Review SA trashes Oblivion Radiant AI

[Stupid Man]

RADIANT, BITCHES! YOU'RE IMMERSED IN IT!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fRWY6TOeR1Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=F8hetpJxXSw

 

[Section8]

Hah! That dinner party vid was tops. I can't believe ragdoll physics actually served a useful purpose in Oblivion - making that clip funny as hell.

 

[bryce777]

Holy shit - finally watched the video.

I hate to flip flop, but I am DEIFNITELY getting oblivion now. I laughed myself silly.

Not until next time I upgrade, though.

 

[Crichton]

I shouldn't read the ES forums, but I found this and it almost makes up for it,

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=334683&st=20

The one thing that amazes me the most, is how the AI always wants to solve things in the most violent way possible.

Anyone ever try to finish the Anvil (I think) Mages Guild Recommendation quest, where you hunt down some rogue battlemage while there was an Imperial Guard on the road? Minor Mages Guild spoilers here, but ah ...

Well, you get these two full fledged battlemages tailing you, ready to kill anything that attacks you on sight. So you get "held up" by this rogue mage lady, she attacks, your backup arrives and starts whacking her, and out of the blue comes an Imperial Guard, eager for a good fight. He goes toe-to-toe melee with the rogue mage, and consequentually gets hit by an AoE spell from one of the two battlemages. Which makes him ignore the perp, and go straight for the good guys' throats, causing them to summon some Daedra to kill him while they finish the rogue mage...

I had several outcomes;
- Everyone dead, except for me
- Everyone but the actual rogue battlemage and me dead (how is that even possible?)
- Rogue battlemage and imperial soldier dead (this was the one I picked, I just killed the damn Imperial Guy)
- Rogue battlemage, Imperial Soldier and one of the good battlemages dead

... Way to enforce the law, the damn guard totally hampered that quest. Worst thing was, I couldn't wait him out, as a Daedroth had killed his horse, and he was just wandering around on the same patch of grass for several days.

For my own part, I surprised myself recently by actually getting the AI to do something intellegent. I had just snuck into the mythic Dawn temple place, killed people, freed the prisoner and stolen their book, but I was having trouble escaping. If I alterted too many of the mages, they fried me with lightning. So I took up waiting for them to go to sleep and then sneak attacking them. It wouldn't kill them ("master" of fist-fighting indeed), but it would take off about 3/4 of their health, at which point, instead of trying to fight it out with me, they'd heal and run to the alter in the secondary cavern. Eventually this alter had about 10 mythic dawn mages all huddled together in fear of the monster cat in the shadows. It made so much sense that I wondered if those mages had different AI settings than everyone else.

 

[bryce777]

Hmm, that semi makes sense but wouldn't they regroup in a couple hours and not stay there for weeks on end?

 

[Crichton]

As soon as they were out of the way, I left. I suppose I could go back now and see what they're doing. Most NPC's seem to go back to their default script fairly quickly once a crisis has passed.

 

[Twinfalls]

I like the way the only thing that Retarded AI produces (apart from lame scheduling) is psychopathic guards who do nothing but kill people who randomly steal.

NPC steals a fork - and gets hunted down and KILLED by the guards. An old lady steals an apple - and DIES at the guards' hands.

Now that's an empire you really want to save!

 

[bryce777]

As soon as they were out of the way, I left. I suppose I could go back now and see what they're doing. Most NPC's seem to go back to their default script fairly quickly once a crisis has passed.

Well, you are waiting til each one goes to sleep, right? Or did you actually wait til they all went to sleep - I guess that makes sense....

 

[obediah]

There really are some gems in this game.

I was recently in a dungeon with a big log trap that blocks a hallway. I had four skeletons chasing me, so I jumped over it. They all lined up side-by-side and ran into. They got a nice rythm going with the log swaying up and then back, but they couldn't quite get it high enough to go under.

I snuck into a boat to kill the captain, and heard the guards asking him if he was okay through the door - they sounded very concerned. They then came through, drew their weapons and ... wait for it... started gossiping.

So many wild mood swings, and innapropriate random quotes, I hardly notice them anymore.

My complaint of the day are the quests on rails. "I, the great lich lord of Zackabillybong, am sorry. Please reattach my hand so I can properly apologize to the kittens." The game provides no avenue for me to be suspicous of this, other than abandoning the quest.

In the stolen painting quest, one person's alliby was looking at stars on a night where everyone else complained about horrible storms. However, there's nothing I can do with this insight.

I don't know how many times I've been "tricked" or whatever. Beth did put a lot of effort into the quests. and they have a depth and character to show for it. A little more emphasis on roleplaying would have gone a long way though.

 

[bryce777]

"they sounded very concerned. They then came through, drew their weapons and ... wait for it... started gossiping." LOL

 

[Twinfalls]

I snuck into a boat to kill the captain, and heard the guards asking him if he was okay through the door - they sounded very concerned. They then came through, drew their weapons and ... wait for it... started gossiping.

Need a sig anyone?

 

[Section8]

My complaint of the day are the quests on rails. "I, the great lich lord of Zackabillybong, am sorry. Please reattach my hand so I can properly apologize to the kittens." The game provides no avenue for me to be suspicous of this, other than abandoning the quest.

...or telling the Guildmaster that her underlings want you to steal her shit for a prank. Or using detect life to spot an invisible cat and talking to it for a single response of "Stop it, you'll spoil everything!" That's the idea, dipshit.

...or becoming initiated into the Mythic Dawn, and having no way out of the hideout until you steal their holy book.

...or killing random fish and/or buying scales instead of ones specifically spawned sequentially for the quest.

...etc.

In the stolen painting quest, one person's alliby was looking at stars on a night where everyone else complained about horrible storms. However, there's nothing I can do with this insight.

That one was particularly horrible, especially because I had to engage in thievery to succesfully complete the quest, which kind of flies against my "good guy bringing the hammer of justice down" ideal.

My favourite one so far though would have to be the "Follow <shithead> and find out where he gets his merchandise. Don't worry about being clandestine about it, in fact you're more than likely to have to push him every now and then to reset his pathfinding when it breaks" quest.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I like the way the only thing that Retarded AI produces (apart from lame scheduling) is psychopathic guards who do nothing but kill people who randomly steal.

NPC steals a fork - and gets hunted down and KILLED by the guards. An old lady steals an apple - and DIES at the guards' hands.

Now that's an empire you really want to save!

I think it's even better that the guards will attack each other if the player attacks one person and then stops fighting at all. The guard will attack the player, the player moves near a new guard and that new guard will attack the original guard for fighting the player. Hell, Morrowind was better than that.

 

[dagamer667]

That's what beth deserves afteyr hyping the daylight of the Retarded Intelligence. Gothic may have had scripted NPC routines, but at least they were much more convincing than what Oblivion's npcs do at the moment. Beth is in the right direction with RAI, but needs way more tweaking to look good.

 

[Thrawn05]

That's what beth deserves afteyr hyping the daylight of the Retarded Intelligence. Gothic may have had scripted NPC routines, but at least they were much more convincing than what Oblivion's npcs do at the moment. Beth is in the right direction with RAI, but needs way more tweaking to look good.

This is why non-scripted AI works best in a closed controlled environment like the Sims. There are just too many things that can happen in a large game like OB that can break the original intentions of the programmers.

 

[Zinc]

I found this one quite funny.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ai&pl=true

 

[obediah]

Oh, I forgot all about the fight down by the docks. Two blokes going at it old school. Except which ever one you faced would stop fighting, and make idle chit-chat with you while the other one pummeled the fuck out him.

I'm still looking for the potion of cast shadow through wall/floor that everyone else in the world seems to have taken. In some places, it's as good as detect life. I'd understand if this was some weird chipset, graphic card issue, but I'm playing the 360 version - how could they not notice this in testing.

 

[bryce777]

That's what beth deserves afteyr hyping the daylight of the Retarded Intelligence. Gothic may have had scripted NPC routines, but at least they were much more convincing than what Oblivion's npcs do at the moment. Beth is in the right direction with RAI, but needs way more tweaking to look good.

This is why non-scripted AI works best in a closed controlled environment like the Sims. There are just too many things that can happen in a large game like OB that can break the original intentions of the programmers.

They only make is so more things can happen. It's programming.