Review RPG Codex Review: Monte Cook's Numenera

[tuluse]

I disagree. It all depends on how your system is designed. You'd want to increase sword instead of might if you're a swordmaster because you'll get more out of that XP when fighting with swords. Or you might want neither and use the exp to get a perk that lets you wield without penalty an exotic type of sword.


Au contraire. It lets you custom-tailor your character, choosing when and how to improve certain aspects instead of getting a feat every third level or an attribute increase every 5 levels or something like that where every class has the same development model.


I just find that boring. It might make sense in character creation, if you want to enforce certain themes or archetypes, but I like to have control over how I develop my character. What if I don't want to learn any new spells? I'd rather have more skills. I might be a wizard who focus on alchemy and only cares for a very specific set of spells.

You make a compelling argument, I'll have to ponder this.

 

[Grunker]

I disagree. It all depends on how your system is designed. You'd want to increase sword instead of might if you're a swordmaster because you'll get more out of that XP when fighting with swords. Or you might want neither and use the exp to get a perk that lets you wield without penalty an exotic type of sword.


Au contraire. It lets you custom-tailor your character, choosing when and how to improve certain aspects instead of getting a feat every third level or an attribute increase every 5 levels or something like that where every class has the same development model.


I just find that boring. It might make sense in character creation, if you want to enforce certain themes or archetypes, but I like to have control over how I develop my character. What if I don't want to learn any new spells? I'd rather have more skills. I might be a wizard who focus on alchemy and only cares for a very specific set of spells.

You make a compelling argument, I'll have to ponder this.

plus, GURPS use one pool for all improvement as well, and you still want to be friends with me, right tuluse?

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

tuluse
I Love unified resource for stat/skill/talent/perk advancement. Mainly because VtM is the only PnP I have ever played. The fleshing of a character concept becomes a lot easier due to its flexibility. You aren't constrained by where you want to spend exp. So two fighters with a similar amount of exp can be radically different in thier stat/skill makeup for example. You don't have to increase the a stat just cause you got a few stat points on a level up. Allows specialised stuff like a loremaster who is shit at evrything else except lore. This is a good thing in PnP

In cRPGs, this allows to mondblut more efficiently. Play Blackguards and see.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

You know, the game seems interesting. I wonder how it plays.
Definitely different from the D20 stuff I'm used to.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

It sounds like a storyfag PnP but needs more good fluff.

 

[MicoSelva]

After reading the article I can see that they made the correct decision for Numenera to be the basis of the new Torment. Setting-wise, I mean. The 9th World is weird in the best way possible to make a fun storyfag CRPG based on exploration and discovery.

The rules however are completely unsuitable for a CRPG and will need to be redone for TToN, especially combat and progression (XP). But they seem to know that already. Progression will probably be tied to the eponymous Tides (pun intended) and as for combat... I am pretty confident about that aspect after playing Wasteland 2 beta. Well, at least it will be turn based.

 

[crawlkill]

It seems like you're maximizing *something* but I'm not sure what that is. Can't be enjoyment, that's for sure.

It can be interesting, in its way. But the question of "why don't I just set all my stats to 10 and play through that way" does tend to raise its head, yeah. The automatic answer is that something you have to puzzle out and plan is more satisfying, but I'm not sure that's really the case here, at least for me.

 

[hiver]

a PC may rest up to four times in a single day, recovering attribute points. This means that damage is usually pretty short lasting in Numenera. A few days will see most PCs brought back to full health even after a bloody battle. Some optional rules aim to fix this by providing the GM with rules for lasting and even permanent injuries, though it is still up to the GM how these are administered. Damage is also another aspect where NPCs are very different from PCs, as they have hit points instead of attribute pools. This means that NPCs don't become worse off by being hit in combat like PCs do.

this is complete crap. hope they change this radically in the game.

fuck,... ive been arguing directly against this with several suggestions and posts on user voice. thinking at worst, healing is similar to the usual fare.

Besides effort, die rolls can be modified by two other aspects: assets and skills. Assets are the situational aspect of the task. A first aid kit, a book relating to the task being done, a friend who is helping you sneak by distracting a guard, all these are assets, and all of them can reduce difficulty. Skills on the other hand, are inherent. Each PC will have a range of different skills he is competent in. Skills come in two levels: trained and specialized, and reduce difficulty by 1 and 2 respectively. One interesting aspect of skills is that the game doesn't really have a list of them. Instead, it is up to the player to create what skills his character knows, and the GM to decide if they are too generic.

Wait what? Skills? how many? what kinds? just invent them? Any limits, dependencies?



- im still reading but, pretty damn good review. just what i waited for.

 

[Alex]

a PC may rest up to four times in a single day, recovering attribute points. This means that damage is usually pretty short lasting in Numenera. A few days will see most PCs brought back to full health even after a bloody battle. Some optional rules aim to fix this by providing the GM with rules for lasting and even permanent injuries, though it is still up to the GM how these are administered. Damage is also another aspect where NPCs are very different from PCs, as they have hit points instead of attribute pools. This means that NPCs don't become worse off by being hit in combat like PCs do.

this is complete crap. hope they change this radically in the game.

fuck,... ive been arguing directly against this with several suggestions and posts on user voice. thinking at worst, healing is similar to the usual fare.

To be fair, resting during the day takes progressively more time. The first rest is quick enough it can be done in combat, taking just an action. The fourth on the other hand takes 10 hours. Furthermore, you don't recover completely from just one rest. Instead, you get back 1d6+tier dividing those between the 3 pools as you wish.

Besides effort, die rolls can be modified by two other aspects: assets and skills. Assets are the situational aspect of the task. A first aid kit, a book relating to the task being done, a friend who is helping you sneak by distracting a guard, all these are assets, and all of them can reduce difficulty. Skills on the other hand, are inherent. Each PC will have a range of different skills he is competent in. Skills come in two levels: trained and specialized, and reduce difficulty by 1 and 2 respectively. One interesting aspect of skills is that the game doesn't really have a list of them. Instead, it is up to the player to create what skills his character knows, and the GM to decide if they are too generic.

Wait what? Skills? how many? what kinds? just invent them? Any limits, dependencies?

You get 1 skill per tier, usually, though you can trade them for other benefits. You also start with a few, depending on your descriptor. When you gain a skill, you can choose whether to learn a new one or become specialized in an old one. Yeah, the characters invent their own skills, though the GM might veto a skill based on it being too broad or too narrow. It is up to the players and GM then to work out if a skill applies to a roll or not.

- im still reading but, pretty damn good review. just what i waited for.

Thanks, glad you like it!

 

[hiver]

yeah, its pretty detailed and covers all aspects enough so i have a sense of actually getting whats the setting really like, finally.

Obviously a lot of stuff to work on and change for the game. Combat the most - obviously, if we are to have any sort of tactical TB system...
The Numenera setting as it is actually seems to work directly against that.

Good to hear about the healing being a bit more diverse.
Obviously, even so it is way to gamey and made to largely remove worries about "healing" issues and items and all.
But that never works that well really.

I could see these rests as smaller... er, rests you take to first, like "catch your breath", "bandage a wound" or "take some healing medicine", or "take a long rest" after more serious damage received but... yeah, its... bleh - if thats all there is to it.


Skills will obviously be premade, for the game. One way or another.
I guess they could allow some customization for specific skills or skill tiers or branches. Like naming them and adjusting some of the ranges and effects of it. If they wanted to.
- but i would be fine with premeade ones to choose from, based on and dependent on attributes, descriptors and Foci.

 

[Alex]

Still about skills, one of the inherent abilities of all Jacks is that they get a "flex skill"l. Every day, they get to choose a skill they don't have and this ability emulates that skill during the day. I mention that because I wanted to explain that skills, at least in the base game, aren't really that important. Anyone can try any action in Numenera, at least by default. Having a skill only means you are better at it, not that you can do stuff other people can't.

 

[hiver]

yeah, yeah. It will be unusual to play with rules such as those.
Different skills wont be limited to characters but rather specific characters will be better at some specific skills, due to their descriptors and foci. i guess.

-


combat, equipment and weapons - worry me.
we complain about w2 combat while here there is:

Similarly, weapons too fall on one of the categories: light, medium or heavy. These cause respectively 2, 4 and 6 points of damage. On that note, damage in this game is always static, not based on dice rolls. Still, weapons have more variety than armors, some weapons have ranged capability (and some are rapid-fire capable). A few others have notes, though with no obvious mechanic effects, but it is relatively easy to add these on the fly. For instance, a hafted weapon with a hook can work as an asset for trying to knock down your enemy, or maybe disarm him. Still, the game could have made a better job to support that. The notes about how some of the more exotic weapons are used are nice, but are a bit short.

2 - 4 - 6? static?

some modal abilities are good but, thats it?
maaaaaan thats going to need a lot of work...

 

[crawlkill]

a PC may rest up to four times in a single day, recovering attribute points. This means that damage is usually pretty short lasting in Numenera. A few days will see most PCs brought back to full health even after a bloody battle. Some optional rules aim to fix this by providing the GM with rules for lasting and even permanent injuries, though it is still up to the GM how these are administered. Damage is also another aspect where NPCs are very different from PCs, as they have hit points instead of attribute pools. This means that NPCs don't become worse off by being hit in combat like PCs do.

this is complete crap. hope they change this radically in the game.

yeah, I hope combat takes weeks to recover from, like in Torment

oh fuck I'm addressing hiver directly

 

[Major_Blackhart]

You know, I'm wondering if this is more of a general template that allows for significant in game modifiers to be created via the artifacts in the world and character advancement with those artifacts.

 

[hiver]

I only meant the discrepancy of NPCs playing by different rules then the player. Or inversely.
Everyone should have same rules and mechanics for "damage". The rules that the player has, and damage being non linear, bit more diverse, seems like a good overall idea. More interesting then bloody old Hp.
Would be better if all creatures, or atleast humanoid ones, would use similar or same mechanics.

As for combat complexity, it looks like having some targeted attacks would be a far cry for the system. But we all saw how beneficial it would be for W2, for example.
Even with much less ranged combat in this case... Baring "magic" ... but, this being a high tech setting, im actually not certain how much ranged combat there could be in TToN.
It could be relatively common, plausibly.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

What I mean is will we see more in depth character advancement systems in later releases perhaps? The way Pathfinder does with their subscriptions.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Was curious about this: Does the book hold good descriptions of various locations and in-world lore? Like, will a city that's one of the more major civilized places be broken down with districts, rulers, structures and architecture, tech level, and even general atmosphere? Or is it be bland, one paragraph or two type descriptions?