sea's (Mostly Technical) Skyrim Initial Impressions

[TripJack]

this is easily the best avatar on the codex

 

[Hoodoo]

so anybody been launched into space by ogres yet?

 

[Mortmal]

The truth is so many people here find it postive that my poll was moved to retardo land before more can pick an option, the forum has become as bad as the TES forum, there you cant say anything negative about any bethesda game, here you get the same level of censorship.

If you read this thread you'll find several people saying Skyrim sucks, you'll find several people saying that it's not terrible, a few people saying it's OK, another few saying that it's decent, a couple saying that it's good and one person saying that it's 'potentially great'.

Then you got one person who has made multiple posts proclaiming Skyrim to be absolute garbage, intentionally misinterpreting other posters all over the place to fuel his rage, while intentionally using lies, misinformation and exaggerations to try to back up several of his claims.


If anything, more people are posting about how much the game sucks than there are posters proclaiming it to be great. The general consensus seems to be that Skyrim is a decent game, worse than Morrowind, better than (vanilla?) Oblivion and by no means great or ground breaking.

I don't visit the TES forums, so I have no idea what they're talking about, but if I go by past experience I doubt it's anything like this thread.

Then theres a lot , really a lot of hypocrisy around, i mean just go on steam and see what people in rpgcodex group are playing , all the afternoon i may add, such torment they must endure.
Make a satisfaction poll if you dare, once people have played it.But no omg skyrim being rpgcodex game of the year or second best game likely after darksouls, the outrage!

 

[hoopy]

Seems like the game world is bigger than I thought. I moved to the west and the map expanded. So why is the starting area so squished together? It doesn't make sense.

As if it wasn't difficult enough to determine if somebody is a friend or foe, I just walked up to an orc who was just chilling and he greeted me, but then suddenly he and his friends all became hostile. So should I just kill everyone I see?

 

[ksjav]

Correction on quest directions. You can ask direction with static quest (eg. main quest) which use set locations. Misc quests pick a quest location during the game, so you just get a new map marker and a journal entry with the name of the place.

 

[Technoviking]

Then theres a lot , really a lot of hypocrisy around, i mean just go on steam and see what people in rpgcodex group are playing , all the afternoon i may add, such torment they must endure.
Make a satisfaction poll if you dare, once people have played it.But no omg skyrim being rpgcodex game of the year or second best game likely after darksouls, the outrage!

People don't have to love a game to play it. It's like with books, if you are a big reader like myself, then by the time you're just 20 it's almost impossible to find a book that blows you away any more. It doesn't mean I stop reading books altogether once I realize they don't they live up to some incredibly high standards. So long as they're more entertaining than watching Grey's Anatomy with my GF, it's very likely I'll still finish a book that's just decent, but not great.

In all seriousness though, if you only played great video games you quite honestly wouldn't play a whole lot, at least that's my guess. All my favourite games are still from the 90s, yet I still find myself picking up new video games to this day. None of them blow me away, but there are a few that I've actually enjoyed enough to not only play from start to finish, but to pick up again at a later date for a second play through.

You don't have to be a hypocrite for playing a game you don't love. (Hope I didn't misunderstand your point.)

 

[hoopy]

Jesus, how is it possible that a sneak attack with a sword doesn't instakill all humanoids? Kind of puts a damper on my stealth mission when some guy takes at most 25 % damage from my backstab. Stealthy characters should be glass cannons who get wrecked in single combat but can put a blade or arrow through your throat before you know what's up.

Oh wait, that's too complicated for Skyrim. There are no classes and nothing to distinguish one character from another.

Incidentally, I'm currently making my way through a large bandit stronghold that's a stone's throw away from a farm. When I first found the stronghold I assumed it was friendly because of the farm's proximity. Logical, right? But yeah, it's actually a bandit stronghold.

I'm also still finding archery difficult, even after 11 hours. I've always been good at intuitively hitting targets with arrows and grenades in other games, but in Skyrim I can literally use all my arrows trying to snipe one guy. The arrows just fly in a really strange way and you can't see where they land.

 

[circ]

I can't resist but laugh at the people trying too hard to do free advertising for yet another Bethesda turd in the very RPGCodex, supposing they aren't just trolls.

I don't know what they are, but seriously, double and triple digit post posters some of them having joined several years ago, apparently using their accounts for nothing else than calling critics trolls. Yeah right, not a shill account at all.

 

[Excidium]

Hey, since skyrim doesn't check for attacks on different body parts, can you just equip gloves or boots of a different armor type and level both skills everytime you get hit?

 

[sea]

Jesus, how is it possible that a sneak attack with a sword doesn't instakill all humanoids? Kind of puts a damper on my stealth mission when some guy takes at most 25 % damage from my backstab. Stealthy characters should be glass cannons who get wrecked in single combat but can put a blade or arrow through your throat before you know what's up.

Oh wait, that's too complicated for Skyrim. There are no classes and nothing to distinguish one character from another.

Could you take two seconds to look at the perks?

Perks basically are classes. Some of them are pretty dumb, like reduced falling damage and extra gold in chests, but most are a mix of either damage/speed bonuses or extra attack types and abilities. You want your glass cannon? There's a perk which gives you 15x damage when sneak-attacking. Is that not enough for you, or are you upset you have to level up a bit to get it?

Incidentally, I'm currently making my way through a large bandit stronghold that's a stone's throw away from a farm. When I first found the stronghold I assumed it was friendly because of the farm's proximity. Logical, right? But yeah, it's actually a bandit stronghold.

Yeah that's the one thing I hate about the game. At least most of them are semi-justified (one, there's a quest where you have to retake a castle taken over by bandits for its rightful owner, another, they often have journals etc. to read which explain why they're there), but world cohesion and making sense isn't exactly something Bethesda's good at.

 

[Gord]

Because if they aren't trolls, they are then just idiots for speaking good of an AAA game without getting paid for it. Even if they are trolls I'd say they're still stupid, and possibly terribly butthurt as it would hurt their egos to admit they wasted their money and/or time in a shit game.

Man your post is so hypocritical, you are putting Skyway to shame.
Talking about "fascism" because some people dare not to follow the "all games produced after 2000 suck" rule?

Who's butthurt here?

This is at least as as the fanboys at the Bethesda or Bioware forums.

 

[Stabwound]

I can't resist but laugh at the people trying too hard to do free advertising for yet another Bethesda turd in the very RPGCodex, supposing they aren't just trolls.

I don't know what they are, but seriously, double and triple digit post posters some of them having joined several years ago, apparently using their accounts for nothing else than calling critics trolls. Yeah right, not a shill account at all.

Yeah, because a "AAA" game like Skyrim needs shills on small niche forums. Give me a fucking break. It could be the worst turd of all time and a few people praising it on the Codex wouldn't make a blip on the sales radar.

What you said is possibly one of the most retarded things ever said on this forum, and that's saying something.

 

[Peter]

I'm also still finding archery difficult, even after 11 hours. I've always been good at intuitively hitting targets with arrows and grenades in other games, but in Skyrim I can literally use all my arrows trying to snipe one guy. The arrows just fly in a really strange way and you can't see where they land.

I thought I was the only one. I think the problem is that they've lessened arrow-drop a lot, so shots that would hit in other game (including past TES games) end up going over their intended targets. The arrows also seem to be going a bit higher than the crosshair indicates, as lining up a headshot means that the arrow will miss. :/

 

[Gord]

Who's butthurt here?

I'm not the one making tons of posts to argue in favor of Bethesda latest AAA release or to ad hominem those who disagree with its MAJESTICNESS.

And by the way, I enjoyed Risen, Mask of the Betrayer, Arcanum, VTM: Bloodlines and many other games released after 2000 so you're just another cretin for having resorted to such a cheap strike.

So far the ad hominem arguments seem to come mostly from people bashing the game (the majority of whom haven't even played it, of course).
Like the Codex favourite, calling someone a newfag. Very , indeed.

However I've a hard time understanding what's your problem exactly? So far the oppinion of those you accuse of trolling/being idiots seems to be that the game is indeed much better than expected but far from perfect.
They definitely do a better job in proving their point than you (or Skyway).
I've certainly not seen any of the borderline-retarded fanboys you get over at the Bethesda forums.

Protip: For a more substantial negative review of the game look e.g. at sea's blog entry or Crooked Bee's post.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

yeah so are the chicks in the game hot or not, anyone get hitched yet

oh yeah also tell me about the 'wind' that interviews talk about, is it a tangible weather effect

also keep arguing that's good stuff

 

[Syril]

I'm getting a 'good for $20 hack-n-slash dungeon crawler' type of vibe here.

Proper would be ' Year later GOTY edition with 6 dlcs and all bugs fixed good for $20 hack-n-slash dungeon crawler open world hiking'

 

[Hamster]

Forgive me brothers, for i have sinned I bought Skyrim.

The problem is, retail version sold here is steam based and steam now runs at 6 kb/s and says it will take 6 hours to download updates.

 

[hoopy]

Jesus, how is it possible that a sneak attack with a sword doesn't instakill all humanoids? Kind of puts a damper on my stealth mission when some guy takes at most 25 % damage from my backstab. Stealthy characters should be glass cannons who get wrecked in single combat but can put a blade or arrow through your throat before you know what's up.

Oh wait, that's too complicated for Skyrim. There are no classes and nothing to distinguish one character from another.

Could you take two seconds to look at the perks?

Perks basically are classes. Some of them are pretty dumb, like reduced falling damage and extra gold in chests, but most are a mix of either damage/speed bonuses or extra attack types and abilities. You want your glass cannon? There's a perk which gives you 15x damage when sneak-attacking. Is that not enough for you, or are you upset you have to level up a bit to get it?

It makes no sense for a first person action RPG to prevent you from cutting somebody's throat because he's higher level than you. And yes, I did get the 15x damage perk, but most enemies still don't die immediately.

 

[Mortmal]

Then theres a lot , really a lot of hypocrisy around, i mean just go on steam and see what people in rpgcodex group are playing , all the afternoon i may add, such torment they must endure.
Make a satisfaction poll if you dare, once people have played it.But no omg skyrim being rpgcodex game of the year or second best game likely after darksouls, the outrage!

People don't have to love a game to play it. It's like with books, if you are a big reader like myself, then by the time you're just 20 it's almost impossible to find a book that blows you away any more. It doesn't mean I stop reading books altogether once I realize they don't they live up to some incredibly high standards. So long as they're more entertaining than watching Grey's Anatomy with my GF, it's very likely I'll still finish a book that's just decent, but not great.

In all seriousness though, if you only played great video games you quite honestly wouldn't play a whole lot, at least that's my guess. All my favourite games are still from the 90s, yet I still find myself picking up new video games to this day. None of them blow me away, but there are a few that I've actually enjoyed enough to not only play from start to finish, but to pick up again at a later date for a second play through.

You don't have to be a hypocrite for playing a game you don't love. (Hope I didn't misunderstand your point.)

I logged on steam this morning, i checked what people were playing : skyrim i am checking at 12pm the same people are still on it, that means they are enthralled by it, you dont skip your usual activities for a mediocre game.If it was average or a good for 20$ hack and slash they would have stopped after a few hours, and indeed go watch grey anatomy or something like that.
Myself i just took a few break to eat and do some laundry.But i am big fan of the 3D roguelike that arena and daggerfall were and absolutely loved morrowind.

 

[Roguey]

If by smartened up you mean instahealth regen and quest compass among other things lawl

The heal spell in KOTOR was an instahealth regen. And your force juice always regenerated to full just in time for the next fight. As for the quest compass, I don't remember there being one. I turned all the plot helper crap off and never noticed its absence.

But this was what I was talking about (going in order of kotor versus DA):
1 race versus 3 (incline).
3 classes (plus 3 jedi classes) versus 3 classes (plus 12 specializations, 4 per class) ('bout the same)
party of 3 versus party of 4 (incline)
8 skills versus 8 ('bout the same)
19 feat lines (50-55 total) none have attribute prerequisites because Bioware thought that planning out your character build in advance was too difficult for console players versus 26 feat lines (104 total) and all have attribute prerequisites (incline)
41 force spells versus 84 spells (incline)
Annoying timesink space shooter minigame random encounters with absolutely no benefits versus handplaced "random" encounters (incline)

Not to mention that combat in DA:O is definitely more difficult with more fights that caused me reloads and tactic/party member changes, whereas KOTOR is one of the easiest awesome-button games of all time with only two good fights (both against Mandalorians; I'll give props to whoever decided that if they were going to talk them up in dialogues then they better deliver in-game). Superior quest design too (See: VD's review). The only thing KOTOR does better than DA:O is combat pacing: In the former, trash mobs take seconds to kill and bosses take... maybe a minute at absolute most, whereas in the latter trash mobs can take a minute or more and bosses even longer. I think Bioware took the "too easy" criticisms to heart and decided to solve that problem by making everything take longer to kill (thus giving them more time to hurt you). Not a good solution.

I still consider BG2 to be very good DnD PC port (mainly due to it being a proper DnD adventure and quests were quite good and character-class dependent) and plan to replay it.

There are a lot of DnD enthusiasts who would object to calling it a "proper" adventure, but this involves a bunch of stuff about the overabundance of magic loot, and the kitchen sink approach to questing/encounter design, but I don't particularly care about these things so I'll leave it at that.

Actually it becomes linear only by the end. And DAO is all linear and dumbed down and has shit combat and character system but you see Risen is shit because it didn't have millions of dollars poured into hype even though it's quite like Gothic which is of course praised on the Codex because it's an old game.

I'm pretty sure all the choices you can make in Risen happen in the first chapter. After that, you're on rails with not much say about what to do. DA:O also provides character options and combat variety that Risen doesn't (not much, but still definitely more).

Codex GOTY 2009 says otherwise. The majority of Codex loved the fuck out of it. And then DAO stopped being cool because to keep getting KKKs you need to bitch at big studios. And Risen became true MAJESTIC.

http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=38358 40% is not a majority.

In Skyrim you can easily twitch LMB until shit dies. In Divinity 2 you also have to dodge a lot and can't just kill everyone at once. In Skyrim you have ultrafast mana regen so you can almost permaheal yourself with any kind of character and armour gives no penalties whatsoever.

Dodging in Div2 seems worthless because enemies don't have any good tells and it's clunky as fuck having to first press left/right then hit the spacebar. Combat is pretty much just charge, flail at them, then use a potion/wait for the health regen if you're playing melee, shoot a couple of times and constantly jump backwards if you're ranged, or just run around spamming magic missile/aoes. Divinity 2's mana regen is also pretty fast, especially the more points you dump into Int, and it's not like you'll ever be at a loss for mana potions anyway.

And yes quests. In Divinity 2 each quest had some character to it, it wasn't the constant retarded shit of Skyrim "here's a sword/shield/ingredient - deliver it to my father/mother/fiance, you'll get shitty 10 coins for doing this and no XP because you get levels only for running into the wall"

Taking your word for it.

Div2 combat may be very flawed but it's still eons above the horrible shit of Skyrim.

Still not convinced.

 

[Metro]

Why do you guys even bother arguing with Skyway?

 

[Metro]

I logged on steam this morning, i checked what people were playing : skyrim i am checking at 12pm the same people are still on it, that means they are enthralled by it, you dont skip your usual activities for a mediocre game.If it was average or a good for 20$ hack and slash they would have stopped after a few hours, and indeed go watch grey anatomy or something like that.

Buddy of mine has 2,800 hours logged into BF: Bad Company 2 -- doesn't mean I'd enjoy playing it.

 

[crufty]

Man I Have been sniping people with my bow like crazy. Level 5 - 10.

I hit most of the time. I always sneak.

It's pretty fun. Could be deeper here and there. Miss the attributes Haven't done the main quest yet.

Was hiking simulatoring between towns when I saw a wooly mammoth carcass. Hmm. Interesting. What killed it ? Well, the bear that starts attacking me might have had a hand. Suddenly this hunter guy joins in, at which point the bear mauls the hunter pretty good. I backup and start plugging the bear with arrows. Bear kills the hunter and runs at me. Crap! I've backed up against a rock cropping. No time to switch weapons so as the bear strikes I shoot. It dies, but so did I.

I like the skill perks.

 

[Mortmal]

If by smartened up you mean instahealth regen and quest compass among other things lawl

The heal spell in KOTOR was an instahealth regen. And your force juice always regenerated to full just in time for the next fight. As for the quest compass, I don't remember there being one. I turned all the plot helper crap off and never noticed its absence.

But this was what I was talking about (going in order of kotor versus DA):
1 race versus 3 (incline).
3 classes (plus 3 jedi classes) versus 3 classes (plus 12 specializations, 4 per class) ('bout the same)
party of 3 versus party of 4 (incline)
8 skills versus 8 ('bout the same)
19 feat lines (50-55 total) none have attribute prerequisites because Bioware thought that planning out your character build in advance was too difficult for console players versus 26 feat lines (104 total) and all have attribute prerequisites (incline)
41 force spells versus 84 spells (incline)
Annoying timesink space shooter minigame random encounters with absolutely no benefits versus handplaced "random" encounters (incline)

Not to mention that combat in DA:O is definitely more difficult with more fights that caused me reloads and tactic/party member changes, whereas KOTOR is one of the easiest awesome-button games of all time with only two good fights (both against Mandalorians; I'll give props to whoever decided that if they were going to talk them up in dialogues then they better deliver in-game). Superior quest design too (See: VD's review). The only thing KOTOR does better than DA:O is combat pacing: In the former, trash mobs take seconds to kill and bosses take... maybe a minute at absolute most, whereas in the latter trash mobs can take a minute or more and bosses even longer. I think Bioware took the "too easy" criticisms to heart and decided to solve that problem by making everything take longer to kill (thus giving them more time to hurt you). Not a good solution.

I still consider BG2 to be very good DnD PC port (mainly due to it being a proper DnD adventure and quests were quite good and character-class dependent) and plan to replay it.

There are a lot of DnD enthusiasts who would object to calling it a "proper" adventure, but this involves a bunch of stuff about the overabundance of magic loot, and the kitchen sink approach to questing/encounter design, but I don't particularly care about these things so I'll leave it at that.

Actually it becomes linear only by the end. And DAO is all linear and dumbed down and has shit combat and character system but you see Risen is shit because it didn't have millions of dollars poured into hype even though it's quite like Gothic which is of course praised on the Codex because it's an old game.

I'm pretty sure all the choices you can make in Risen happen in the first chapter. After that, you're on rails with not much say about what to do. DA:O also provides character options and combat variety that Risen doesn't (not much, but still definitely more).

Codex GOTY 2009 says otherwise. The majority of Codex loved the fuck out of it. And then DAO stopped being cool because to keep getting KKKs you need to bitch at big studios. And Risen became true MAJESTIC.

http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=38358 40% is not a majority.

In Skyrim you can easily twitch LMB until shit dies. In Divinity 2 you also have to dodge a lot and can't just kill everyone at once. In Skyrim you have ultrafast mana regen so you can almost permaheal yourself with any kind of character and armour gives no penalties whatsoever.

Dodging in Div2 seems worthless because enemies don't have any good tells and it's clunky as fuck having to first press left/right then hit the spacebar. Combat is pretty much just charge, flail at them, then use a potion/wait for the health regen if you're playing melee, shoot a couple of times and constantly jump backwards if you're ranged, or just run around spamming magic missile/aoes. Divinity 2's mana regen is also pretty fast, especially the more points you dump into Int, and it's not like you'll ever be at a loss for mana potions anyway.

And yes quests. In Divinity 2 each quest had some character to it, it wasn't the constant retarded shit of Skyrim "here's a sword/shield/ingredient - deliver it to my father/mother/fiance, you'll get shitty 10 coins for doing this and no XP because you get levels only for running into the wall"

Taking your word for it.

Div2 combat may be very flawed but it's still eons above the horrible shit of Skyrim.

Still not convinced.

You misinterpret this poll, its a competition between titles of 2009 , its 40% of codexers prefering DAO over all other titles, KOTC included. At release if you asked here if they enjoyed dao you had over 50% positive.
Divinity 2 combat superior to skyrim ? they are both as primitive,you slash a bit and parry uses a few spells, i find divinity 2 being worse with the constant jumping attacks, it was never a challenge for me and was quickly boring .But you know what i dont remember many 3D rpgs doing better combats, dark souls , witcher 2 thats all.
Double standards again for bethesda games, flaws that are apparent in every other similar games become major and unforgivable: You can cut the throat to someone higher level ? my god its the same in every other rpgs...sneak doesnt instakill ? Its the same everywhere.The monsters and bandits stronghold are too close from town.. same in 99% of the games since the 80's, only games doing it right daggerfall, darklands.Id like too to see supply lines , merchant caravans, a realistic economy, X3 the space sim do it , but no rpg developper is doing it .

 

[Mangoose]

The thing is that the quality level of DAO is almost bait and switch. For several of the origins (both the Dwarf origins at least), the gameplay/plot/even some choices are pretty good. It's when you get 1/3-1/2 through the game, to the Derp Roads and the Werewolf areas when the encounter design drops to shit and then so does writing and everything else.

So I'm curious when that poll was done.