Rulesets in CRPGs

[sheek]

Why do so many CRPGs use crappy rulesets *? D&D/D20 is probably there in more than half, others have some dumbed down, streamlined home-made system (Morrowind) and GURPS/SPECIAL just isn't that special. That's not even mentioning all the games that have no real mechanics at all.

This in my opinion is the best RPG system ever made for a fantasy world. Why doesn't someone implement it into a game? The rules are all there all you need to do is code them.

* A very few games like Darklands are exceptions.

 

[MrBrown]

1) Because known systems (supposedly) sell better.
2) Easier to get a publisher for a known system.
3) Because they don't know better.


As for that system you linked to, I took a quick look through the introduction and character creation chapters, and couldn't find anything unique about it. Looked alot like someone's house-ruled AD&D.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I remember a time when nearly every CRPG that came out had a different character system. Back then, games also had manuals. It was pretty sweet. Then game companies went IPO, and that was the start of the GAYENNING.

 

[sheek]

As for that system you linked to, I took a quick look through the introduction and character creation chapters, and couldn't find anything unique about it. Looked alot like someone's house-ruled AD&D.

You have to get into it deeper. The beauty of it is how it deals with so much and complex/detailed situations while staying realistic and simple.

Part of the introduction explains why d20 sucks. The obsession with that kind of dice by roleplayers is strange.

 

[MrBrown]

As for that system you linked to, I took a quick look through the introduction and character creation chapters, and couldn't find anything unique about it. Looked alot like someone's house-ruled AD&D.

You have to get into it deeper. The beauty of it is how it deals with so much and complex/detailed situations while staying realistic and simple.

I don't really want to read through the whole thing; there's nothing in the introduction that catches my interest.

If it's really so great, I wish you could tell me what in it is so, and why it is so.

 

[DarkSign]

d20 isnt a bad system at all. It covers just about any situation you can think of and some you havent thought of yet. It's simple but sophisticated.

 

[Claw]

You have to get into it deeper. The beauty of it is how it deals with so much and complex/detailed situations while staying realistic and simple.

Part of the introduction explains why d20 sucks. The obsession with that kind of dice by roleplayers is strange

How about a summery, maybe examples? I wasn't impressed by character creation and sheet at first glance. Why should I bother with a second?

Also, I am not impressed with dice in general, and random character creation specifically. I prefer buy systems with special traits to introduce variation, like negative traits or attributes for extra points.

 

[Sirbolt]

Fuck, nerds know next to nothing about strength. In the system Sheek posted the maximum strength a rolled character would have is 36, that equals being able to pick 200 kilos "of the floor". Which i'm guessing means its the amount the person can deadlift. Do i need to mention that that is ridiculously low for what would be "the worlds strongest man ever"? When rolling a character you also discard the highest number, so the chance of a character getting even the equivalent of my strength is embarasingly low. This is almost as bad as one system i saw that claimed that a two handed sword weighed 20 kilos...

 

[Balor]

Everybody knows that best ruleset is FATAL! (Well, if you are going for ultimate realism, that is).
After all, you don't get many system where you get such stats on a player like "Anal circumference potential" and "Ripped orifece" .
Well, those features aside, it's indeed one of the best systems I've ever witnessed.
But I'm a realism freak, so...

 

[Balor]

This is almost as bad as one system i saw that claimed that a two handed sword weighed 20 kilos...

Hah! The worst thing, this misconception is so widespread, that few people ever notice it... and some actually claim that it's errorneous... because "everybody knows" that twohanders must weight about 40 kgs or so!
Tell them that real twohanders (ceremonial ones aside - there are no more useful in real combat that those AK47s made of solid gold US troopes looted from Saddam palace) rarely weighted more then 4 kgs - and they go completely batshit!
I've witnessed some of those people on the forums - oriental martial arts/katana lovers are the worst of them, btw.
Like, one guy claimed that he used a katana for practice... and it weighted like 4 kgs! And it's a typcal weight for a katana! Is he a fucking pussy or what? Typcal weight of katana is 1-1.5 kgs, tops. No-dachi could be really huge and weight like a real twohander (4 kgs), but is a different type of sword (more of a cutlass, in application and techique, actually), and he described a normal katana when he talked about it.
I hate people that talk about subject only after seeing a few anime/fantasy movies.

 

[LCJr.]

I was wondering when somebody would bring that charming system up. Thanks for restoring my faith in the Codex Balor.

 

[sheek]

You have to get into it deeper. The beauty of it is how it deals with so much and complex/detailed situations while staying realistic and simple.

Part of the introduction explains why d20 sucks. The obsession with that kind of dice by roleplayers is strange

How about a summery, maybe examples? I wasn't impressed by character creation and sheet at first glance. Why should I bother with a second?

Well like I said the 3d12 skill system works very well (in a way d20 can't - there just aren't enough possibilities), the stats used are good (and include a system for temporary changes based on (use)disuse, lethargy, age, health), the combat system is great (with lots of optional rules) and character generation/development is totally based on occupation/life events up to the game start (like Darklands) - and experience is dealt with through a motivation/training system, not the level-up crap.

AD&D has a real shitty combat system and the unimaginative idea of archetype classes should have been thrown out a long time ago.

So no there's nothing amazingly innovative about Cinis but I tried it and it works great.

 

[MINIGUNWIELDER]

This is almost as bad as one system i saw that claimed that a two handed sword weighed 20 kilos...

Hah! The worst thing, this misconception is so widespread, that few people ever notice it... and some actually claim that it's errorneous... because "everybody knows" that twohanders must weight about 40 kgs or so!
Tell them that real twohanders (ceremonial ones aside - there are no more useful in real combat that those AK47s made of solid gold US troopes looted from Saddam palace) rarely weighted more then 4 kgs - and they go completely batshit!
I've witnessed some of those people on the forums - oriental martial arts/katana lovers are the worst of them, btw.
Like, one guy claimed that he used a katana for practice... and it weighted like 4 kgs! And it's a typcal weight for a katana! Is he a fucking pussy or what? Typcal weight of katana is 1-1.5 kgs, tops. No-dachi could be really huge and weight like a real twohander (4 kgs), but is a different type of sword (more of a cutlass, in application and techique, actually), and he described a normal katana when he talked about it.
I hate people that talk about subject only after seeing a few anime/fantasy movies.

I can understand getting Wakizashis and Katanas mixed up but God that is fucking stupid.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I own a couple of friggin battle axes that don't weigh that much (well, maybe one). WTF!

 

[Claw]

AD&D has a real shitty combat system and the unimaginative idea of archetype classes should have been thrown out a long time ago.

Like I sure said before, I don't think D&D is hard to beat.

I glanced over the character section, and it's not bad, especially the backstory parts, but I saw nothing that made me go "WOW" - maybe I am just the wrong adressee, it'd really take some outstanding feature to rise my interest to the point where I'd really read it.

 

[Spazmo]

d20 is kind of like an object oriented ruleset, if such an analogy can be allowed. Yeah, you can specifically design a ruleset that's better at doing one thing (and I completely agree, CRPG developers ought to), but where d20 is strong is its ability to be modified and extended easily to accomodate all sorts of different gameplay mechanics, from fantasy to sci-fi and all points in between (and beyond). Plus, it's a very intuitive system. Roll d20, higher is better.

 

[LCJr.]

GURPS is kind of like an object oriented ruleset, if such an analogy can be allowed. Yeah, you can specifically design a ruleset that's better at doing one thing (and I completely agree, CRPG developers ought to), but where GURPS is strong is its ability to be modified and extended easily to accomodate all sorts of different gameplay mechanics, from fantasy to sci-fi and all points in between (and beyond).

Fixed. Long live handfuls of d6!

 

[sheek]

OK if Cinis is not great (I never said it was, just the overall best I've seen), what rulesets do you like?

 

[Monolith]

Everybody knows that best ruleset is FATAL! (Well, if you are going for ultimate realism, that is).
After all, you don't get many system where you get such stats on a player like "Anal circumference potential" and "Ripped orifece" .
Well, those features aside, it's indeed one of the best systems I've ever witnessed.
But I'm a realism freak, so...

Any links?

 

[LCJr.]

Host seems to be having problems or is gone, keep getting timeouts. http://www.fatalgames.com

I'm sure Balor or Saint has a copy they could probably upload for you. Surprised the Codex isn't hosting it already.

So in lieu of the actual goods a few reviews.

http://www.gamewyrd.com/review/567
http://atrocities.primaryerror.net/fatal.html
http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_5754.html

 

[ad hominem]

I would think that it's more a function of the cost of licensing an existing system is much less than the cost of creating your own. Additionally, you don't have to program any trainers or anything into the game, as most people will already understand the ruleset.

 

[Twinfalls]

Then game companies went IPO, and that was the start of the GAYENNING.

I knew you were a latent commie

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Then game companies went IPO, and that was the start of the GAYENNING.

I knew you were a latent commie

Game companies are one of the industries where the standard IPO model just doesn't work. When you have a game that takes "two years" to develop but you have to show your investors something every three months and promise them how cool it will be in terms of sales.. Things tend to screw up. Games typically take a little longer to develop than the first scheduled release estimate as well. So, they either release the game before it's done or they piss off investors.