Review SciFi reviews Metalheart and comments on Fallout

[Sisyphus]

I didn't say it wasn't straightforward, I said it was clunky. As in, more steps than necessary to do something even if those steps are simple and logical.

Even the inventory... getting to something in inventory involves scrolling down that annoying list, without mousewheel working if I remember correctly.

Why didn't you sort your inventory? Stimpacks, money and favorite ammo at top, the rest down below? It's pretty easy to sort things when anything new is always put on the top of the stack. Open a shelf, move the stuff you want on top to the shelf and then move it back to the inventory. Voila! No scrolling. You just have to work around it.

And I can't remember mousewheels being around in 1997. At least I never had one and I usually had cutting edge hardware.

Did you try the pageup and pagedown keys? People were still using DOS and were still used to using keyboards in games.

No, I wouldn't complain if I had to click on the guy to start talking again. That's what we call the USUAL way it's done, and it's done that way for a reason: it isn't annoying.

Not that BOTH options couldn't have been provided.

Which brings me to my main point. The Fallout interface was innovative and wonderful back in 1997. Being able to right click and bring up menu selections was a dream. It may not be a slick as what you are used to now, but I bet some of what you are used to was pioneered in Fallout. You have to put the interface in the context of the time that it was created...

I wonder if the author of the Sci-Fi article was a computer gamer in 1997? Or 1982, or 1974, like I was, when you had to either program your own game on the mainframe or play checkers and text adventures. What the fuck does he mean "over-rated?" What's he comparing it to? Might and Magic 6? Ultima 7 or 8? Diablo? System Shock? Or so-called modern "wonders" like KOTOR2 or Dungeon Siege. He doesn't have a fucking clue.

Fallout is not "over-rated." It was a seminal game whose influence is still being felt today in the RPG genre -- even as we discuss it 8 years after release. To nitpck about the "interface forcing play style" is absolutely ludicrous when you're discussing one of the first games that actually let you choose a huge variety of playstyles - evil, good, thief, bully, murderous maniac, talker, whatever.

If you find the Fallout interface annoying, all I can say is that you must be speaking from the arrogance of 8 years hindsight. Why don't you buy a copy of a milestone RPG like System Shock, from 3 years earlier than Fallout? You should be able to pick up a copy on eBay. Try that interface on for size -- which was, once again, innovative -- and tell me if you still think Fallout is "clunky."

(First time poster, though I've lurked for a long time. Sorry for butting into the conversation but I was starting to get really annoyed... )

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[Naked_Lunch]

What's he comparing it to? Might and Magic 6? Ultima 7 or 8? Diablo? System Shock?

Dunno why he'd compare it to Ultima 8, it sucked.

He's probably one of those thousands of people who think KotOR is the most non-linear and open-ended and bestest AHR-PEE-GEE ever. Whatever. I have little patience for morons.

And yes, you can use the PageUp and Down buttons to scroll through the inventory.

 

[Seven]

No, I wouldn't complain if I had to click on the guy to start talking again. That's what we call the USUAL way it's done, and it's done that way for a reason: it isn't annoying.

Not that BOTH options couldn't have been provided.

What do you mean that's the traditional way that it's done? In game's that offer you the ability to trade with every NPC that you encounter the traditional way is to go back to dialogue so that you can finish up your conversation. BTW, we're not talking about some thing like BG here, where you had designated shop keepers whose only purpose was to trade. The characters in FO are beasts of a very different colour, if you can't recognize that then it's your failing.

 

[4too]

""Be Happy In Your Work""

""Be Happy In Your Work""


From the MH-Rep review:

... Fans of this style of older-school RPG will still be put off by the snail-paced movement system and static environments, but might find an acceptable game buried under mounds of requisite patience.

If one were to intellectually fabricate, or chemically induce a sense of caring where this reviewer is coming from,
one could go a 'click' further and wonder why there is no 'positive' game comparisons.
A 'positive' ROLE model might have buffered the 'back handed' praise in the review.

Perhaps the reviewer doesn't - like - RPG's, or has found computer gaming a tedious chore.

Bad hair day?

Change of life trauma?

Perhaps the reviewer is 'world weary', or naturally 'bitchy'.

Sat to pee and found the seat of ease in the "up" position?

Perhaps the reviewer just adores talking down to the rest of the planet, from whatever (non specified) higher moral plane he has 'leveled' to.

I'm empty of 'empathy' at this point, and must pass on the 'talking stick' .... Luv' yo' syntax man ... Thanks for using spell che'k ...




4too

 

[Atrokkus]

Sarvis:

Having to go from shopping window to dialog instead of being able to just leave the shopping window.

That's actually a very good feature. Because the trading IS a part of dialog, it's not something that you can (well in most cases) finish without uttering a word. Either shopkeepr must say something, and you either continue the dialog, or say goodbyes. Or you may select another dialog option that allows access to other supplies of the same shopkeeper (as in San-Francisco or New-Reno Arms).
A very RPGish approach.

Having to open up inventory to remove your weapon when entering a town, instead of having a sheathe weapons button.

You got two weapons slots, remember? You can switch to the one with a stimpack or something and that'll be it.

Even the inventory... getting to something in inventory involves scrolling down that annoying list

WEll, that was pretty tedious. But you could have scrolled with arrows on your keyboard, which is faster.



Anyways, Sarv, what the hell are you complaining about?
How come interface is of higher a priority than actualy roleplaying? I wouldn't give a fuck even if it had REALLY horrible interface, like most other games of its age had.


And the article.... OMG it's just TOO retarded...
Author has no respect for the RPG genre, and lacks ANY concept of what it is. that's typical nowadays.

 

[LlamaGod]

The dual cursor system was pretty bitchin, I like it much more then radial menus.

Also: what exactly is Fallout a second coming of? If anything we are still waiting for that second coming, with Fallout being the big mighty one we want everything like.

 

[bryce777]

Yet the same guy gives Jade Empire high marks even though he actually concedes in the review that it's fairly inept as a role-playing game. Neato.

What's your point? Jade Empire is a fun game, a good game. It's only an inept RPG because it isn't really an RPG!

<b>Flink</b>

It's clunky.

Ex.
Having to go from shopping window to dialog instead of being able to just leave the shopping window.
Having to open up inventory to remove your weapon when entering a town, instead of having a sheathe weapons button.


There was other stuff too, but basically the interface annoyed me and killed whatever other fun might have been in the game.

that is ridiculous and pathetic if it bothered you that much.

It is a typical rusky crazy interface, and not 1/10 as bad as arcanum even.

It is not at all difficult to use - you have lost it if that killed fallout for you.

 

[bryce777]

Wehn scifi can make an inhouse movie that is as good as a recording of fallout or xcom would be as a movie, then I might listen to them.

This is coming from the makers of Alien Express! and that fucking ludicrous sabertooth tiger movie. Uwe Boll's got nothing on these clowns.

 

[LlamaGod]

It's fun when they cant find programming and just run all their sci-fi originals.

Dragon Warriors and the one about killer bees are pretty retarded.

I like in the dragon one where the dragon shows up and they try to shoot it with a shotgun from far range.

 

[Sandelfron]

<a href=http://www.scifi.com>SciFi</a> has posted a semi-retarded <a href=http://www.scifi.com/sfw/current/games.html>review</a> of <a href=http://www.metalheart.ru/>Metalheart</a>, comparing it to Fallout.

It's a pity there isn't a 'comment on this review' textbox, because I'd have liked
to let the reviewer know that he's shown gamers that he's a cretinous buffoon.

 

[Gromnir]

<a href=http://www.scifi.com>SciFi</a> has posted a semi-retarded <a href=http://www.scifi.com/sfw/current/games.html>review</a> of <a href=http://www.metalheart.ru/>Metalheart</a>, comparing it to Fallout.

It's a pity there isn't a 'comment on this review' textbox, because I'd have liked
to let the reviewer know that he's shown gamers that he's a cretinous buffoon.

you may be right that the reviewer is a “cretinous buffoon,” but he were spot on 'bout one thing: fallout was and is a ridiculously overrated game.

however, we confess that we loves to listen to fallout fans defend the faith from heretics and heathens... and any and all peoples who might have the temerity to suggest that fallout ai were crap, or that the story were thin or that gameplay balance were non existent or that the interface were, at best, clumsy. every stoopid mistake made by cain and co suddenly becomes a brilliant but misunderstood bit o' game design... at least when the game is examined under the transcendent illumination o' FAITH

all hail fallout

all hail cain

ah hell, what a load o' crap.

fallout were a game that we enjoyed mightily, but we liked it in spite of its numerous warts.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Your post reeks of the stench of filthy lies.

 

[Gromnir]

Your post reeks of the stench of filthy lies.

no, no, no.

Your post reeks of the stench of filthy lies, you mangy heathen dog. May a thousand diseased fleas find shelter in your short and curlies, o' venoumous defiler, o' speaker of vile heresies. I spit on you dog!

see? is no more insightful the way Gromnir wrote, but is much more colorful... and is more likely to get you your 78 digital ghoul virgins when you die.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Gromnir, I want you to do me a favor. Find the person who repeatedly dropped you on the head when you were an infant, and kick them in the balls for cursing us with your idiocy.

 

[Gromnir]

another brilliant reply... the codex at its best we s'pose.

oh, and that were uncle Comes In Sight who dropped us on our head. he were a bit clumsy and a little bit of an alcoholic, so nobody really blamed him for fumbling the baby. he were one hell of a deft hand with horses though. kinda balanced out.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Sarvis]

Why didn't you sort your inventory? Stimpacks, money and favorite ammo at top, the rest down below? It's pretty easy to sort things when anything new is always put on the top of the stack. Open a shelf, move the stuff you want on top to the shelf and then move it back to the inventory. Voila! No scrolling. You just have to work around it.

So when I'm in the field and I need to find that gun I never use except when I run out of ammo I just need to run to the nearest shelf. Great!

Did you try the pageup and pagedown keys? People were still using DOS and were still used to using keyboards in games.

That might have helped...

Which brings me to my main point. The Fallout interface was innovative and wonderful back in 1997. Being able to right click and bring up menu selections was a dream. It may not be a slick as what you are used to now, but I bet some of what you are used to was pioneered in Fallout. You have to put the interface in the context of the time that it was created...

Ok, maybe you're right about all that. However, since I only recently tried Fallout the interface felt like shit to me. I had the same problem when I tried Champions of Krynn actually, the interface just got too tedious for me to want to continue... the big difference being that I was actually enjoying Krynn otherwise!

Fallout is not "over-rated." It was a seminal game whose influence is still being felt today in the RPG genre -- even as we discuss it 8 years after release.

Umm... considering the main references to Fallout, even on htis site, is how all other games DON'T do the things Fallout did I'm not sure how much it's influence is actually being felt today... heh.

If you find the Fallout interface annoying, all I can say is that you must be speaking from the arrogance of 8 years hindsight. Why don't you buy a copy of a milestone RPG like System Shock, from 3 years earlier than Fallout? You should be able to pick up a copy on eBay. Try that interface on for size -- which was, once again, innovative -- and tell me if you still think Fallout is "clunky."

If your point is that I should like Fallout's interface because it isn't as bad as System Shock's, it's not a very good point. 8 years of hindsight or not.

[/quote]

 

[Atrokkus]

Umm... considering the main references to Fallout, even on htis site, is how all other games DON'T do the things Fallout did I'm not sure how much it's influence is actually being felt today... heh.

Name a better PA RPG. That's first.
Wasteland was a blast, but hell it's still not as good.
Now, please name a game that really had as much freedom as Fallout did. I mean, no geographic freedom, as any Morr-shit has, but real freedom. Making decisions that affect the world around you, having conversation options that have so much influence on the npc you are talking to (only TOrment could beat that), and especially, the world that is living on its own, and the time that matters so much -- procrastinate, and the entire city might get slaughtered, or your own vault.
And FO2, despite popular opinion, was a very potent sequel and offered even more freedom of choice.
Damn, Fallouts are the only games that I finished about 8 times each and got bored only afterwards.
ANd with some mods I'm ready to start another walkthru right now.

 

[Atrokkus]

Yet again, it's all matter of personal preference. If you don't like the game -- fine. But that doesn't mean it's shit.

 

[bryce777]

It's fun when they cant find programming and just run all their sci-fi originals.

Dragon Warriors and the one about killer bees are pretty retarded.

I like in the dragon one where the dragon shows up and they try to shoot it with a shotgun from far range.

I haven't seen those, but NOTHING could be worse than the sabertooth tiger thing.

This thing was a CARTOON! Like tony the tiger!

They had this WAY over the top stereotypical crazy street negro fight this cartoon character and loose at one point. I swear, it was the most unbelievable couple of minutes in television history.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

So when I'm in the field and I need to find that gun I never use except when I run out of ammo I just need to run to the nearest shelf. Great!

Or you could hit "I" at any time and sort it that way. All you have to do is click on an item and let it go. THAT'S PRETTY TAXING!

Ok, maybe you're right about all that. However, since I only recently tried Fallout the interface felt like shit to me. I had the same problem when I tried Champions of Krynn actually, the interface just got too tedious for me to want to continue... the big difference being that I was actually enjoying Krynn otherwise!

It seems strange that someone who enjoys Baldur's Gate would bitch about Fallout's interface considering how bulky and irritating BG's interface was.

Umm... considering the main references to Fallout, even on htis site, is how all other games DON'T do the things Fallout did I'm not sure how much it's influence is actually being felt today... heh.

A lot of those comments are about developers who try to do things similar to what Fallout did but not nearly as well. For example, a lot of gaming media fags give KotOR the credit for being the GOOD vs. EVIL INNOVATOR when KotOR's brand of evil was often someone in the party telling you how bad you were for trying to do something and not actually letting you do it.

 

[Sarvis]

Umm... considering the main references to Fallout, even on htis site, is how all other games DON'T do the things Fallout did I'm not sure how much it's influence is actually being felt today... heh.

Name a better PA RPG. That's first.
Wasteland was a blast, but hell it's still not as good.
Now, please name a game that really had as much freedom as Fallout did. I mean, no geographic freedom, as any Morr-shit has, but real freedom. Making decisions that affect the world around you, having conversation options that have so much influence on the npc you are talking to (only TOrment could beat that), and especially, the world that is living on its own, and the time that matters so much -- procrastinate, and the entire city might get slaughtered, or your own vault.
And FO2, despite popular opinion, was a very potent sequel and offered even more freedom of choice.
Damn, Fallouts are the only games that I finished about 8 times each and got bored only afterwards.
ANd with some mods I'm ready to start another walkthru right now.

I think you misunderstood me. Fallout isn't influential because developers don't try to do the things that Fallout did well, so the only time Fallout is mentioned is when someone is complaining about the lack of a given feature in a game. Usually with you guys that feature is freedom...

It just wasn't influential, if it had been then LOTS of games would have that freedom these days... instead we get games that try to copy Fallout, like Metalheart apparently, but leave out the actual innovations Fallout is known for!

<b>Saint_proverbius</b>

Another rule of good interface design is that it should be simple to use and figure out without reading a manual. Since it took three of you to come up with hitting 'I' to sort, I'd wager Fallout failed in that regard.

Diablo 2's interface is ok, all the hotkeys are labled with popups and such so I didn't even need to look at the manual to jump right in.


I don't remember BG's interface very well, but I don't remember it being very bad at all... :shrug:

 

[bryce777]

I think you are the only knucklehead who couldn't figure it out without a manual.

 

[Sarvis]

I think you are the only knucklehead who couldn't figure it out without a manual.

Yeah, that's why some people suggested using a shelf to help sort items?

 

[theverybigslayer]

I agree with the review. Metalheart is terrible.

 

[Atrokkus]

Another rule of good interface design is that it should be simple to use and figure out without reading a manual. Since it took three of you to come up with hitting 'I' to sort, I'd wager Fallout failed in that regard.

Ya know, I actually haven't ever used this function, and had NO problem with interface whatsoever.
One should better focus on gameplay, rather than on interface. INterface is just that - interface, it doesn't define an RPG.
Just as with graphics -- some ppl are just too obsessed with it that they completely ignore or refuse to focus on other features, which are clearly superior.

It just wasn't influential, if it had been then LOTS of games would have that freedom these days...

Lots?
I can only name a very limited number of such great RPGs - Arcanum, Gothic, BG2 (too linear tho) and a couple of other remarkable games, but surely not lots.
I take it that your definition of freedom is once again quite different...