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Editorial RPG Codex Retrospective: Roguey dismantles white privilege in Tim Cain's Temple of Elemental Evil

Applypoison

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Serpent in the Staglands Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Tried ToEE. Really wanted to enjoy it, the combat system 'felt' just right i.e. the presentation was slick once you got used to the radial menu (although, that's a UI choice I never really understood).

But when it came down to it, it simply just wasn't incloosive enough.
 

Lonely Vazdru

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The Eyes of the Deep below him were somewhat disappointing because all they did was attack my characters in melee instead of casting spells they should have had (Bug? Oversight? I dunno).
Weird. Those are the beholders-like water dwelling monsters right ? When I played it they "Cone of colded" my party pretty badly.

While I agree on some of the article's points, like the atrocious freezes in the nodes or the (for the most part) boring encounter design, I strongly disagree on some others. Some fights that are presented as trivial, when I hardly think they are (like the fire salamanders in the fire temple) or the fact that turn-based isn't superior to RTwP when implementing D&D, especially 3.5, because of course it is.

Also, I love casting "Read magic". :oops:
 
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Grunker

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I don't think we can be considered a prestigious magazine anymore.

I don't think we ever could. I think anyone who ever took that predicate (or the :monocle:-joke) seriously is pretty ridiculous.

By the way, Infinitron, I am disappoint that you didn't include VoD's find:

Roguey said:
The prerequisite spells for those items aren't documented, so you should look those up too.
iirc the prereqs are clearly visible

CWItemL.jpg

What's wrong, Roguey? Crushing the patriarchy's got you blind with rage?

I would like to sign up as a dedicated editor for RPG Codex

Man, am I glad to see that. Such people are hard to get when the pay is 0 dorrahs. Sign up with DarkUnderlord. I'm sure the first review to give a total grammatical overhaul will come your way soon.
 
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Bitcher1

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:hmmm:

And so Infinitron's nefarious plot to give Roguey far more exposure and attention than it deserves continues unabated. Shall we ever learn the true agenda of the Zionist spambot/data harvesting software made sentient? Tune in tomorrow to find out!
 

Roguey

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Yeah I clarified the crafting criticism. I think it's pretty lousy that you have to buy those feats early and reload just to check out which spells you'll be needing later on when it's crafting time.

Massive replies incoming.

Yet it isn't a stand-alone text; it's only understandable if the person played ToEE already. And recently, unless it has a really good memory.

If you haven't played ToEE, you can read everything up to when I start talking about the moathouse and then skip to the conclusion.

For some very subjective meaning of "worse". Bloodlines, good art direction, atmosphere, good in respect of character concepts.

Bloodlines was worse when it came to racism and sexism.

Inept or deadline-related? Whether Troika's ambition (to faithfully represent an RPG system where potion identification is a valid action) excuses not worth to enter the temple is a point to discuss.

I can tell you from ~30 seconds of playtesting that a massive amount of DR that can't be bypassed on any kind of enemy is awful.

Hardly worth an absolute statement, p. much a bare assertion.
Josh Sawyer said:
Does having less content in a game usually cut down on the number of bugs? Fallout 1 was really short and had a longer dev time than NV, but was still very buggy.

Yes, it absolutely does.

Fallout 1 had a relatively small development team and was made almost 15 years ago.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this is shameful and should have never been posted.

But whatever, have your cheap-ass "lulz" and trolling.

https://twitter.com/RPGEndBoss/status/486929845637890049 https://twitter.com/RPGEndBoss/status/486930680090066945


Nice eye-plank.

:hmmm: Tell me more.
Fucking editing of articles: how does it work? Who gives a fuck, right? Much more important to preface the tl,dr front-page troll post with a omgsofunny! photoshop than actually doing editing. Prestigious Game Magazine Professional Journalism at its finest.

Unlike the editing staff, English is my first language, so they seem to be fine with my self-editing. Unfortunately, self-editing results in things being missed even after multiple read-throughs. Sorry.

Sure. The statement about ethnocentric racism is a crock of shit because in the Greyhawk world, a person of asian appearance would be exotic, particularly to this location.

An Asian person would be exotic to a half-orc, an elf, or more importantly, the Asian-looking monk portraits? Yeah, no.

The "haha I'm better than you at games" attitude is pretty lols, since I'll bet that anything that Roguey finds 'hard' in any game he will just palm off as "shit design"/not enjoyable gameplay.

The balor was hard, and I didn't call it shit/unenjoyable. It was a somewhat lazy kind of difficulty and I wouldn't enjoy that kind of fight all the time, considering anyone can design a creature that's nigh-unhittable and deals a lot of damage when its attacks hit your character. The dispells were great, didn't care too much for its hard-counter-requiring death and fear spells though.

"Hard" is generally irrelevant in a single-player game if you've played it before, or read walkthroughs. Then there's always J.E. Sawyer's own words about D&D games not being challenging if you have a thorough understanding of the rules already, which I'm sure a lot of codexers don't :smug:.
I use the word demanding instead of hard. Even if one is replaying a game, you can get a feel for which content demands more of your attention or thought than others. "ToEE stops being a demanding game once you enter the temple" isn't a controversial statement. Even Lesi, who hated turn-based combat and primarily plays RPGs for the story, said it.

The link to the lost caverns comic isn't working, Roguey
Huh, it was working last week, why would they get rid of it????

http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1369/24/1369245885332.jpg dunno how long that will last considering it's a 4chan archive and it's an 8 mb image.

Some fights that are presented as trivial, when I hardly think they are (like the fire salamanders in the fire temple)
I liked that fight though? If I don't like something I'm pretty explicit about it or refuse to include it.

or the fact that turn-based isn't superior to RTwP when implementing D&D, especially 3.5, because of course it is.
Execution is what matters. As Josh says, ToEE may have more options but it's just as easy as any IE game and doesn't have quality content matching the best of BG2 and IWD2.

Also, I love casting "Read magic". :oops:
It's fine for scrolls, but there are dozens/possibly close to a hundred or more potions in the world, and unidentified potions don't stack, so your options are to identify or sell them one by one or ignore them outright. Tedium doesn't make a game better.
 

Mystary!

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Half the "review" is just listing encounters and bitching about how easy, or annoying, they are.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Half the "review" is just listing encounters and bitching about how easy, or annoying, they are.

Notice that the title and intro text of the piece doesn't actually include the word "review" anywhere
 

Roguey

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Someone did put [Review by Roguey] at the top though. :P Almost, but not quite...
 

Lonely Vazdru

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ToEE may have more options but it's just as easy as any IE game
It's not only about difficulty, having more choice is part of the enjoyment too, at least for me. So that is for "opinion", now for facts, turn-based is what D&D combat is all about, so people who love playing D&D usually love playing it like that. RTwP is a rape of the system, whether you find it tasteful or not, and a slap in the face of D&D enthusiasts that D&D CRPGs are supposed to please. Well, at least it's not as bad as true real time like in some earlier D&D games.

unidentified potions don't stack
Yeah, granted, that one hurts. It's a bit too hardcore, even for me.
 

Roguey

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It's not only about difficulty, having more choice is part of the enjoyment too, at least for me. So that is for "opinion", now for facts, turn-based is what D&D combat is all about, so people who love playing D&D usually love playing it like that. RTwP is a rape of the system, whether you find it tasteful or not, and a slap in the face of D&D enthusiasts that D&D CRPGs are supposed to please. Well, at least it's not as bad as true real time like in some earlier D&D games.

AD&D was phase-based so it's not that much of an extreme change as far as BG 1/2, IWD, and PS:T go.
 

Lonely Vazdru

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AD&D was phase-based so it's not that much of an extreme change as far as BG 1/2, IWD, and PS:T go.

3.5 sure wasn't and as for older rulesets, I certainly didn't play phased based in my PnP sessions. It's not like the DM would press some "Freeze" button and then every player would say what he intented to do and the DM would use some "Release" button and watch what happened. That's "Car wars" not D&D. The point of turn-based is that you can act on your turn depending on the previous player's success or failure, RTwP defeats that and certainly doesn't reflect playing D&D.
 
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Harold

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I would like to sign up as a dedicated editor for RPG Codex

Man, am I glad to see that. Such people are hard to get when the pay is 0 dorrahs. Sign up with DarkUnderlord. I'm sure the first review to give a total grammatical overhaul will come your way soon.

Sure thing, bro. Except I would've edited this down to three paragraphs max, because all the retarded 'I did this, then I fought those dudes, then I roflstomped that encounter which these noobs totally failed at!' does not make it a review. But you know that already, don't you? You just enjoy the drama, so go 'fuck it, put it up, make a lulzy photoshop as a header too, sure to piss off some faggots, mission accomplished Codex staff!'.

How about I write a review of a storyfag game, say PST, two-thirds of which will consist of something like this:

I talked to a skull, he was funny but I didn't like the blatant sexism against zombie chicks.
Then I talked to a ghost lady, I thought her dialogue was lame but I liked the voice actress.
[...]
After that I totally beat the Ravel dialogue encounter on my first try, I had already maxed my INT and WIS by then, not like this fucking loser on the forum. Overall, the dialogue was too long, the metaphors were high-school level, and MCA is clearly prejudiced against old ladies.
etc.
I promise to totally add some jokes at Colin McComb's expense, link to a few dev twitter accounts and conclude that David Cage's 'Beyond:Two Souls' does a much better job of exploring the same themes than MCA's PST - all to make it look more reviewy-like, y'know?

Is that front-page worthy? If so, let me know so I can get started on it immediately.
 

Grunker

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How about I write a review

Notice that the title and intro text of the piece doesn't actually include the word "review" anywhere

Harold said:
Is that front-page worthy? If so, let me know so I can get started on it immediately.

Yours doesn't seem close to anything that can spawn this kind of discussion, but write it up and send it, we'll see.
 

Harold

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Oh, ok, my bad. I'll call my review a 'retrospective' as well. Will that get me coverage? I want to troll on the front page too!
 
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This joke's getting old now. I'm sure you'll get some of the reactions you want, though probably not as many as the Icewind Dale effort. Congratulations to all involved.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
What bothers me is that this gets front-page, while posts much more usefull and informative are lost forever in the forums... like this article Alex did on GNS years ago: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-simulationism-model-and-computer-rpgs.71428/

Kotaku has that "stuff from the forums" series, we could use something similar. Would spawn much better articles.

Well, that's from April 2012. If I was staff then, maybe I would have contacted Alex to make something official of it.

I've been known to occasionally try to recruit forum members into writing about games/topics they seem to be particularly interested in (example 1, example 2) but it doesn't always succeed as you can see.
 

Twiglard

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Yeah I clarified the crafting criticism. I think it's pretty lousy that you have to buy those feats early and reload just to check out which spells you'll be needing later on when it's crafting time.
For some very subjective meaning of "worse". Bloodlines, good art direction, atmosphere, good in respect of character concepts.

Bloodlines was worse when it came to racism and sexism.

Having characters' POVs so ambivalent as to preclude the only correct thinking; that less cock, male, white, successful, effective, efficient, having initiative, et al. is more "good"! What were they thinking.

That kinda shit was known in Potato during USSR times as "socrealism". Different priorities given as to what was deemed correct and what deviationist, but that's a digression.

Perhaps all of it is ultimately worthy, as to, say, prevent well-meaning females experiencing puberty from making decisions as harmful in life as:

- wearing makeup appealing to men
- have interactions with men as if they were equals
- fornicate with other men eventually
- not get involved with social justice
- not become a professional activist as life-long career, as if world needed female human animals for material work, or services!
- get married to a male
- start a downward spiral of hopeless, humiliating, devastating deviationist thinking resulting in behavior not in line with latest oppressed-peoples calculus, canon and other dogma.

Codex apparently loves that particular person for not denying being fermale. Whether his routine's for fun, self-delusion of grandiose proportion, or otherwise... Remains to be seen.
 

NotAGolfer

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How about I write a review

Notice that the title and intro text of the piece doesn't actually include the word "review" anywhere

Harold said:
Is that front-page worthy? If so, let me know so I can get started on it immediately.

Yours doesn't seem close to anything that can spawn this kind of discussion, but write it up and send it, we'll see.
close to anything that can spawn this kind of discussion
this kind of discussion
discussion
Wait what?
..wait+what+_4419e17c4d551241612e55ee9af28dd9.gif


Take this immature rant off the front page, this is embarrassing.
Nobody has to know how :retarded: this place is before signing up, dammit! :rpgcodex:
 

FeelTheRads

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Why is it here and not on RPS or tumblr?
Because Infinitron thinks Roguey isHILARIOUS while also agreeing that all RPGs should be single player MMOs.

Take this immature rant off the front page, this is embarrassing.

Everybody saying the post sucks is discussion, apparently, so I say it should be left there.
 

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