Awor Szurkrarz
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2009
- Messages
- 21,899
How about a minimum intelligence level to prevent min-maxing int?
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Incline SHELTER update thread
- Thread starter shihonage
- Start date
zenbitz
Scholar
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2009
- Messages
- 295
shihonage said:
INORITE? Plus, you have to decide if you have generic "loot" graphics or have each individual doo dad hand crafted in 3D and rendered in 2D or some classes of items...
But the "clickable" difficulty explains why in most late-90s era 2D games stuff tends to get dropped in "unclickable" or "barely clickable" locations (Z-ordering bugs). But hey, free pixel hunt!
Having dumb dialog is funny and cute and super fallout-y... but yeah. I mean really, how could it be worth the effort? Maybe if you wrote a nice little "dumb dialog" generator.
Awor Szurkrarz said:
The idea is to replace intelligence-driven dialogue with dialogue driven by other ... uh... actually... I don't think it's been done in exactly this way before, so you'll just have to see for yourself when it's actually working.
zenbitz said:
Scaled down versions of inventory item images may work.
Indeed... I sort of figured the whole "what is the mouse over" issue, except I didn't take into account transparent walls... and now I am integrating ground items into existing renderer, which seem like a minor thing, except it ain't.
In retrospect there's a lot of UGLY SHIT in the code, as it was a learning experience. In the sequel there will be a lot of cleanup done.
Yeah, I'm rather painfully aware of how many luxuries I can't afford. If the gun is on the wall, it better fire by the end of play, otherwise I just wasted my time buying a gun and hanging it on the goddamn wall
zenbitz said:
This is how I handle dropping items: when you drop it, the immediate map area around the player is scanned for an empty cell. The item is dropped onto that cell.
Technically this means you can drop 8 items at one location, but it ensures a certain spacing. Also, the scan area radius could be enlarged from +-1 to +-2. Of course with that enlargement LOS checks will be necessary, funny as it may be (you don't want to drop an item behind a wall that's 1-cell thin, cutting off player's access to it).
Shelter dev.update (02/10/2010)
Items can now be dropped from inventory to the ground, and "used" (but not fired) without being in inventory, but I haven't finished the part where they get picked up. Sounds simple and trivial, doesn't it.
When the items are finished, then I get started on real doors ! Doors are important for controlling passability in a number of places. Far as the game's logic goes, each door will be tied to its "owner", and the skills needed to hack it will be compared against those of the owner (dead or alive, doesn't matter). Having "owners" doesn't make a ton of sense, but it is convenient for putting down multiple doors in a single area.
After the doors, I'll start migrating NPC/location/quest content from external document into the game. It will result in adjustments, for it is a learning path.
In general work has been slow lately due to my equivalent of Lumbergh at work putting pressure on me about my equivalent of TPS reports. It is very hard to work at a software company and then work on software at home. It sucks all the enthusiasm out of you.
This need for generating enthusiasm is why we've been making Shelter videos. They're goalposts signifying progress and reminding us of why we're making the game. We were planning to make the next one when we have original graphics, but I just may release one when we have solid gameplay first. There hasn't been a decent video out in over a year.
Items can now be dropped from inventory to the ground, and "used" (but not fired) without being in inventory, but I haven't finished the part where they get picked up. Sounds simple and trivial, doesn't it.
When the items are finished, then I get started on real doors ! Doors are important for controlling passability in a number of places. Far as the game's logic goes, each door will be tied to its "owner", and the skills needed to hack it will be compared against those of the owner (dead or alive, doesn't matter). Having "owners" doesn't make a ton of sense, but it is convenient for putting down multiple doors in a single area.
After the doors, I'll start migrating NPC/location/quest content from external document into the game. It will result in adjustments, for it is a learning path.
In general work has been slow lately due to my equivalent of Lumbergh at work putting pressure on me about my equivalent of TPS reports. It is very hard to work at a software company and then work on software at home. It sucks all the enthusiasm out of you.
This need for generating enthusiasm is why we've been making Shelter videos. They're goalposts signifying progress and reminding us of why we're making the game. We were planning to make the next one when we have original graphics, but I just may release one when we have solid gameplay first. There hasn't been a decent video out in over a year.
Building an engine takes sooooo long.... When will we see the game finished?shihonage said:
Seriously, I appreciate your reporting. I'm sure it must feel depressing at some point when working on that kind of large project: you're planning on implementing cool new features and you still have your hands down in what seems trivial. Just keep up the good work. And keep sharing your thoughts. It's quite interesting. No joke.
Thank you, sir.
The ironic part is that some of the "cool" features were put in earlier than the little stuff such as ground items. For instance the inertia system with the shadow silhouette effect, and the PwRT combat system, and the knocking-people-down-with-inertia, has been in for a while...
The ironic part is that some of the "cool" features were put in earlier than the little stuff such as ground items. For instance the inertia system with the shadow silhouette effect, and the PwRT combat system, and the knocking-people-down-with-inertia, has been in for a while...
Items can now be picked up, for better or worse. This week has been a perfect storm - two different family events, manager at work bullshit, and dental visit.
Next - doors.
Then, the content-implementing fun starts. The point we've been working toward since, er, at least 2006. Although right now I'm too beat to fully comprehend it. Technically, though, Shelter was born in January 2000.
Proof: http://insane-worlds.8m.com/ (News page, first post) . Yes, that's our cooky website of that era, complete with two early screenshots.
Next - doors.
Then, the content-implementing fun starts. The point we've been working toward since, er, at least 2006. Although right now I'm too beat to fully comprehend it. Technically, though, Shelter was born in January 2000.
Proof: http://insane-worlds.8m.com/ (News page, first post) . Yes, that's our cooky website of that era, complete with two early screenshots.
I finished handling of picking up items from the floor when player is behind walls (that become transparent so you can see him & items at his feet). Inventory auto-opens if it was closed. It works almost perfectly. Also, found the right approach to serialization of doors. That is the only progress made this week.
Friday is deadline for "evaluation of my work performance" that happens every 6 months. Manager continues to terrorize me. Hopefully things will pick up after the "evaluation"... unless he gives me another assignment like the one I just completed. These assignments have no real use, he just comes up with them because they give him the sense that he matters.
Good day.
Friday is deadline for "evaluation of my work performance" that happens every 6 months. Manager continues to terrorize me. Hopefully things will pick up after the "evaluation"... unless he gives me another assignment like the one I just completed. These assignments have no real use, he just comes up with them because they give him the sense that he matters.
Good day.
Doors now open as you walk into them (and stop being obstructive), and are examinable. However, closing them requires a different handler. Half of it is written, and half is not.
Right now, by default, when you try to INTERACT with a door, you talk to its owner. It may or may not be a good idea. If the owner is dead, you get "There's no response."
Doors can be opened by walking into them (no security), talking to the owner through the door, using "Science" on them, or by carrying security items matching the door's requirements. Some of this functionality is still in progress. The latter example can be interpreted as either
a) standard security cards
b) as someone looking at you through a camera, spotting the said item (such as a specific armor), and letting you in.
Last week I guessed the manager would give me another pointless assignment. He gave me 4. Yet I persist.
Right now, by default, when you try to INTERACT with a door, you talk to its owner. It may or may not be a good idea. If the owner is dead, you get "There's no response."
Doors can be opened by walking into them (no security), talking to the owner through the door, using "Science" on them, or by carrying security items matching the door's requirements. Some of this functionality is still in progress. The latter example can be interpreted as either
a) standard security cards
b) as someone looking at you through a camera, spotting the said item (such as a specific armor), and letting you in.
Last week I guessed the manager would give me another pointless assignment. He gave me 4. Yet I persist.
Big Nose George
Educated
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2009
- Messages
- 666
Same movie, different personality type.
My manager's manager is even worse, though. Yesterday he accused me of trying to be "like a sysadmin in the 90s", trying to be "irreplaceable", while I "could easily be replaced".
All I ever do is what my manager tells me to, nothing more. Fun times.
My manager's manager is even worse, though. Yesterday he accused me of trying to be "like a sysadmin in the 90s", trying to be "irreplaceable", while I "could easily be replaced".
All I ever do is what my manager tells me to, nothing more. Fun times.
Today my Russian boss yelled in my face if I'm too hardcore ("slishkom krutoi, chto li ?") to update a specific set of shortcuts in time.
Combined with his pointing out that I'm "not irreplaceable" yesterday, my days at this job are likely numbered. Either he'll fire me soon, or I'll quit.
This will result in
good news: Shelter development will speed up
bad news: I may be finishing the game from a homeless shelter
HAHA
JUST KIDDING
IM SUCH A FUNNY FELLA
(shoots self)
Combined with his pointing out that I'm "not irreplaceable" yesterday, my days at this job are likely numbered. Either he'll fire me soon, or I'll quit.
This will result in
good news: Shelter development will speed up
bad news: I may be finishing the game from a homeless shelter
HAHA
JUST KIDDING
IM SUCH A FUNNY FELLA
(shoots self)
Thanks man 
Doors now close, and I started transferring the first area from the design document into the game. The area is called "Hillside Penitentiary".
Our goal is to make the game fully functional before starting to seriously replace the graphics, which is why we are using "Minimal Area Design", meant to control passability and game flow, without any cosmetics.
For instance, the cell where the player starts, has no bed. Bed is cosmetic, and so are the "angle smoothers" between perpendicular walls. The door, through which you talk to the guard, isn't. Neither are the walls themselves, as they are meant to contain the Player.
Someone asked earlier if we planned to have line of sight. Well, here it is. "True" line of sight, in an isometric tile-based environment, is limiting. It hides too much of what you're supposed to see, and creates ugly artifacts. So instead, we use one more liberal with the concept of "line", while still hiding areas currently inaccessible.
The layout of Hilside Penitentiary is being created through the editor. LOS and other effects are disabled in the editor. It is a quite handy contraption, that automatically finds "similar" tiles to the one you're pointing at, and it has copy/paste and undo functions, as well. Those category columns are manually clickable, too.
Let the interesting times begin !
Our goal is to make the game fully functional before starting to seriously replace the graphics, which is why we are using "Minimal Area Design", meant to control passability and game flow, without any cosmetics.
For instance, the cell where the player starts, has no bed. Bed is cosmetic, and so are the "angle smoothers" between perpendicular walls. The door, through which you talk to the guard, isn't. Neither are the walls themselves, as they are meant to contain the Player.
Someone asked earlier if we planned to have line of sight. Well, here it is. "True" line of sight, in an isometric tile-based environment, is limiting. It hides too much of what you're supposed to see, and creates ugly artifacts. So instead, we use one more liberal with the concept of "line", while still hiding areas currently inaccessible.
The layout of Hilside Penitentiary is being created through the editor. LOS and other effects are disabled in the editor. It is a quite handy contraption, that automatically finds "similar" tiles to the one you're pointing at, and it has copy/paste and undo functions, as well. Those category columns are manually clickable, too.
Let the interesting times begin !
We have a document called "Shelter EVERYTHING", which contains the areas, NPCs and quests created thus far.
Last week I started moving the first area into the game, and immediately ran into the problem that keeps surfacing - the devastating amounts of information to keep track of.
Like transferring a book to film, the written text cannot be preserved 1:1 from a document into the actual game. So, I modify it on the fly, adjusting to what the engine allows.
But that means, I need to go back to the document and keep it up to date with these tiny microchanges - Every. Single. Fucking. Time.
...
So, last week was spent upgrading Zorlag (Shelter content compilation tool) so that it generates a plain-language report automatically.
The report looks like this (sans lulz):
When I add/remove an area in the game, its added/removed in the document AUTOMATICALLY. When I rename or displace an NPC, the document does that AUTOMATICALLY. When I alter quests... you get the point.
Clicking on NPC names in the report opens their BRAIN folder, where Zorlag now conveniently puts a .bat file which runs Shelter and plonks the Player directly next to the NPC - for testing.
NOW, I'll ACTUALLY be putting Hillside Penitentiary (and its inhabitants) into the game.
Stay tuned... into the Shelter channel.
Last week I started moving the first area into the game, and immediately ran into the problem that keeps surfacing - the devastating amounts of information to keep track of.
Like transferring a book to film, the written text cannot be preserved 1:1 from a document into the actual game. So, I modify it on the fly, adjusting to what the engine allows.
But that means, I need to go back to the document and keep it up to date with these tiny microchanges - Every. Single. Fucking. Time.
...
So, last week was spent upgrading Zorlag (Shelter content compilation tool) so that it generates a plain-language report automatically.
The report looks like this (sans lulz):
When I add/remove an area in the game, its added/removed in the document AUTOMATICALLY. When I rename or displace an NPC, the document does that AUTOMATICALLY. When I alter quests... you get the point.
Clicking on NPC names in the report opens their BRAIN folder, where Zorlag now conveniently puts a .bat file which runs Shelter and plonks the Player directly next to the NPC - for testing.
NOW, I'll ACTUALLY be putting Hillside Penitentiary (and its inhabitants) into the game.
Stay tuned... into the Shelter channel.
rpgcodexusername
Arcane
shihonage said:
Why are Russians so mean?
It's all Dostoevsky's fault.
Examining Fallout reveals a number of necessary mechanics that were otherwise taken for granted. One of them is having people "guard" places. This means, keeping YOU out. Using the passability+combat mechanics alone, this is very hard to control - the player may find a way to sneak past, Frogger-style, between patrolling guards, or even between their AI area scan intervals.
That's why in some key places Fallout used "dialogue aggro radius". When you are within a set distance of an NPC, you are forced into dialogue. At the end, you are pushed out of the aggro zone.
Similar was required for Hillside Penitentiary, where you ask a guard to see the Warden. Through Zorlag tying actions to dialogue, you are transported into the Warden's room, where you're NOW caught by his "dialogue aggro radius". You can ask him to return you to your cell, so you get teleported back.
Much functionality is still unrefined and missing, but the work is underway. Once Hillside Penitentiary becomes a playable place, it will serve as design template for other areas in Shelter.
Also, I believe I have found a way to bring back "NPCs surrendering to player" functionality with dignity. I.E. so that it doesn't ENTIRELY break the world.
That's why in some key places Fallout used "dialogue aggro radius". When you are within a set distance of an NPC, you are forced into dialogue. At the end, you are pushed out of the aggro zone.
Similar was required for Hillside Penitentiary, where you ask a guard to see the Warden. Through Zorlag tying actions to dialogue, you are transported into the Warden's room, where you're NOW caught by his "dialogue aggro radius". You can ask him to return you to your cell, so you get teleported back.
Much functionality is still unrefined and missing, but the work is underway. Once Hillside Penitentiary becomes a playable place, it will serve as design template for other areas in Shelter.
Also, I believe I have found a way to bring back "NPCs surrendering to player" functionality with dignity. I.E. so that it doesn't ENTIRELY break the world.
The first area is the slowest, as I am fixing glaring problems preventing ... gameplay. Last week on Shelter:
- Proper corpse management. Now you can walk over corpses, and there can be multiple corpses on a single map cell, without game slowdown.
- Only actors carrying security cards can pass through doors requiring them.
- "Surrendering" is now back in. The test area is "gen pop", where prisoners walk around. Eventually they get too close to the guards, the guards shoot them into submission. Then they loot them, but since prisoners have nothing, they shout "You're worthless !". I still don't know if this mechanic will stay in.
Zorlag broke while I am making quests for Warden. I'm trying to fix it, but its impossible to do from work as my manager randomly bugs me about some report I misfiled 2 weeks ago.
I plan to do more today, so this update is not complete, but I want to get over with it early so I can still fix Zorlag and make Warden's quests work.
The prison is meant to be a starting tutorial area like Temple of Trials, only shorter, more relevant, and less boring. Since it's hard to make the prison matter or have relevant C&C (prison is by definition something isolated from the outside world), I'm trying to make the player's stay in there as short as possible. Expanding prison universe is a waste of development time. There will be 2 paths to freedom. That's all.
- Proper corpse management. Now you can walk over corpses, and there can be multiple corpses on a single map cell, without game slowdown.
- Only actors carrying security cards can pass through doors requiring them.
- "Surrendering" is now back in. The test area is "gen pop", where prisoners walk around. Eventually they get too close to the guards, the guards shoot them into submission. Then they loot them, but since prisoners have nothing, they shout "You're worthless !". I still don't know if this mechanic will stay in.
Zorlag broke while I am making quests for Warden. I'm trying to fix it, but its impossible to do from work as my manager randomly bugs me about some report I misfiled 2 weeks ago.
I plan to do more today, so this update is not complete, but I want to get over with it early so I can still fix Zorlag and make Warden's quests work.
The prison is meant to be a starting tutorial area like Temple of Trials, only shorter, more relevant, and less boring. Since it's hard to make the prison matter or have relevant C&C (prison is by definition something isolated from the outside world), I'm trying to make the player's stay in there as short as possible. Expanding prison universe is a waste of development time. There will be 2 paths to freedom. That's all.
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