Shadowrun Shadowrun Returns - Dead Man's Switch Original Campaign

[stony3k]

Bilbo Baggins

 

[Loriac]

I think they are an incompetent team, technically speaking. Whilst they have the original shadowrun designer, and so in theory have created a game that is fairly faithful to the pnp design (albeit simplified greatly), they simply don't seem to understand the repercussions of their implementation design decisions.

The inability to save for example points to extremely poor design at the start (and probably a lack of understanding of PC games in general). Whilst saves can be retrofitted onto the basic platform into new content (by using global variables that are passed between scenes to hold key save values), its extremely clunky and liable to break the game over time (save bloating) never mind being a pain in the neck to design around. This, prima facie, looks like a schoolboy error, and one wonders why they apparently didn't even consider saves a thing that a PC player might want until an advanced stage of coding.

The art looks good in the game, but it seems that they're using it as an excuse as to why they blew through the budget. The art and perspective used should have had very little impact on the game design itself, and can't be used as an excuse for such limited functionality and UI. Its a decent tablet game that somehow ended up on the PC, a platform that highlights its glaring deficiences.

SRR ends up being a game that could have been so much more, but was botched by a team that simply isn't very capable.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I wouldn't attribute it to lack of competence, more lack of will. But in the end the result is the same.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I think they are an incompetent team, technically speaking. Whilst they have the original shadowrun designer, and so in theory have created a game that is fairly faithful to the pnp design (albeit simplified greatly), they simply don't seem to understand the repercussions of their implementation design decisions.

The inability to save for example points to extremely poor design at the start (and probably a lack of understanding of PC games in general). Whilst saves can be retrofitted onto the basic platform into new content (by using global variables that are passed between scenes to hold key save values), its extremely clunky and liable to break the game over time (save bloating) never mind being a pain in the neck to design around. This, prima facie, looks like a schoolboy error, and one wonders why they apparently didn't even consider saves a thing that a PC player might want until an advanced stage of coding.

The art looks good in the game, but it seems that they're using it as an excuse as to why they blew through the budget. The art and perspective used should have had very little impact on the game design itself, and can't be used as an excuse for such limited functionality and UI. Its a decent tablet game that somehow ended up on the PC, a platform that highlights its glaring deficiences.

SRR ends up being a game that could have been so much more, but was botched by a team that simply isn't very capable.

They are a mobile/tablet developer in over their heads, nothing good will come out of the editor while they are trying to push DLC out of the door to stay afloat. So i expect that the editor shortcoming will remain for the foreseeable future, as well as the general gameplay mechanics of the original campaign the game shipped with.

 

[almondblight]

Its a decent tablet game that somehow ended up on the PC, a platform that highlights its glaring deficiences.

I disagree. Things like the save issues are probably an even bigger problem for tablets, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's why there's been the delay between the PC and tablet versions.

 

[crufty]

re saves:

cout << g_game;

 

[DalekFlay]

It's not a simple game because of tablets, it's a simple game because it was made in one year on a tight budget.

 

[slackerwizrd]

They are a mobile/tablet developer in over their heads, nothing good will come out of the editor while they are trying to push DLC out of the door to stay afloat. So i expect that the editor shortcoming will remain for the foreseeable future, as well as the general gameplay mechanics of the original campaign the game shipped with.

Is this why HBS is looking into the ability to add saves? It's all just a charade? They're actually just trying to turn a profit by throwing DLCs while they're profitable?! How dare they!

 

[Overboard]

Is this why HBS is looking into the ability to add saves?

noobtip: They've been 'looking into' saves for a very long time now, and guess what has come of that?

Edgy newfag detected.

 

[Junmarko]

Has anyone played some of the community mods yet? Curious to see if any of them are worth the time...

 

[slackerwizrd]

noobtip: They've been 'looking into' saves for a very long time now, and guess what has come of that?

Edgy newfag detected.

I knew I should have added some dumb emoticon or meme. It doesn't matter if it was last week, months ago, or 10 years ago. The sarcastic comment was less about the saves/core issues and more about the company trying to stay afloat by pushing out DLC.

Has anyone played some of the community mods yet? Curious to see if any of them are worth the time...

Modules, here.

 

[Hamster]

Finished it a few days ago. Bros, i am a bit ashamed and feel like a hypocrite, but it was awesome. All the criticism of this game is obviously true, it is somewhat shallow and too easy, but i still had one of the best gaming expiriences of the last few years. SR managed to capture that feeling of immersion (real immersion, not bullshit next gen one) when your imagination runs wild and game world seems so much bigger than it actually is, that i remember from playing classic rpg's as a kid.

I didn't know much about Shadowrun and didn't really follow the kickstarter so i wasn't aware that this game is being made by creator of original Shadowrun pnp, but i wasn't surpised when i learned that because i could feel the love and attention to the setting while playing. As a first of expected kickstarted rpg's to arrive, this game to me proves that even with all the financial and time constraints, the ability of the author to follow his vision that Kickstarter grants is priceless.

I know that this is very subjective opinion, but i suggest you look at it like this: even if SR is not your thing, when developers can follow their own unique vision instead of some universal mainstream formula the resulting increase in game style diversity means you have a greater chance to one day see a game that suits your personal taste.

TLDR:

 

[almondblight]

Has anyone played some of the community mods yet? Curious to see if any of them are worth the time...

The only one I've finished is Lost Lamb, which I'd say is as good as the OC (worse in some ways, better in others). I've played 20 - 30 mins (been too burned out by the OC to play much longer) of Jacked Up, Little Town, and Shadowrun Unlimited, all of which look like they'll be better.

There's a decent review thread on the main forums here (these are just the posts with reviews).

 

[Infinitron]

I finally finished this too. It wasn't very good.

Here are the game's three main problems, in ascending order of importance.

1) Cosmetic choices without consequences. Stupid, but forgivable.

2) Combat is too easy (except the final level, which is nice). Could have been nice in a Fallout sort of way if it had more gory animations, though.

3) The linearity, and the overall structuring of the game into bite-sized half hour vignettes. This is the game's biggest problem IMO. It's an immersion killer which makes the entire world seem artificial. If you're not going to give me tough combat, or interesting choices, you'd damn well better give me a great, immersive introduction to your unique setting.

The game's writing was good, but it just didn't help that much when straitjacketed into that kind of restrictive game structure. What a shame.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

You forgot the shitty save system

and how the plot goes after the second half.

But tbh, if i compare it to fallout or arcanum...its total shit...but I am comparing it to biowhore popamoles...so quite good actually.

 

[Surf Solar]

Why do you think the plot goes retarded? Yes, it's a different theme than the first halve, but the ongoings in the second half are very prominent in the sourcebooks..

 

[Infinitron]

You forgot the shitty save system

Those three things I mentioned mean there's not much need for saves.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

@Infinitron
yes that is true, the game is so fucking linear and piss easy and lacks any real CnC that saves are not that essential, but that doesn't excuse the shitty save system which is a real bitch when making custom modules.

@Surf Solar
Well I am not familiar with the SRR settings at all, its just that the shift was very jarring... an analogy would be sipping wine, then suddenly chugging rum.

 

[DeepOcean]

Why do you think the plot goes retarded? Yes, it's a different theme than the first halve, but the ongoings in the second half are very prominent in the sourcebooks..

Yes, the insect spirits are part of the sourcebooks, but they aren't the problem, but the problem was more of : Okay, lets track a serial murder for or friend and nice 100.000 nuyen to LETS SAVE SEATTLE FROM BUGS, HELP IMMORTAL ELVES by doing a run on a hive because... a friend said so.

 

[Hamster]

Why do you think the plot goes retarded? Yes, it's a different theme than the first halve, but the ongoings in the second half are very prominent in the sourcebooks..

I guessed as much, but the bug part of plotline was indeed delivered very, very clumsily. Despite that I still liked the overall plot and how dead man's switch ended.

 

[slackerwizrd]

I finally finished this too. It wasn't very good.

1) Cosmetic choices without consequences. Stupid, but forgivable.

3) The linearity, and the overall structuring of the game into bite-sized half hour vignettes. This is the game's biggest problem IMO. It's an immersion killer which makes the entire world seem artificial. If you're not going to give me tough combat, or interesting choices, you'd damn well better give me a great, immersive introduction to your unique setting.

It would be interesting to see if they tackle 1) and 3) in Berlin, effectively. They've stated intent for more a flexible, main story arc w/ factions, but I suspect this may be more like Skyrim's banal quest and faction system. Hopefully not, but we'll see.

 

[Galdred]

Spoiler

Yes, the insect spirits are part of the sourcebooks, but they aren't the problem, but the problem was more of : Okay, lets track a serial murder for or friend and nice 100.000 nuyen to LETS SAVE SEATTLE FROM BUGS, HELP IMMORTAL ELVES by doing a run on a hive because... a friend said so.

I thought it was a non spoiler thread. That said, the complain is completely on target, it goes against the idea of shadowrunners being mercenaries who go on tough jobs because they need to pay their expenses, instead of your usual do gooders

Spoiler

It's not like you cannot guess you won't be paid much for your efforts

.
That said, I had a great time with the game too, despite its huge flaws.
Difficulty was not too much of an issue, if you play some kind of hybrid, or worse, a physical adept, it is not that easy, but the other two issues, and the save system are very annoing.
The save system forces you to reserve long stretch of time to play a session, especially with some UGC who have very big scenes.

 

[DeepOcean]

Spoiler

Yes, the insect spirits are part of the sourcebooks, but they aren't the problem, but the problem was more of : Okay, lets track a serial murder for or friend and nice 100.000 nuyen to LETS SAVE SEATTLE FROM BUGS, HELP IMMORTAL ELVES by doing a run on a hive because... a friend said so.

I thought it was a non spoiler thread.That said, the complain is completely on target, it goes against the idea of shadowrunners being mercenaries who go on tough jobs because they need to pay their expenses, instead of your usual do gooders

Man, at this point all the threads kinda merged on my mind. I agree with you, it even appeared as if a DnD fantasy writer was writing a Shadowrun story.

Spoiler

When I was going in the last mission I was: Wait, this is insane. Fuck Sam, fuck 100.000. I will not enter a hive with just other 3 idiots with bug spray. When this was my problem to solve? You fag immortal elves, fuck you and fuck Seattle, that is your problem. But you know... epic + choice - consequence = absurd. There were a few Shadowrun short stories that dealt with the whole insect spirits on a more sane and less epic, absurd way.

 

[Hamster]

Man, at this point all the threads kinda merged on my mind. I agree with you, it even appeared as if a DnD fantasy writer was writing a Shadowrun story.

Spoiler

When I was going in the last mission I was: Wait, this is insane. Fuck Sam, fuck 100.000. I will not enter a hive with just other 3 idiots with bug spray. When this was my problem to solve? You fag immortal elves, fuck you and fuck Seattle, that is your problem. But you know... epic + choice - consequence = absurd. There were a few Shadowrun short stories that dealt with the whole insect spirits on a more sane and less epic, absurd way.

Spoiler

You mean fuck 1.000.000 and fuck an incredibly rich and powerfull guy who promised to kill you if you don't do the job?

 

[Excidium]

I'd kinda expect him to kill me anyway. They should have done that, imagine the butthurt