Review RPG Codex Review: Dungeon Rats

[Iluvcheezcake]

Bought the game, played it both solo & cha 10 group. Knew from the start what to expect, and was even pleasantly suprised. Really liked it.
As someone mentioned before, shame there wasnt more time to flesh out the mine and the recruitable npcs.

This false advertising shit is blown way out of proportion.

 

[Morkar Left]

OMG No Man Sky all over again!!!!!!!

Dungeon Crawler is just misleading. It's a mini squad tactics game with rpg elements similar or directly comparable to Blackguards 1.

 

[Invictus]

Got this for ny nephew alongside AoD during the GOG Winter sale... should I give him first DR to help him learn the combat system or just let him go for AoD?

 

[Whisper]

OMG No Man Sky all over again!!!!!!!

Dungeon Crawler is just misleading. It's a mini squad tactics game with rpg elements similar or directly comparable to Blackguards 1.

Blackguards 1 was great game despite being German rpg (this are weird).

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Got this for ny nephew alongside AoD during the GOG Winter sale... should I give him first DR to help him learn the combat system or just let him go for AoD?

Give him AoD first, the changes made in DR's combat are not in AoD.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The exact quote:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ou-think-about-aod.73356/page-12#post-2150188

I've always liked roguelikes. They are very different from most RPGs because dying is easy and part of the game. If you play a roguelike once or twice, you won't get far. That's a fact. You're expected to play one many times, slowly learning what kills you and what doesn't. AoD's overall design is very similar. That's why we have teleporting and no filler. You create a character, distribute skill points as you get them, run him/her through the game, see what happens. Sure, the first time you have no idea what to expect (much like in roguelikes), so you'll probably die fast. Fortunately, replaying won't take much time and you won't be forced to do fedex quests and run all over the town. Dialogue check 'synergies' in R2 make failing due to missing a couple of points all but impossible.

Yes, and it's still full of crap.

Also, thanks for posting it to prove that you're indeed saying AoD plays like a roguelike... because you die often. Much like dungeon crawler is anything with dungeons, amirite?

 

[Soph]

I would've thought that Dungeon Rats would be the perfect game for Darth Roxor, since he doesn't enjoy games that require the player to walk around or do things.

In any case, it's clear that this game is a "combat crawler" and not a dungeon crawler, because there aren't any proper dungeons. I now have a handy post to refer back to whenever the topic of dungeons arises:

A proper (game) dungeon, in my opinion, has three qualities:

It must have a complex and challenging layout. I refer to this as "environmental challenge." Multiple floors/levels interconnected at various points, portions of some floors accessible only from certain sections of another floor (and optionally, individual levels/floors sharing various elevations as opposed to being completely flat), dead ends, branching forks and intersections, switchbacks, one-way exits, single exits that can lead to multiple destinations, pitfalls and trap doors, portcullises or portholes allowing vision but not immediate passage, secret doors, ladders, teleporters, et cetera.

It must also have rewarding and challenging interaction. I refer to this as "not being designed for retards because they 'just want to relax after work'." Cryptic messages and clues, various kinds of environmental or self-contained puzzles, needful key items to uncover, levers to pull, hidden buttons to push, pressure plates, traps to avoid (and maybe disarm), hard-to-spot reward items or equipment, and observational mysteries (i.e., observe some creature or character's behavior to figure something out; just for example, following a mouse back to a crack in the wall).

Finally, interesting monsters or creatures with varied traits, behaviors, dialogue if applicable, and needful loot implemented in the dungeon via thoughtful encounter design can't hurt.

Zelda is a great dungeon crawler series.

 

[MF]

I'll chip in my two cents here :

When I said I usually didn't like dungeon crawlers, but I liked Dungeon Rats, I was fully aware of what a dungeon crawler usually is.

In P&P gaming, a dungeon crawl is a campaign that leaves out epic scope and narration to focus on hack & slash gameplay and simplicity by sticking mostly to the combat rules and dicerolls. People who are not into roleplaying, but way into board games usually like this style of play more because they don't have to inhabit a character as much. It's also easier for a Dungeon Master to organize. Translated to CRPG's, that has sadly mostly meant a whole lot of trash combat. Dungeon Rats has (almost) no trash combat, but in my view, it's still very much a dungeon crawler. There is no labyrinth to speak of, but most early dungeon crawl campaigns weren't very maze-like to begin with. In that sense, it's a lot like Heroquest, which is an early attempt by the wargamers at Games Workshop to streamline D&D combat and the only D&D-lite that I've been able to get my boardgame group into.

It is quite the oppoiste of a roguelike with its complete lack of randomness in environment and encounter design, though. That's a bad comparison by VD, even though he's right about the 'die, try again' mechanism being similar if we're talking about AoD.

Food for thought: DR is what Fallout Tactics should have been like.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It is quite the oppoiste of a roguelike with its complete lack of randomness in environment and encounter design, though. That's a bad comparison by VD, even though he's right about the 'die, try again' mechanism being similar if we're talking about AoD.

Yes, I was talking about AoD there (and for the record I've never said it plays like a roguelike). Sure, randomness plays a role there but the central design element that makes roguelikes different from any other RPG is that dying is very easy (whereas in many RPGs is practically impossible) and you need to know what you're doing or you'll be dead in no time. Roguelikes punish cluelessness like there's no tomorrow and reward experience. A new player has zero chance to beat a good roguelike on his first attempt simply because he doesn't know how things work yet. Etc.

 

[FUDU]

More catastrophic reading comprehension failures on the Codex.

News at 11:00.

 

[MF]

Yes, I was talking about AoD there (and for the record I've never said it plays like a roguelike). Sure, randomness plays a role there but the central design element that makes roguelikes different from any other RPG is that dying is very easy (whereas in many RPGs is practically impossible) and you need to know what you're doing or you'll be dead in no time. Roguelikes punish cluelessness like there's no tomorrow and reward experience. A new player has zero chance to beat a good roguelike on his first attempt simply because he doesn't know how things work yet. Etc.

Rogue's primary design focus was procedurally generated content. Permadeath was a way of ensuring replay so that this programming exercise actually had a point. In terms of gameplay dying and retrying may have a more prevalent impact than the randomness and one could argue that they go hand in hand.

I completely agree that the way you punish cluelessness is similar and I applaud you for it, but it's still a bad comparison, precisely because AoD has a compelling narrative that is partially reiterated each try unless you go by a completely different branch, which is not what a player would do in a roguelike. Playing AoD like you would a roguelike would be very tedious, at least for me. Which is why I've had a blast finishing it five times but never tried Ironman.

I realize you never said it plays like one, so I won't argue the point further.

Anyway, this thread is about Dungeon Rats. Great game, and as far as I'm concerned it's a dungeon crawler of the hack & slash variety. Roxor is just arguing semantics for the sake of it.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I completely agree that the way you punish cluelessness is similar and I applaud you for it, but it's still a bad comparison, precisely because AoD has a compelling narrative that is partially reiterated each try unless you go by a completely different branch, which is not what a player would do in a roguelike. Playing AoD like you would a roguelike would be very tedious, at least for me. Which is why I've had a blast finishing it five times but never tried Ironman.

I think VD's point is that comparing AoD to roguelikes is as valid as comparing it to classic crpg's because it's meant as a uniting of both designs.

Classic crpg's offered plenty of choices to the player but without the realistic possibility of failure resulting from the wrong decision, thus they offered choices without consequences.

Roguelikes offered few choices how to handle a situation beyond violence, but the wrong decision was punished, thus they offered consequences without choices.

 

[Kev Inkline]

The main reason for that is not the lack of imagination but the lack of time as these changes aren't easy to implement and more interesting attacks would require unique animations we definitely didn't have time for.

So if you had unlimited funds and time what would you add/change to make them more interesting and unique?

The main reason for that is not the lack of imagination but the lack of time as these changes aren't easy to implement and more interesting attacks would require unique animations we definitely didn't have time for.

So if you had unlimited funds and time what would you add/change to make them more interesting and unique?

Romances, duh.

 

[Zanzoken]

Roxana is quite bangable actually

 

[Eyestabber]

Roxana is quite bangable actually

And I bet she also fucks like crazy. I mean...

Notice all the scars? It's pretty clear that she is into hardcore BDSM.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

lol is that a nude patch

those boobs look like something from a 90s nude mod for tomb raider

 

[FeelTheRads]

and for the record I've never said it plays like a roguelike

If you play a roguelike once or twice, you won't get far. That's a fact. You're expected to play one many times, slowly learning what kills you and what doesn't. AoD's overall design is very similar.

Sounds like you said that, to me. Or are we going to flip-flop over the definition of "very similar"?

Also:

That's why we have teleporting and no filler.

Give me a fucking break. You have teleporting because you didn't have the resources to fill the game world with actual stuff.
Yes, yes, I know, according to you all RPGs that don't teleport you from quest to quest are wasting your time because everything else is filler (please find that quote of yours regarding this, too), but we already settled that the way you classify games is a bit outlandish.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

lol is that a nude patch

Nah, that shit's default.

 

[Cadmus]

I didn't know FeelTheRads was completely retarded O.o

 

[FUDU]

I didn't know FeelTheRads was completely retarded O.o

Yes, yes he is.

Fortunately, the radiation has made him sterile.