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S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2: Heart of Chornobyl - coming November 20th

Gerrard

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Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,535
normie Gerrard
Why fake news? You talked about first game and not fully pimped anomaly with graphic mods.
It looks like it's running on DX8 mode and with textures on the lowest setting. These are original textures, the only graphic mods I have are shaders that add ambient occlusion, because when the game came out SSAO wasn't even a thing.

zXmMbFZ.jpg
 

Iucounu

Educated
Joined
Jul 4, 2023
Messages
794
I think video footage is more important than screenshots, and even the new trailer looks a bit uneven. Especially the cutscene where the NPC throws a bolt to you seems way lower in quality than the rest.

Some comparisons between the new and previous trailer here:

 

NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
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Messages
12,067
Gerrard it looks like it.
Still, this looks unsightly and nowhere near that screenshot. We should objectively critic this game, but seriously claiming it has stalker 1 graphic is insincere.

STALKER_6c.jpg
Honestly, even after all these years there is something I really like about Shadow of Chernobyl's graphics.
 

Iucounu

Educated
Joined
Jul 4, 2023
Messages
794
Some pics for comparison
UFaEMmw.jpg
If both images are from finished areas it could mean house models are reused multiple times. That almost never happened in the original games, where every structure was a unique model. Only exception I remember is the house with broken roof in Wild Territory and Brain Scorcher (and generic objects like trailers or vehicles, of course).

Can't see any graphic quality difference between the two images, the top one just has more debris and vegetation models on the road, distance haze and a different time of day.
 

Baron Dupek

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,871,134
Some pics for comparison
UFaEMmw.jpg
If both images are from finished areas it could mean house models are reused multiple times. That almost never happened in the original games, where every structure was a unique model.

Can't see any graphic quality difference between the two images, the top one just has more debris and vegetation models on the road, distance haze and a different time of day.
that's not surprising when you remember ShoC developement - they really took their sweet time, throwing (wild) concepts around and making assets.
At least they used their time better than 3D Realms who wasted most of the time on World of Warcraft
 

Iucounu

Educated
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Jul 4, 2023
Messages
794
If both images are from finished areas it could mean house models are reused multiple times. That almost never happened in the original games, where every structure was a unique model.
that's not surprising when you remember ShoC developement - they really took their sweet time, throwing (wild) concepts around and making assets.
At least they used their time better than 3D Realms who wasted most of the time on World of Warcraft
That's the gamble with any research or innovation... But in the case of Stalker's levels it also means much of that innovative work is already done --"remastering" the older levels for Stalker 2 should be routine work now, with only completely new areas requiring design creativity. But if Stalker 2 really will have one coherent Zone, the intermediate areas between the old ones could become pretty large in total. What a shame if they have to resort to cloned buildings just to deliver on the marketing gimmic "giant Zone with no level changers".
 
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Iucounu

Educated
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Jul 4, 2023
Messages
794
Am I correct that everybody that played the Gamescom demo describe the same chain of events (dog-kick cutscene -> stalkers shooting dogs -> player shooting bandits -> emission cutscene)? Has anyone reported something different?

Sounds like a scripted corridor to me, unless all the demo players just happened to walk in the same direction by chance. And since the emission is a cutscene about knocking on a door there must be a local trigger for it. One Youtuber even circumvented the bandits, which should have saved him some time instead of fighting them; but apparently he still got the emission shortly after.

Maybe it's just an intentionally limited demo, or the game's beginnings are a bit corridor-like, like Clear Sky's first outpost mission.
 

ferratilis

Magister
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
2,648
These guys say that a lot of stuff felt unfinished and NPCs seemed like placeholders. Also, Phil Spencer told them to go easy on the team lol. There's no way this game is coming out in Q1 2024. But I guess we all knew that already.
 

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,484
normie Gerrard
Why fake news? You talked about first game and not fully pimped anomaly with graphic mods.
It looks like it's running on DX8 mode and with textures on the lowest setting. These are original textures, the only graphic mods I have are shaders that add ambient occlusion, because when the game came out SSAO wasn't even a thing.

zXmMbFZ.jpg

Man, I played the game with Complete 2012 2009 and I was just blown away by the visuals back then.

stalker-complete2012-1.jpg
stalker-complete2012-2.jpg
stalker-complete2012-3.jpg
stalker-complete2012-4.jpg

stalker-complete2012-5.jpg
stalker-complete2012-6.jpg
stalker-complete2012-7.jpg
stalker-complete2012-8.jpg


Hell, it still looks amazing, the geometry's a bit dated by contemporary standards, but the lighting and textures are top notch.
 
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Stavrophore

Most trustworthy slavic man
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Strap Yourselves In
High quality lighting has essentially vanished from gaming.

Stalker has very natural lighting, no "upping" no "fantasified" palette or other hdr/levels fuckery. Combined with natural material feeling it gets you a grouned, realistic look, very well complementing the post-soviet, one could say "depressing" brutalist architecture. If you can't intrigue a viewer with architectural detail which brutalist commie blocks don't have, you at least have to give them the feeling of the texture, grit and grain of the materials used. I think stalker devs were aware of this. Its amazing how the combination of concrete, rebar and lighting in stalker can feel natural. The PBR pipeline can give you superior detail, but it also lazifies the process with premade materials and easy generator modifiers in programs like Substance Painter, hence the lazy assets we see in games. To make believable concrete or rust is A LOT of work. I guess no one cares about spending a lot of time to perfect things when it doesn't sell more games. Big devs do questionnaires of consumer preferences and things like realistic material textures are pretty low on the uninformed consumer list. Even RDR2 fails in this regard, a game known for attention to detail, the upscaling and smearing of today games[rdr 2 is a good example with its shitty AA] also doesn't help to show fine details.
 

janior

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SoC has probably the crispiest textures for 2007 that still look great, you just had bloom enabled and bunch of other shit settings so it looks bad
 

Stavrophore

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normie Gerrard
Why fake news? You talked about first game and not fully pimped anomaly with graphic mods.
It looks like it's running on DX8 mode and with textures on the lowest setting. These are original textures, the only graphic mods I have are shaders that add ambient occlusion, because when the game came out SSAO wasn't even a thing.

zXmMbFZ.jpg

Man, I played the game with Complete 2012 and I was just blown away by the visuals back then.

stalker-complete2012-1.jpg
stalker-complete2012-2.jpg
stalker-complete2012-3.jpg
stalker-complete2012-4.jpg

stalker-complete2012-5.jpg
stalker-complete2012-6.jpg
stalker-complete2012-7.jpg
stalker-complete2012-8.jpg


Hell, it still looks amazing, the geometry's a bit dated by contemporary standards, but the lighting and textures are top notch.

Complete replace a lot of textures.
 

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,484
I played the game with Complete 2012
If I were a mod, I'd ban you right now.

Sadly, that's how many people experience the trilogy for the first time. I do try to warn people but you can't save everyone.
I half expected some flak, so what's the beef with Complete anyway? I remember it was meant to have some gameplay changes, but not how extensive anymore, it was a long time ago.
 

ferratilis

Magister
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
2,648
I half expected some flak, so what's the beef with Complete anyway? I remember it was meant to have some gameplay changes, but not how extensive anymore, it was a long time ago.
"some" is an understatement. The changes it introduces completely trivialize the experience that was originally intended, along with the difficulty. The beginning of Stalker is supposed to be hard, you're supposed to struggle to find resources and weapons you get are mostly pea shooters. By doing it this way, progression is more satisfying. Complete mod makes weapons more accurate, makes sprinting infinite, significantly reduces weapon degradation (or completely removes it, not sure at this point), and increases inventory capacity to the point where all the aforementioned elements that make progression satisfying are neutered. Also, by making weapons more accurate, it neuters the enemy AI because the AI was designed around original limitations. They also reduced NPCs vision cones to make stealth viable, further trivializing the game. As far as I remember, it also added some sounds from Half-Life or other games that are completely out of place.

And the worst thing of all, instead of fixing bugs, it added new bugs that didn't exist before. Some people like the visual changes, but imo they are completely unnecessary, the original looks just fine. You robbed yourself of an amazing experience by playing an inferior version of the game.
 

Tacgnol

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significantly reduces weapon degradation (or completely removes it, not sure at this point)

Reduced durability loss rather than removed for what it's worth, though the most offensive change for me is that they made the PC tougher on all difficulties.

You already end up a bullet sponge in the original trilogy after enough gear upgrades, there is no need to accelerate that process.
 

NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
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Sep 6, 2022
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You already end up a bullet sponge in the original trilogy after enough gear upgrades, there is no need to accelerate that process.
That's not the case on Master difficulty.
Master is the way to play the games.
 

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,484
"some" is an understatement. The changes it introduces completely trivialize the experience that was originally intended, along with the difficulty. The beginning of Stalker is supposed to be hard, you're supposed to struggle to find resources and weapons you get are mostly pea shooters. By doing it this way, progression is more satisfying. Complete mod makes weapons more accurate, makes sprinting infinite, significantly reduces weapon degradation (or completely removes it, not sure at this point), and increases inventory capacity to the point where all the aforementioned elements that make progression satisfying are neutered. Also, by making weapons more accurate, it neuters the enemy AI because the AI was designed around original limitations. They also reduced NPCs vision cones to make stealth viable, further trivializing the game. As far as I remember, it also added some sounds from Half-Life or other games that are completely out of place.
Hold on, first off I made a mistake, I just checked my old files and I played it with Complete 2009, not 2012. Not sure why I got those wires crossed.

So did that shift across different iterations of the mod? 'Cause I absolutely had weapons breaking down with dire results and sprinting was aggressively limited by inventory load (though I think the overburdened threshold was 10Kg higher than the original). I skimmed the Readme and the only gameplay changes I saw listed were Bulbs Soc (can shoot out lights), AI Pack 10005 (NPCs can throw grenades, change armour and heal other NPCs), Normal Accuracy Plus 1.0 ("slight" increase) and Rules of Engagement 0.1 (nerfed NPC perception past 500m).

Frankly, I found nothing trivial about the game, it was still distinctly hard and especially merciless in the beginning. And if stealth was enabled at the expense of some AI challenge, I could see that as a value proposition.

You robbed yourself of an amazing experience by playing an inferior version of the game.
I had an amazing experience either way, it's why I still remember the game fifteen years down the line.
 

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