Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

[Steezus]

So yesterday I killed the last boss after reading how some people complained how unfair he was (somebody mentioned teleporting, what? lmao) and I feel like some of yall are just one step removed from those retardo easy mode journalists. How is he unfair? Dude pummels your as at first, yes. He should do that, it's the final boss. Then you learn how to effectively counter his moves according to the phases he is in and he becomes very managable, yet tough. This is easily one of the best final boss fights From has ever done.

I honestly wonder if the seperate phases are subconsciously fucking with people to the point where some just start complaining for no real reason.

 

[toro]

So yesterday I killed the last boss after reading how some people complained how unfair he was (somebody mentioned teleporting, what? lmao) and I feel like some of yall are just one step removed from those retardo easy mode journalists. How is he unfair? Dude pummels your as at first, yes. He should do that, it's the final boss. Then you learn how to effectively counter his moves according to the phases he is in and he becomes very managable, yet tough. This is easily one of the best final boss fights From has ever done.

I honestly wonder if the seperate phases are subconsciously fucking with people to the point where some just start complaining for no real reason.

It's a psyop.

 

[Steezus]

It's a psyop.

Idk if you're joking, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's triggering people. In concept it's nothing unlike other Souls/Bloodborne bosses. Gehrman, Orphan and others all go through 3, 4 phases, but you're fighting against one health bar unlike the 3 or 4 health bars in Sekiro. It feels like you have to endure more when in reality it's the same, just divided into clear stages.

Or I'm totally off and the people who complain about the last boss also hate Orphan of Kos and Ludwig, which to me, are some of the best bosses the studio ever created.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Haven't played much. Busy with other life shit and games, but I managed to play a bit this morning, reached the Chained Ogre.

Already defeated it and only died once (or twice if you count resurrection a death), but the fight reminded me why I usually find From's combat since Bloodborne kinda bullshit.

So the first time I died it was because he dropped kicked me. The thing is when he started the drop kick, I dodged to position myself in this right side, after which while he was in the middle of the fucking air he rotated 90º or more to be able to hit me.
I resurrected, performed a deathblow, second life bar.
When that last life bar was somewhere in the middle he does a lunging grab attack. I swear I had dodged it, my character was some 1-2 meters away from him when he was about to touch the ground. But the moment he did touch the ground, my character was teleported below him and he killed me...

Second time I beat him, but I played it so safe it was pretty boring.
Another thing buged me a lot in that part was the fact that up until then the level design was very good. But once at that point of the level you are forced to fight him. There's no alternate route, no hiding place to get the drop on him, nothing.
The stealth is definitely not as good as in Tenchu. It's really that shallow AAA stealth system of hide in the bush, crouch to become pretty much silent, enemies that can't see you past 20 meters or can't hear their comrade throats being slashed open a couple of feet from them.
And even the combat until now has been just, deflect, deflect, attack, red kanji dodge, attack, deflect...

What I am trying to say is, I am just not feeling the appeal of this game, but then again I realize I haven't played it much. So is it even worth for me to go on?

 

[Rivmusique]

https://www.pcgamer.com/i-beat-seki...m&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0#comment-jump

Which of you is writing for PC Gamer?

 

[Wunderbar]

What mostly buged me in that part was the fact that the level design up until that point was very good. But in that part of the level you are forced to fight him. There's no alternate route, no hiding place to get the drop on him, nothing.

It was done in order to force players to go to Hirata estate and search for flamethrower prothetic.

 

[Multidirectional]

What I am trying to say is, I am just not feeling the appeal of this game, but then again I realize I haven't played it much. So is it even worth for me to go on?

Certainly not if you're expecting a stealth game.

 

[Jasede]

Swordsaint down! What a fight!
After getting jealous of Vaati first-trying phase 3... I also first tried it! I used all my grass and rice and such though, and it was down to my last pellet. I had nothing left when he finally died. He only did the lightning thing once.

If you wanna say it doesn't count because I used items you can piss off. >_>

 

[Hassar]

What are yall's thoughts on Kuro's Charm?

Is it too much that mis-timed deflections cost HP? Is is that a fair handicap to have over the player? O'Rin of the Water is kicking my ass with her awkward attack pattern and timing.

There's a really neat trick for O'Rin on a charmless one.

Spoiler

run away and just fight Corrupted Monk instead

This game really missed a trick with it's too frequent Idol and teleporting from the start. With the grapple, seems to me there was lots of potential for unlocking shortcuts by opening windows or cutting down branches etc. to create new grapple points. Like Ashina Castle, you could just have that one Idol at the gates then remove the two on the way to the top but have both floors (Antechamber, Dojo) have a window you open from the inside, as well as something that lets you grapple straight up there from the rooftops near the Gate/stairs after you went the long way round the side for the first time. I feel like getting those neat shortcuts that lets you use the same "base" checkpoint to progress through multiple "stages" makes you feel how the world connects much more than just having checkpoint every 5 minutes, and this From game definitely has the least of those (none?).

So yesterday I killed the last boss after reading how some people complained how unfair he was (somebody mentioned teleporting, what? lmao) and I feel like some of yall are just one step removed from those retardo easy mode journalists. How is he unfair? Dude pummels your as at first, yes. He should do that, it's the final boss. Then you learn how to effectively counter his moves according to the phases he is in and he becomes very managable, yet tough. This is easily one of the best final boss fights From has ever done.

I honestly wonder if the seperate phases are subconsciously fucking with people to the point where some just start complaining for no real reason.

It's a psyop.

Idk if you're joking, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's triggering people. In concept it's nothing unlike other Souls/Bloodborne bosses. Gehrman, Orphan and others all go through 3, 4 phases, but you're fighting against one health bar unlike the 3 or 4 health bars in Sekiro. It feels like you have to endure more when in reality it's the same, just divided into clear stages.

Or I'm totally off and the people who complain about the last boss also hate Orphan of Kos and Ludwig, which to me, are some of the best bosses the studio ever created.

Yeah, you’re probably right - I think soMe players get psyched out or psych themselves out too easily. None of From’s games are “hard” - it’s not like you are playing an entirely skill-based roguelike with permanent death. What From usually focuses on is challenge in the form of adapting to game mechanics. How many people who were used to barreling through enemies in God of War but conplained that Dark Souls was too “hard” because that would get you killed? Probably a lot. Kind of like how the players who were scared of dying in Dark Souls didn’t get good until they overcame that to come to terms with the risk in favor of exploring and trying new stuff.

Sekiro presents a challenge but if you put together the themes, the gameplay approach should make sense - (1) you’re called a wolf, but you’re alone with no companions - so you are a lone wolf - kind of hints at the idea that you should be picking off most enemies one by one in the most lethal way possible (the character literally plunges his sword through enemies’ throats just like a wolf tears out men’s throats); (2) you’re a shinobi so you aren’t really meant to go barreling through the levels like a demigod - usually taking an indirect course gives you the best ways to avoid groups and find items; and (3) the game basically tells you that you kill enemies not by beating them in honorable combat, but by outperforming them in skills - so, just like a shinobi or lone wolf, your focus is not on how strong the enemy appears to be, but how you can separate them from their “pack/tribe”, make them lose their balance, and slaughter them in a corner somewhere.

TL;DR - I think some of these players who complain never got into the flow of other From games, where looking at the boss’ hp Bar is more about seeing their phases but the focus should be on reading their moves and looking for openings. In this game, the screen literally gives you a bright red dot to say “look! Keep playing like that and you get a reward!”

I’m enjoying the game more than I thought I would but then again, I always played glass canon Dark Souls characters (generally pure int or faith builds with quirky setups) so maybe the protagonist’s style speaks to me: I kind of like butchering a bandit in front of his friends, deflecting the arrow that some other guy shoots and then starting a turn that turns into a whirlwind of death which carves his fingers off before he dies, and then using my prosthetic whip to get back to the rooftops and run away - I just wish more enemies reacted to their dead comrades in a more dramatic way - would be nice to see someone wet their pants or become terrified more often.

 

[v1rus]

Just wanna toss my two cents in the best boss discussion - for me its a tie between daddy owl and supergrandpa. Both of those fight are amazing in their own rights, and both of them require you to manup and gitgud, while not feeling cheap (or at least, they didnt feel cheap to me)

 

[Ivan]

Sekiro is a fantastic title that boldly that sees FromSoftware diverting from the Soulsborne formula. I like the idea of locking meaningful character upgrades behind bosses and not really something that can be grinded out for. The combat loop reminds me a lot of a brawler, thinking specifically of God Hand or Revengeance, where the action is tighter and victory is usually stringent on you knowing when to strike versus evade.

Also, I was very pleased with the exploration in Sekiro. While I feel Dark Souls had an ever expanding world, this felt like it's locations had a lot of nooks and crannies that needed to be unearthed via the grappling hook or swimming. Hell, I'm positive I completely missed some of the secret areas.

I'm coming away from this supremely satisfied and happy that FromSoft has produced another critically acclaimed title that doesn't recycle the same Soulsborne formula.


Uninstalled.

 

[Durandal]

How would you feel about complaints of lacking weapon variety if you could use the spear/axe/Sabimaru as much as you'd like without having to worry about Spirit Emblems, and if you weren't restricted to have only one Combat Art equipped at a time?

 

[Puteo]

When that last life bar was somewhere in the middle he does a lunging grab attack. I swear I had dodged it, my character was some 1-2 meters away from him when he was about to touch the ground. But the moment he did touch the ground, my character was teleported below him and he killed me...

In spite of what the tutorial says, you cannot dodge that attack. You can only out range it or, again, contrary to what the tutorial says, jump over it.

Jumping over it and jumping on his head will deal massive posture damage but again, that is supposed to be the counter for sweep attacks, wtf from?

 

[Steezus]

How would you feel about complaints of lacking weapon variety if you could use the spear/axe/Sabimaru as much as you'd like without having to worry about Spirit Emblems, and if you weren't restricted to have only one Combat Art equipped at a time?

That point is kinda moot, because the game isn't designed around movesets. In Souls and Bloodborne, the focus was on commiting to attacks based on the weapon's moveset and speed. This isn't the case in Sekiro. What you need to do to be successful at combat is knowing when to switch between offense and defense, while staying engaged in combat. The actual moveset is almost entirely irrelevant.
Introducing more weapons might be something for a sequel, but that just invites the inherent brokenness of Souls, where certain gear absolutely trivializes combat. Take the upgraded spear with the charge move for example. It shreds Snake Eyes and the dojo samurai mini bosses because they don't have the ability to effectively counter it.

One of the things I enjoy about Sekiro is that you generally can't bruteforce bosses and actually need to improve as a player.

 

[toro]

How would you feel about complaints of lacking weapon variety if you could use the spear/axe/Sabimaru as much as you'd like without having to worry about Spirit Emblems, and if you weren't restricted to have only one Combat Art equipped at a time?

That point is kinda moot, because the game isn't designed around movesets. In Souls and Bloodborne, the focus was on commiting to attacks based on the weapon's moveset and speed. This isn't the case in Sekiro. What you need to do to be successful at combat is knowing when to switch between offense and defense, while staying engaged in combat. The actual moveset is almost entirely irrelevant.

I agree. Boss fights in Sekiro are glorified QTE sequences.

One of the things I enjoy about Sekiro is that you generally can't bruteforce bosses and actually need to improve as a player.

Yeah. You improve so much that you need to relearn everything once you reach the next boss.

 

[toro]

Haven't played much. Busy with other life shit and games, but I managed to play a bit this morning, reached the Chained Ogre.

Already defeated it and only died once (or twice if you count resurrection a death), but the fight reminded me why I usually find From's combat since Bloodborne kinda bullshit.

So the first time I died it was because he dropped kicked me. The thing is when he started the drop kick, I dodged to position myself in this right side, after which while he was in the middle of the fucking air he rotated 90º or more to be able to hit me.
I resurrected, performed a deathblow, second life bar.
When that last life bar was somewhere in the middle he does a lunging grab attack. I swear I had dodged it, my character was some 1-2 meters away from him when he was about to touch the ground. But the moment he did touch the ground, my character was teleported below him and he killed me...

Second time I beat him, but I played it so safe it was pretty boring.
Another thing buged me a lot in that part was the fact that up until then the level design was very good. But once at that point of the level you are forced to fight him. There's no alternate route, no hiding place to get the drop on him, nothing.
The stealth is definitely not as good as in Tenchu. It's really that shallow AAA stealth system of hide in the bush, crouch to become pretty much silent, enemies that can't see you past 20 meters or can't hear their comrade throats being slashed open a couple of feet from them.
And even the combat until now has been just, deflect, deflect, attack, red kanji dodge, attack, deflect...

What I am trying to say is, I am just not feeling the appeal of this game, but then again I realize I haven't played it much. So is it even worth for me to go on?

Chained Ogre is a failure as a boss. His hitboxes, grabbing and homing attack are broken. He is just an sad relic from DS3 or BB.

The good part is that you can kill him fast and move on. He is not representative for the rest of the bosses or the game.

Edit: Also you'll meet him like 2 more times. I think.

 

[toro]

There is a Sekiro tournament at the moment: https://www.twitch.tv/mcrapt0r

 

[Adon]

Chained Ogre's biggest difficulty is the arena you fight him in. Otherwise it's as simple as whittling down his health with 2 or 3 attacks and then jumping back. He'll either go for the grab or throw his back on the floor like a gigantic turtle. At least this was the case for me in the 2nd Chained Ogre.

Speaking of rehashed boss fights. Finished the 2nd fight with Owl.

 

[Durandal]

I agree. Boss fights in Sekiro are glorified QTE sequences.

How would having more offensive options help against this? Wouldn't it still be a case of using the attack string that does the most optimal damage before the boss is allowed to attack you again and you have to press the correct button to avoid his attack? How is that any different from other action games?

Yeah. You improve so much that you need to relearn everything once you reach the next boss.

Would better and more consistent telegraphing alleviate this?


Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-I9301I met Tapatalk

 

[toro]

I agree. Boss fights in Sekiro are glorified QTE sequences.

How would having more offensive options help against this? Wouldn't it still be a case of using the attack string that does the most optimal damage before the boss is allowed to attack you again and you have to press the correct button to avoid his attack? How is that any different from other action games?

Yeah. You improve so much that you need to relearn everything once you reach the next boss.

Would better and more consistent telegraphing alleviate this?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-I9301I met Tapatalk

Dude. I was just trolling.

How can you respond to a retard which claims that movesets are irrelevant in Sekiro !?

Or that you cannot bruteforce bosses when the best fights in the game are designed around the concept of unrelentless aggressiveness.

 

[majorsoccer]

another generic soulless demon souls copy & paste,japanese are shit people

 

[Filthy Sauce]

My favorite boss is Gyoubu Oniwa (horse guy). I use to think From Software showcased this guy because he's the first boss in the game... But I think they did just because he's a zany, high energy spectacle... Other bosses are definitely better mechanic-wise, but I find them somewhat dull in presentation and design.

When I think of sekiro years from now, I'll remember Gyoubu Oniwa and the guardian ape.

 

[Steezus]

My most memorable boss is definitely gonna be Genichiro. Dude pushes your shit in in the prologue, continues to push your shit in during his real boss fight until you eke out a win, only for him to buttfuck you with his third surprise phase. You spend so much time fighting this guy and get so good at killing him, that you just mop the floor with his ass in 20 seconds by the time you fight him the third time.

Mechanics wise, he also just super fun to fight.

 

[Steezus]

How can you respond to a retard which claims that movesets are irrelevant in Sekiro !?

By and large, they are. Almost every attack has about the same wind-up, speed, reach and radius. They are some exceptions like the slower sweep after a dodge or the charge-up attacks, but those are very situational. Usually you just mash R1 until the game signals you that it's time to stpp doing so. It's not like in Souls where you have to consider which way your weapon is gonna swing, whether you're better off using R1s or R2s or the speed of your actual swing. Sekiro doesn't even have an R2 attack, but on the other hand it gives you the ability to cancel attacks.

Or that you cannot bruteforce bosses when the best fights in the game are designed around the concept of unrelentless aggressiveness.

lmao, what?

Unrelentless aggressiveness is going to kill you 100% of the time, because bosses are going to poise through your constant barrage of attacks and shish kebab your ass. What you probably mean, but are too much of a moron to put in words, is that you need to stay engaged in a fight and not give your enemy the time to recover posture. And halting posture recovery is done by a mix of attacking, deflecting, counter-jumping and using tools.

 

[Cromwell]

My favorite moment in the whole game until now was when I realized you can puppeteer one ninja to fight against his buttfuck buddy in the dojo before facing owl. Of course that happiness left me when facing owl.