Review RPG Codex Review: The Age of Decadence

[Lurker King]

Perhaps the only way to solve this problem requires using the AoD mindset in a more open way. If all quests were designed in a way that at least three or four builds could make it in a believable way, that is, without being too simplistic or easy, players would feel less restricted. In a sense, I think that the Thieves Guild playthrough already achieved this. You have so many options, especially in Teron, that the fact that you are fighter, alchemist or talker is irrelevant. You can solve your problems by brute force, intelligence or persuasion. If every quest were designed like this, you could have both the sophistication of AoD world that is unique, and the feeling of freedom that you have in most cRPGs.

I can't shake off this thought that the perfect AoD would be easier on the stat and skill checks. The Thieves Guild playthrough in Teron is the best in the game, but it is so easy! At least if we ignore the combat part. Maybe the rest of the game should be like that, which implies that the perfect game should be easy, at least for the most part. The only difference between good cRPGs and popamole garbage would be in how hard is the combat, at least if we consider the prevailing dialogue systems, and the quality of factors like writing, cRPG mechanics, etc.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell

Alchemy 2...? (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Wait why is that weird? Free healing salves and poisons...for a 5 SP investment that's really useful early on.

 

[Lexxx20]

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell

Alchemy 2...? (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Wait why is that weird? Free healing salves and poisons...for a 5 SP investment that's really useful early on.

That's weird 'cause it's too low for a combat character, not too high Strong poison is not a joke, as well as different bombs and +to hit and +ap potions. All my combat characters had at least 8 in alchemy, IIRC.

 

[makiavelli747]

alchemy 2 for combat character is not low, poison 3 for 5 SP is better than 9 for 150 SP
investing in alchemy is no better than in any other skill, actually(a lot of stuff you can by, just like with craft)

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

Yeah powerful alchemy is really good, but it's far from necessary for a pure combat character to be a destroyer of worlds. But even if I had no plans on becoming a master alchemist I would almost always still go to alchemy 2.

 

[Eyestabber]

Being able to brew a potion that gives you +50% damage at only -5% THC and another potion that gives you +25% THC and 6 addtional AP is "far from necessary for a pure combat character to be a destroyer of worlds"? Then you're not destroying worlds hard enough.

Combining both Crafting and Alchemy turns any character into a walking murder machine. I would dare say a hybrid with both skills might be better than a dedicated combat character with only crafting. And when you put both in a fully dedicated combat character, well... Maximus Murderus

 

[Darth Roxor]

Having both crafting and alchemy on a combatfag is completely unnecessary overkill.

 

[makiavelli747]

Being able to brew a potion that gives you +50% damage at only -5% THC and another potion that gives you +25% THC and 6 addtional AP is "far from necessary for a pure combat character to be a destroyer of worlds"?

you can get some of this potions w/o alchemy skill

and you can't have all 10s in 5 combat skills(crit/dodge/daggers/craft/alchemy), so you either a good fighter or you need some tricks to survive

 

[Eyestabber]

Having both crafting and alchemy on a combatfag is completely unnecessary overkill.

Try killing full strength Agatoth in a single turn without.

You underestimate the importance of killing Crassus/IG Legionnaires with a single blow.

you can get some of this potions w/o alchemy skill

You can get a weaker Eagle Eye from the Widowmaker. Berserk? Nope, gotta brew it. 7 dmg poison can be acquired from the scorpions in Dead River (useless against Agatoth, tho).

and you can't have all 10s in 5 combat skills(crit/dodge/daggers/craft/alchemy), so you either a good fighter or you need some tricks to survive

Not needed. But if you can choose 2 of them to max out, both crafting and alchemy will give you the biggest bang for your buck. Weapon, Defense and Crit, well I rarely level them above 8. I went dodge 10 on my Ironman game because survival is paramount when you're doing that sort of thing. It's not needed if you're reloading on terrible RNG. Also, if you use bolas against Agatoth, your weapon skill only really counts for the passive, since THC will max out anyway.

The synergy between crafting, alchemy and high strength is absolutely perfect. Crafting gives you high base damage, STR and alchemy adds 100% or more.

And all these advantages don't even mention that strong black powder bombs provide amazing AoE CC, Strong Liquid Fire deals reasonable damage AND helps you kite forever with no AoO, and 10 alchemy potent poison will drop anyone who is not carrying an antidote even if you deal 1 damage and never attack the guy again.

 

[makiavelli747]

Berserk? Nope, gotta brew it.

there is good berserk potion, though I can't remember where actually... I think in AG quests, when killing Serenas. I never use it anyway

Also, if you use bolas against Agatoth, your weapon skill only really counts for the passive, since THC will max out anyway.

nope, that's not true

Weapon, Defense and Crit, well I rarely level them above 8

you should try. I had 10 daggers & 5 crit after Terron, when playing 10-10-8-4-4-4 build, and I can't even imagine a single reload in any fight
the same with most of other weapons

But if you can choose 2 of them to max out, both crafting and alchemy will give you the biggest bang for your buck.

I disagree, almost always crit 8-10 is better in general than craft/alchemy for pure combat build, except throwing weapons

 

[Eyestabber]

there is good berserk potion, though I can't remember where actually... I think in AG quests, when killing Serenas.

Faction dependant. And it's not as good as +50/-5.

I never use it anyway

nope, that's not true

Bolas reduce defense by 100, which is more than enough to hit consistently with any weapon rating over 50. I have a video showing just that. I'm guessing math isn't your forte.

you should try. I had 10 daggers & 5 crit after Terron

And now it becomes clear you're just talking out of your ass. There aren't enough SPs in Teron to level your skills that high. Unless you dump your defense completely and ignore both crafting AND alchemy, which is an amazingly stupid choice.

I can't even imagine a single reload in any fight the same with most of other weapons

You should record a video. I'm legit curious

I disagree, almost always crit 8-10 is better in general than craft/alchemy for pure combat build, except throwing weapons

And here it becomes crystal clear you have no idea how AoD mechanics work. 8 crit with Boatmen training is more than enough to max out CS chance against p. much everything (Agatoth included). If you're not going for the Boatmen questline, CS simply takes too long to pay off anyway. The 2 extra points will only give you another 20 CS rating. I'm guessing you think it improves your critical damage or something awsum like that. It doesn't. Investing in CS is simply about bumping your CS rating and a minor chance to score a passive (bleeding on regular CS). Everything you invest that raises your CS rating above (95 + vCS) is completely and utterly wasted. Unless you REALLY care about consumables CS

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Never had to use High Alchemy man, by endgame we're ridiculous murderhobos as is.

 

[makiavelli747]

Bolas reduce defense by 100, which is more than enough to hit consistently with any weapon rating over 50.

you are wrong, with bolas to have thc about 90+ you need 85
but I just meant that high thc is not completely useless

I'm guessing math isn't your forte.

I guess I've just hurt the feelings of a geek

And it's not as good as +50/-5.

its 40/-10 yes, so you paying 150 SP just for 10/5%

And now it becomes clear you're just talking out of your ass. There aren't enough SPs in Teron to level your skills that high. Unless you dump your defense completely and ignore both crafting AND alchemy, which is an amazingly stupid choice.

that's what I was talking about, you don't need alchemy/crafting, investing in weapon/crit just as good

Everything you invest that raises your CS rating above (95 + vCS) is completely and utterly wasted.

cs above 95 needs to crit heavy armor opponents
for example arena champion have more than 60 vsCS, so you need about 140 CS to crit him every "normal attack"

If you're not going for the Boatmen questline, CS simply takes too long to pay off anyway. The 2 extra points will only give you another 20 CS rating

for example, my last walkthrough was for TG, with hammers 10 crit 7 (10-10-8-4-4-4) I'd crit-KO arena champion with every single hit(had more than 80% crit chance)
thc was low though

 

[Irenaeus II]

You didn't answer him about the video.

 

[makiavelli747]

I don't see a reason to record it. I've seen a lot of screenshots on ITS forum, when people didn't use defencive skills at all. Here, you just keep dodge at low level, because you can crit "arms" anyway. So nothing new here.

the only question here, is it really worth to invest in weapon further than 7th lvl in the beginning.. but anybody can just try it and see for themselves

 

[Eyestabber]

you just keep dodge at low level, because you can crit "arms" anyway

ITT we learn every fight in AoD is 1v1.

 

[makiavelli747]

well, with daggers and dex10 you can actually hit at least more than 1 opponent

in the beginning you start with 6 daggers, 4 crit, then raise dodge up to 2 or 3 and do some easy quests like killing 4 "behind the tavern" thugs, Cassius, Bandit Camp, infiltrate palace, then raise daggers to 7, dodge 3 and after 1st AG quest you'll have crit 5
after that there is nothing you can't kill with those stats in one try in Terron

oh, I've found one of my old screenshot, using same tactics but with range weapon

Spoiler

I knew you guys would bitch about some "new tactics", especially from newbie like me(have been playing AoD since 2013 so fuck you) but believe me, there is nothing worse than using same old route over and over again

 

[makiavelli747]

I did another walkthrough, can't make a video because my laptop is barely good for running AoD at lowest settings, so I just make screenshots(did waste a lot of time for this, so you better enjoy it)

Spoiler

 

[Irenaeus II]

Good stuff.

 

[Akratus]

the church of aod is ever vigilant, its armour is contempt, its shield is disgust and its sword is hatred

The jester of RPGCodex reviewers is ever droll and inflammatory, his motley cap is coloured red for gratituitous blood-letting, and yellow for shitting on things.

YES!

YOUR RPG IS VERY, VERY GOOD!

Spoiler

FOR ME TO POOP ON!!

 

[Eyestabber]

makiavelli747

I appreciate the effort you put in all this, but everything I said stands. This build sure is viable, but it is not optimal. Not by a long shot. Here is why:

- CS 5 in early Maadoran means you missed the opportunity to get 10 CS training from Neleos instead of a free CS point. That explains why you feel 10 CS is needed late game. Hint: don't do the spies quest before you reached CS 6. Sure, leveling CS all the way up to 6 hurts your early game, but you'll be thankful once you save 55 SPs later on. You also missed CS training from some dialogues.
- Perception 4 means you can forget about arterial strikes and Aimed: Torso. Daggers can't use Aimed: Head so every time you go for an opponent's head (via arterial strike) you're taking a huge CS penalty. Also goes to explain why you feel CS 10 is needed. It is not...
- Bumping your dagger skill from 7 to 9 and sword to 2 costs 50 SP. That's the exact amount of SPs you needed to bump your crafting skill to 6. With 6 crafting you could add Balanced (+9 THC) and Serrated edge (+10CS) to your dagger, which is roughly the THC and CS effect for 1 point in dagger and one point in critical strike. So out of your 50 SP investment, crafting would simply "refund" 40 (25 that you paid to go Dagger 8 -> 9 and 15 you would have to pay to go CS 5-> 6). Oukay, a little less than that because you're not getting the passive. When you add the fact that crafting 6 would also allow you to craft a Steel Manica with only 4 armor penalty AND the 3 extra base damage from sharpening AND would allow you to craft a Steel Praetor Helmet with no THC penalty, well...it becomes fairly obvious that you chose poorly... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Alternatively, those 50 SPs could've been used to go crafting 4 / alchemy 4, saving 10 SPs in the process. This option is cheaper and gives you access to better poison and berserker potion, which has great synergy with your high strength + high weapon skill.
- Either way, leaving dagger at 7 would've resulted in a much better character.

TL; DR: Weapon 7 is more than enough for early Maadoran. Raising it to 9 that early is costly and yields no tangible benefits.

And to put the nail in the coffin:

This is my latest assassin build: Kitemus the Impaler. As you can see, this was also taken right after arriving in Maadoran. And despite the fact that Kitemus is a Hybrid build, he has almost the same attack rating at Weapon 6 lol:), better defense (if you disregard the difference in armor penalty since he is using a Lorica Musculata), much higher DR, MUCH higher CS rating (like...68?! WTF!? You're like 2 skill levels behind and then some), better lockpick, higher sneak (sneak 3 pays for itself)...the list goes on.

By the way, I'm uploading a video showcasing this very build. Spear CS is an incredibly fun (and powerful) build that everyone should try. Shoving a spear through Agatoth's gut is incredibly rewarding :D

 

[TigerKnee]

What is this, pictures for ants?

 

[makiavelli747]

That explains why you feel 10 CS is needed late game.

first of all, I wrote CS 8-10, not 10, for a reason.
with +60 cs from passive its obvious you don't need 10

Perception 4 means you can forget about arterial strikes and Aimed: Torso.

I know but I still can crit a lot of people w/o helmets, and you can see on screenshots i'd 30% on full armored Aurelian guy so % is not actually that bad(don't forget I had daggers 10!)

Bumping your dagger skill from 7 to 9 and sword to 2 costs 50 SP. That's the exact amount of SPs you needed to bump your crafting skill to 6.

trust me, I did like 100 runs with daggers build, with craft, alchemy and everything in between. I know all this stuff.
a dagger you get from trader in the beginning of Maadoran is much better at this time, than any selfcrafted for this specific build(+26 thc). then, if you really want crafted things, you can get blue steel 4/4/4 lvl crafted dagger from Gaelius for 15 SP.

Either way, leaving dagger at 7 would've resulted in a much better character.

at least you are not saying i'm amazingly stupid anymore...

anyway, did some more... I did want to get to Gaelius first, just to show you the dagger and then get back to replay in other way, that's why i skipped arena and didn't make screenshots on the way, but then I was too lazy to come back.

this shows pretty much everything for this build anyway, possible final stats and all, so I think no reason for more

Spoiler

last AG fight is so easy you can just rush them like a maniac. Demon is very strong for this build, so you probably should get PA first, or use potions/reloads.

 

[makiavelli747]

he has almost the same attack rating at Weapon 6

he's paying for this by -20HP, that's huge actually. if you want high THC you can do a fighter with 10 perception
actually, dagger fighter 4-10-8-10-4-4 would be stronger than yours, but he would really benefit from high crafting instead of high weapon skill

much higher DR

8 vs 5 ?? well, I don't know... if I want high DR I would use 10AP crafted steel armor from last AG quest(-1 or -2 AP is no big deal, as long as you have 1st move anyway, I actually used successfully 9 AP armor with 12 AP build and always had 1st move), but I think its not a big deal.. kinda small tradeoff and just that

MUCH higher CS rating (like...68?! WTF!? You're like 2 skill levels behind and then some

68+50, but for aimed attacks I need even more THC

I think you don't understand why when I have perception 4 I should really go for high weapon skill.... its because aimed attacks goes with even more THC penalty, that's why you either put a passive ability to a good use or stats like str/per for high crit chance

 

[Lexxx20]

What an interesting discussion to follow! Thank you both guys for insightful comments and build ideas.