wands and other consumables at the bottom left, a separate tab for loot I wanna sell, another one for unidentified items, etc. How do you do that in a list?

The biggest problem with lists is that they get cluttered with shit you have to scroll through. Furthermore, that shit typically has non-descript names that repeat themselves or are very similar to each other, so it's hard to distinguish between what you want to sell and what you want to keep.

 

[Excidium]

I don't really see how to be honest. You have to stop thinking from old keyboard-based games with super limited screen space or modern console games where everything has to be fuckhueg to be seen from across the living room.

A list is one dimensional and typically automatically sorted. You can't "designate space" for different types of things like you can in a grid. For instance, in NWN, I typically have quest items in the top left of my grid, wands and other consumables at the bottom left, a separate tab for loot I wanna sell, another one for unidentified items, etc. How do you do that in a list?

Tabs? Sorting for different item types or states, customizable, etc? Can even easily put a search box too if it's a game with retarded amounts of loot to warrant that.

The biggest problem with lists is that they get cluttered with shit you have to scroll through so quickly. Furthermore, that shit typically has non-descript names that repeat themselves or are very similar to each other, so it's hard to distinguish between what you want to sell and what you want to keep.

Because icons do a much better job at that.

 

[Infinitron]

Because icons do a much better job at that.

But they do. I never have to second guess myself when selling loot from a grid inventory. Because I've organized my inventory in advance so that all the sellables are grouped together.

When I'm clicking through a fucking list, I'm always worried about accidentally selling something I wanted, because it becomes a haze of suspiciously similar words. "Iron Sword *click* Iron Sword *click* Iron Sword *click* Steel Sword *click* Steel Sword *click*".

You need to stop thinking of inventories as some kind of read only spreadsheet, they're a bit more complex than that.

 

[Excidium]

When I'm clicking through a fucking list, I'm always worried about accidentally selling something I wanted, because it becomes a haze of suspiciously similar words. "Iron Sword *click* Iron Sword *click* Iron Sword *click* Steel Sword *click* Steel Sword *click*".

Well for every person that can't read there's 10 who don't organize their grid inventories and commit the same mistake.

You need to stop thinking of inventories as some kind of read only spreadsheet, they're a bit more complex than that.

That's why you have all those neat functions for sorting things.

 

[Lancehead]

Agree with Excidium, UI with lists should work fine as long as you use the screen space well, and integrate the lists with rest of the UI elements. One could look at Football Manager for some inspiration.

You need to stop thinking of inventories as some kind of read only spreadsheet, they're a bit more complex than that.

That's why you have all those neat functions for sorting things.

Not just sorting but creating also. E.g. create a new tab "vendor trash", and drag and drop the relevant items.

 

[Grunker]

Fuck grid inventories. Nothing is better for the purposes of listing things than the things' actual names

Inventories aren't just lists of what you have. They're also management interfaces. You need to organize your items, move them around, decide what to keep and what to drop, transfer them to containers or to other characters, etc. All of this is more intuitive with a multi-dimensional array of items.

Eeh...I don't think so. Lists can be sorted in a lot of ways. P. easily too. Icon inventories eventually becomes a soup of small shit you have to look around to guess what's what

Lists can never, ever give you a full overview in one screen. That makes them strictly inferior to grids, and that's the extension of that discussion, really.

 

[Excidium]

Fuck grid inventories. Nothing is better for the purposes of listing things than the things' actual names

Inventories aren't just lists of what you have. They're also management interfaces. You need to organize your items, move them around, decide what to keep and what to drop, transfer them to containers or to other characters, etc. All of this is more intuitive with a multi-dimensional array of items.

Eeh...I don't think so. Lists can be sorted in a lot of ways. P. easily too. Icon inventories eventually becomes a soup of small shit you have to look around to guess what's what

Lists can never, ever give you a full overview in one screen. That makes them strictly inferior to grids, and that's the extension of that discussion, really.

What? It's the other way around. With a list you can easily see the item's name and all important information at a glance. How do you record your gear in your character sheets, you make drawings?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Lists are for faggots and communists.

 

[commie]

Lists are for true RPG afficinados, grids are for Diablo loving degenerates.

 

[Roguey]

In an ideal world RPG inventories would have the functionality of ~Windows Explorer~.

 

[felipepepe]

How do you record your gear in your character sheets, you make drawings?

Dã, obviously.

You're just butthurt that you can't draw.

 

[Grunker]

What? It's the other way around. With a list you can easily see the item's name and all important information at a glance.

A list must be scrolled through and has no graphical advantage. A grid can display everything for you at once on one screen and you can sort it as you will.

How do you record your gear in your character sheet

You be damned sure I would manage it on a grid if it was as easy as on a computer.

How do you manage your bags when travelling? You write a list and scroll through it before opening the bag?

 

[Excidium]

What? It's the other way around. With a list you can easily see the item's name and all important information at a glance.

A list must be scrolled through and has no graphical advantage. A grid can display everything for you at once on one screen and you can sort it as you will.

How do you record your gear in your character sheet

You be damned sure I would manage it on a grid if it was as easy as on a computer.

How do you manage your bags when travelling? You write a list and scroll through it before opening the bag?

Lists are

Says you. Scroll? The smallest resolution games come nowadays can comfortably list more than you ever need. No graphical advantage? Seeing all relevant information at a glance as opposed to inspecting shit one by one is not an advantage? Not to mention all the simple ways lists can be arranged.

Lists sure as hell are a lot easier to manage. Unless you're illiterate.

 

[Infinitron]

Excidium Again, you don't need to "inspect shit" because you were the one who put that shit there. You already know what it is. You arranged it. It was not automatically sorted into some huge list for you.

Do you have a background in programming, by any chance? Linked list vs hash map, which is better and why?

 

[Excidium]

You do need to inspect shit so you can see what it does unless you memorize everything or it's some really simplistic game.

Do you have a background in programming, by any chance? Linked list vs hash map, which is better and why?

Dude what games have you been playing that this analogy would be relevant

 

[Infinitron]

You do need to inspect shit so you can see what it does unless you memorize everything or it's some really simplistic game.

*shrug* I have no problem remembering what I'm carrying. It's either stuff I care about enough to keep around permanently, or "loot to be sold".

That's the problem with lists. They might offer you a variety of sorting options, but it'll never be as handy or intuitive as your own custom-made sort. How do you "sort" between "stuff I want" and "stuff I don't want" with 100% accuracy? Only a human mind can do that.

And yeah, you can create some kind of unprecedented system that lets you create sublists, as Lancehead suggested, but I'd rather discuss list-based inventories as they exist in real life.

Also, you mention the fact that a list can show you all the details of all your items at once as an advantage. I call that information overload. I don't want or need to scan through a database table with a bunch of columns every time I want to mess around in my inventory.

 

[Excidium]

And yeah, you can create some kind of unprecedented system that lets you create sublists, as Lancehead suggested, but I'd rather discuss list-based inventories as they exist in real life.

In that case let's just stop here. Like I said many times before, of course lists suck when you are going to draw examples from old games with limited graphics and modern games where every interface element needs to be HUGE and made to navigate with a controller.

 

[Infinitron]

And yeah, you can create some kind of unprecedented system that lets you create sublists, as Lancehead suggested, but I'd rather discuss list-based inventories as they exist in real life.

In that case let's just stop here. Like I said many times before, of course lists suck when you are going to draw examples from old games with limited graphics and modern games where every interface element needs to be HUGE.

Right, so let's make everything small, right?

Best inventory ever! I can see all the infoes at once!

What do you mean, it's too annoying to read through? You can sort it alphabetically, by cost, or by weight! THAT FIXES EVERYTHING!

 

[Excidium]

Which is better and why? Discuss!!

What do you mean, it's too annoying to read through? You can sort it alphabetically, by cost, or by weight! THAT FIXES EVERYTHING!

I don't find it annoying. Little undiscernible pictures are the real nuisance to me.

 

[Infinitron]

Which is better and why? Discuss!!

This isn't a proper grid inventory, it's a "list of icons". Notice how it's automatically sorted - weapons first, then shields, then armor, then rings and amulets. Worst of both worlds.

 

[Excidium]

Ok then, have this:

I used risen inventory because it would at least help the case of icons a bit.