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Review RPG Codex Review: The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt

Carrion

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Nah, that's the one where you run around with Ciri thanking people.
In that scene the dialogue options are more like:

1. Either you'll leave on your own...
2. ...or I'll throw you out.

It's still more cryptic than it needs to be, but fortunately it's pretty rare that Geralt would do something completely unexpected in dialogue. In TW2 it almost seemed like they wanted to make the dialogue options misleading on purpose, like that was the main reason BioWare and others were using a similar system.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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Dialogue options are great. Like these from the convo with Keira Metz after Geralt realizes that Keira hired (and properly rewarded) him to lift the curse from the island (it's his job after all) but actually had an unknown, secret, additional interest in it (get the research papers in the mage tower). The horror. She wanted the papers ALL ALONG.

1) Can't let you do that. (normal talks proceed)
2) Thousand may die. It'll be on your head. (normal talks proceed)
3) Can't believe we've fucked. (leads to mortal combat)

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorn'd. It's appropriate that expressing regret over having had sexual intercourse with a female mage THAT IN TRUTH WANTED THE MAGE PAPERS THE ENTIRE TIME CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS BITCH will lead to combat.
 
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Ah, you are right, those were the choices. The problems is what Gerald actualy says is nothing like the second option. No mention of throwing out, no fistfights, just draw swords.
 

DeepOcean

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Witcher 3 has excellent dialog and some scenes are really well done but WTF, the pacing is fucking terrible. Witcher 2 had a much better pacing even if some parts of the story are kinda contrived like that part where you have to pass through the battlefield. Velen is so good because it is the only place where you have kinda of an antagonist, the ladies of the wood,the swamp was creepy as hell because of them but after that...

On Novigrad, Geralt get there and this crazy dude burning people show off and you think he will be important on the story that will happen there... maybe Triss is on real danger to be burned alive... but nope, okay, there are a bunch of underworld bosses, are those the antagonists? Nope, only one kinda is and by kinda, I mean, the dude doesn't know who the fuck you are until you meet him at the end of the questline.

I think the only real antagonist on Novigrad is Dandellion, because he is a complete dipshit moron and you spend hours chasing him to save his ass from his bullshit. Nothing of remote importance happens on the plot until you find Ciri and finding Ciri will compete for the "longest fetch quest on the video game history." Yes, there are a few sidequests that are truly important for what happen on the war but main quest wise, everything is a huge waste of time. Later when Geralt is with Yen on Skellige, the plot is still " Ehh, Ciri was here some months ago and she fled the placewhile being chased by the Wild Hunt." LOL, what?! Fucking crazy potato writer, I know of this already 30 hs ago, please move this shit foward!
 
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Excidium II

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I think the only real antagonist on Novigrad is Dandellion, because he is a complete dipshit moron and you spend hours chasing him to save his ass from his bullshit. Nothing of remote importance happens on the plot until you find Ciri and finding Ciri will compete for the "longest fetch quest on the video game history." Yes, there are a few sidequests that are truly important for what happen on the war but main quest wise, everything is a huge waste of time. Later when Geralt is with Yen on Skellige, the plot is still " Ehh, Ciri was here some months ago and she fled the placewhile being chased by the Wild Hunt." LOL, what?! Fucking crazy potato writer, I know of this already 30 hs ago, please move this shit foward!
I like how you are in a hurry after any clue that helps you find your daughter while she's being hunted by space elves from another dimension and Dandelion asks for help to renovate his bar. You can't even say no, only postpone it by not doing the quest.

I really hate OMG SO URGENT main quest in a game full of side activities
 

Carrion

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3) Can't believe we've fucked. (leads to mortal combat)
Only if you demand her to give up the notes afterwards, as you can still let her go for Radovid just fine. It only comes down to combat if Geralt follows up his insult with an ultimatum, spectacularly failing his diplomacy check in the process.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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Only if you demand her to give up the notes afterwards, as you can still let her go for Radovid just fine. It only comes down to combat if Geralt follows up his insult with an ultimatum, spectacularly failing his diplomacy check in the process.
I know this.

Demanding the notes is 1) the only option you get to choose from next (safe for existing dialogue with the cross) and 2) demanding the notes comes up elsewhere in the dialogue after not picking the "can't believe we've fucked" line and doesn't lead to combat there, so the "fucked" part seems to be the deciding factor. The point is the combat comes so fucking out of nowhere it truly boggles the mind.
 
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Just out of curiosity, did anyone try to send her to Kaer Morhen and then *don't* ask for the notes?
What's the outcome in that scenario? Does she still join the battle? Does she still depart with Lambert later?
 

Tacgnol

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Just out of curiosity, did anyone try to send her to Kaer Morhen and then *don't* ask for the notes?
What's the outcome in that scenario? Does she still join the battle? Does she still depart with Lambert later?

That's what I did.

She joins the battle and leaves with Lambert. She later cures the plague but is angered that her name is never spoken/recognised.
 

Carrion

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I know this.

Demanding the notes is 1) the only option you get to choose from next (safe for existing dialogue with the cross) and 2) demanding the notes comes up elsewhere in the dialogue after not picking the "can't believe we've fucked" line and doesn't lead to combat there, so the "fucked" part seems to be the deciding factor. The point is the combat comes so fucking out of nowhere it truly boggles the mind.
1) could only be an issue because it's counterintuitive to basic RPG logic, meaning that the yellow option is so much more inviting than the one that exits the dialogue that your brain only sees one real option instead of the two that are there. Always gotta exhaust every branch of every dialogue tree.
2) The deciding factor is whether you try to make a rational argument or simply call her a bitch.

I don't thnk the combat comes out of nowhere either. It's clear that she's absolutely desperate, aside from which she directly tells you to get out of her way which is a pretty clear cue that a fight is imminent unless you back down. Maybe that particular branch of dialogue could've gone on a bit longer, allowing you to redeem the situation in one way or another, but I really don't see it as too much of an issue to be honest.
 
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Just out of curiosity, did anyone try to send her to Kaer Morhen and then *don't* ask for the notes?
What's the outcome in that scenario? Does she still join the battle? Does she still depart with Lambert later?

That's what I did too. She then leaves with Lambert and cures the plague, becomes famous. Strangly enough, it was implied I still demanded the notes from here, even though I didn't. Why would I? Maybe my game bugged out (I did play this part before patching the game).
 
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The more I think about it, the clearer it becomes that the game's writing is not all that praiseworthy.

Velen really is brilliantly written, both the main storyline and the individual characters there. You have characters that feel believeable, have their likeable side as well as some major flaws, and the characterisation is miles beyond your usual "good guy with a dark past" or "asshole who means good" archetypes of morally grey characters you see in games. The storyline manages to remain consistent about its themes and has a very satisfying conclusion.

After that the quality of writing drops quite a bit. There are still some great characters in the game, the quality of dialogue remains high most of the time and some individual scenes are simply outstanding, but the storylines as a whole don't manage to explore any meaningful themes in depth, making them feel rather shallow and unsatisfying compared to Velen. Many of the characters also come off as fairly simplistic archetypes, something that CDPR have usually tried to avoid or at least twist in some way in the past. In Novigrad, especially, the game starts to drift more and more towards black and white characterisation, having clear good guys with practically no flaws at all and bad guys whose badness is constantly rubbed in your face. You get a completely paranoid religious fanatic who loves to burn people at the stake, a crime boss whose favorite pastime is nailing whores on his walls, a formerly harsh but adequate ruler that has now turned into a drooling lunatic that organizes mass murders for fun... These guys make Bernard Loredo seem like a stable and likeable if a bit misunderstood Sunday school kid in comparison. Skellige isn't much better, offering some slightly more complex political scenarios and raising some valid questions but ultimately not doing a whole lot with them, Yennefer being pretty much the only character that even warrants a discussion about whether her actions are justifiable or not.

The politics are just a huge missed opportunity. The story being more personal and less political this time is perfectly fine, but when your main conflict only really has two sides, it's just sad how simplified it all is considering how elaborate the politics of the previous game were. Everything basically comes down to one or two decisions the player gets to make, and the game makes even that a very straightforward affair, demonizing a certain individual throughout the whole game and not even allowing you to have any in-depth conversations about the pros and cons of each possible end result. Your choices regarding politics and the state of the world have little to no effect on the main quest or any other quest for that matter, being almost entirely on the background for the whole time.

The main story is functional during the first act, when it barely moves at all. When things finally start moving forward, the quality drops massively and it all becomes awfully shallow. Many aspects of it make little sense or go nowhere, and even though almost all of the individual quests are good and interesting, they don't form a coherent or satisfying whole. You go on a hunt for certain individuals that are supposedly important but don't really do anything. You embark on a search for an artifact the game just pulled out of its ass because it... does something. The only twist about the main quest is that there is no twist. The bad guys are essentially non-characters, just a bunch of evil-looking guys with deep voices that spout out a few generic taunts and that's pretty much it, which is a gigantic missed opportunity considering their backstory and the fact that they have a very good reason for doing what they do. I mean, they seem like perfect villains for the CDPR writing team, being considered evil but ultimately sharing motives that are very similar to those of humans', but instead their portrayal is as one-dimensional it gets (in before joke about all that travelling between dimensions). Oh, and of course there's a deus ex machina at the end as well, just because.

Maybe it's the lack of time, maybe the fact that the writing team was almost entirely different than it was in the previous game, but the main story is just so disappointing considering the quality of the first two games. I really wanted to love it, but it's just not very good. The general level of writing is still high, the side stories are mostly excellent, the game has a ton of great characters and most of the dialogue flows so naturally that it quite simply puts almost every other game to shame, but all things considered, I'm not sure if it's even the best-written Witcher game as a whole.

You hit on spot on the head. The Velen main campaign is so damn good and raises one's expectations so high that the mediocrity of the latter parts of the game are glaring for anyone who played at least 200 hours like myself for my first time around. And honestly because of the drawn out manner of the latter parts of the game I can't recommend this game more than I would TW2. At the end of it all I had such a betrayed feeling from all that time I spent with little to show for it. Sure the side quests are very creative, but that main campaign is complete rubbish. The game has no replay value beyond Velen. I know, I tried. I did a sign heavy character first time around and then on my second play through thought to do melee focus but after I was done with Velen (and got the other unfortunate ending for the Baron) I couldn't for the life of me trick myself into another 100 hours or so of playing.
 

Angthoron

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Anybody pls do invisible inc review..So far this game murders witcher 3 retarded hunt
Why don't you write a review for it, friend? Or are you ready to pay one of us for our valuable time playing and reviewing the game of a completely different genre, for a completely different subsection of the site?

Rpgcodex is a place where we dont write reviews but get butthurt and write about objective standards of RPGs.
So... In other words you think we should drop everything and do things because you asked us so nicely. Right, right, got you. Well, I'll be cancelling my free time on your account, sure thing.

You know, it sounds like it's a good thing that nobody on the staff has reviewed Invisible Inc, since clearly we don't even know basic shit like genre distinctions.
 

Eyestabber

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Dialogue options are great. Like these from the convo with Keira Metz after Geralt realizes that Keira hired (and properly rewarded) him to lift the curse from the island (it's his job after all) but actually had an unknown, secret, additional interest in it (get the research papers in the mage tower). The horror. She wanted the papers ALL ALONG.

1) Can't let you do that. (normal talks proceed)
2) Thousand may die. It'll be on your head. (normal talks proceed)
3) Can't believe we've fucked. (leads to mortal combat)

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorn'd. It's appropriate that expressing regret over having had sexual intercourse with a female mage THAT IN TRUTH WANTED THE MAGE PAPERS THE ENTIRE TIME CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS BITCH will lead to combat.

It's perfectly reasonable, when you come to think of it. Keira Metz is, IMO, probably the BEST depiction of a REAL woman in a game in like...EVER. Options 1 and 2 is Geralt essentially saying "You're a psycho, you know that?", which is something a woman might brush aside, if she likes you enough (and Keira clearly does). Option 3 is Geralt going "I regret boning you" which, ofc, he meants "I regret having sex with a psychopath" but she clearly heard "lol, fattie!". Ever called a woman "fat" right to her face? If she had magical powers (like Keira Metz does), mortal combat is 100% certain. Keira Metz is the exact opposite of "strong womyn".
 

DeepOcean

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That ending to the Keira Metz questline thing was kinda contrived, she could just teleport you to the nearby lake and leave to be burned at the stake like a pro. Only because someone offended me for some bullshit I did anyway, that is no reason for mortal combat, womyn or not. The feeling I had is that the writer kinda got on a corner trying to get a grimdark option and did, "fuck it, you can kill this beatch... there is your grimdark.".
 

Carrion

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That ending to the Keira Metz questline thing was kinda contrived, she could just teleport you to the nearby lake and leave to be burned at the stake like a pro.
As I see it, there are two ways to look at it. Mages are so OP in the universe that a direct confrontation with them should be pretty much suicide, really, like trying to deflect a nuclear warhead with your sword. In the books Geralt himself gets severely injured after one such attempt, against a mage that almost seemed to toy with him. On the other hand, as depicted in the books and to some extent also in the games, some spells require fairly complex acrobatics to pull off, so in that situation Geralt should be able to quite easily cut Keira in half before she could cast her spell. Not that Geralt would necessarily do that, of course, but it's not as simple as Keira doing "a Yennefer" and just teleporting him somewhere else without Geralt being able to do anything about it.

All of the Witcher games have eventually settled for a compromise, keeping mages really powerful most of the time but nerfing their combat abilities to relatively basic stuff like teleporting, protective spells, summons and fairly weak projectile attacks. I can't say it bothers me too much, as mage fights are quite rare and generally among the most interesting fights the games have to offer, but it of course leads to some inconsistencies here and there. I think a bigger issue with the ending of that particular quest wasn't the magic but the fact that Keira had no real need to trick Geralt, as she could've just gone to the island at some other point in the game without him ever finding out about it.

One thing that should be noted about Keira is that although she's fond of Geralt and the two have met earlier, they're not exactly friends. Her plan had obviously been brewing for quite some time, being the only way out of her current situation as she saw it, and after going through all that trouble and manipulating Geralt into helping her she'd stumble right before the finishing line, getting caught red-handed by Geralt who wanted to make all that work go to waste, extinguish that little glimmer of hope that was still left for her. While a fight to the death is maybe a bit of a stretch considering that Keira isn't nearly as ruthless as some of her colleagues, it isn't completely implausible seeing how she's a cornered rat at that point.
 

abnaxus

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That ending to the Keira Metz questline thing was kinda contrived, she could just teleport you to the nearby lake and leave to be burned at the stake like a pro. Only because someone offended me for some bullshit I did anyway, that is no reason for mortal combat, womyn or not. The feeling I had is that the writer kinda got on a corner trying to get a grimdark option and did, "fuck it, you can kill this beatch... there is your grimdark.".
She forgot to memorize her level 9 spells.
 

DeepOcean

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That ending to the Keira Metz questline thing was kinda contrived, she could just teleport you to the nearby lake and leave to be burned at the stake like a pro. Only because someone offended me for some bullshit I did anyway, that is no reason for mortal combat, womyn or not. The feeling I had is that the writer kinda got on a corner trying to get a grimdark option and did, "fuck it, you can kill this beatch... there is your grimdark.".
She forgot to memorize her level 9 spells.
Remember Triss casting holding person on Novigrad. Could it be that Geralt isn't classified as humanoid?
 

abnaxus

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I remember Triss fainted in TW2 after casting Protection from Normal Missiles. And Javed defeated her in TW1.
 
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Brayko

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Don't understand the Novigrad hate. An urban setting is a good change of pace from the wilderness romping across Velen. The quests I've done haven't been too offensive. I want to stick my tubesteak in Triss again. I'm going through this game very slow and it is quite the masterpiece. The character system isn't brilliant but it works for the fast paced animitron style swordplay. Amazing for what it is.
 
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Brayko

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One thing I don't like about it is the music. Not a bit of it is good to me, its rather mellow folky nonsense almost as bad as the bag pipes. Its average to poor. The worst thing about Novigrad is that every band you run into is playing that one damned song over and over.
 
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Telengard

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Anybody pls do invisible inc review..So far this game murders witcher 3 retarded hunt
Why don't you write a review for it, friend? Or are you ready to pay one of us for our valuable time playing and reviewing the game of a completely different genre, for a completely different subsection of the site?

Rpgcodex is a place where we dont write reviews but get butthurt and write about objective standards of RPGs.
So... In other words you think we should drop everything and do things because you asked us so nicely. Right, right, got you. Well, I'll be cancelling my free time on your account, sure thing.

You know, it sounds like it's a good thing that nobody on the staff has reviewed Invisible Inc, since clearly we don't even know basic shit like genre distinctions.



Wouldnt it be nice to write reviews on request rather than discussing about objective standards or are u saying you write reviews only to yourself ..so then whats the point of a review then??
Compromise. I'll write a review of it and utterly trash it. Problem solved.
 
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Brayko

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Finally read the review and give the review an 8.5/10. The combat is trashed a bit more than it deserves. I think its represented not physically realistic but realistic in tone. Combat is a ugly brutal and unfair and the Witcher is provided with sneaky tricks like signs and potions to ensure he comes out on top. Grimly slaughtering bandits and hearing them cry "mommy" when mortally maimed really perpetuates the war torn setting. I've yet to run into a dull encounter unless they're several levels below Geralt. There are plenty of ways to employ combat tactics and the enemy ai is nice. It is a bit fast yes but the "aging highly trained and experienced killer who will grimly murder you if you cross his path business as usual" impact is there. It may sound like I'm analyzing too much but compare it to Skyrims slower paced more lifeless sword hazing affair that certainly "looks" real enough but severely lacks any kind of backtone unless you make it up in your head (which is basically the essence of Bethesda games :/).

The rest of your review is good enough though a bit harsh on Gwent and its FF8 inspired character cards and a few other very minor things not worth mentioning. I still think the music sucks.
 

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