Shifting translation focus of Elminage 2 away from PSP and now it will be on NDS; here's why...

aweigh · Mar 30, 2016

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Siveon
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um. after spending weeks translating the items/spells/monsters/etc lists of elminage 2 for the psp version i then spent like 3 days straight trying to rebuilt the game's folder's back into an ISO. that part was "easy". However no matter what I do PPSSPP will not load the modified files in the game's ISO; and i have now leared it is due to the encryption Sony puts on the eboot.bin/boot.bin files in the games. They're hijacking my modified files and preventing them from loading.

After swearing a lil bit i said, fuck disssssssssssssssssssss hey isn't there an NDS versionnn??????????///

indeed there is. not only is there an NDS version but working with NDS roms is a fucking beautiful and glorious dream come true. The community has a tool called Tinke that has everything built into it you can load the NDS rom into it, extract any file and modify it and then import the file back into the rom and Tinke has a motherfucking button labeled.. "Rebuild Game ROM". OH MY GOD.

in literally less than 10 minutes i have produced already a beta translation for elminage 2, have a look:

Screenshot%202016-03-30%2017.32.13_zpsothwlxud.png~original

this literally took me less than 10 minutes. yes, i'm gonna have to do every single "list file" all over again but you know what, fuck it, because at least now i'm safe in the knowledge that whatever efforts i put into translating this game i will at the VERY LEAST be able to play it MYSELF at any moment and check the changes in-game whenever i want.

on PSP you have to utilize QuickBMS scripts to extract the files first and then import them back into the BINs then you have to rebuild the ISO from the game folders (easy) and apparently then you have to decrypt the boot/eboot.bins so the PSP allows it to load modified; and obviously it's not easy if it was i never would've moved on to the NDS version. it's a different fucking thing for every PSP game.

fuck psps. fuck fuck fuck sony. FUCKSWORD!!!!!!!! TO MEEEE

edit: if anyone feels like doing some data entry work helping with the .CSV lists (the 600 items list / the 100+ monsters list / the gigantic spell list / etc) there's not even a lot of need to actually translate anything since 90% of everything is taken from elminage 1, and i have all of that game's files extracted and gutted. For example 535 of those almost 600 items don't need translation only to look at the same itemcsv.bin file from elminage 1 and then write down the english name on top of the japanese text in the elminage 2 item file (the items are numbered so there's no room for error nor even a need to read).

i'm gonna do some graphical hacking on this one for the first time i'm going to use the elminage 1 english screens (status screen / inventory / etc) and "cut" the image from it and then paste it on top of the elminage 2 screen. (those screens/textures are all image files, obviously, and can be manipulated). even there then no need to translate anything just cut and paste. it will probably look really shitty cos i know jack shit about image editing but whatevs. this is more just to keep myself entertained than anything else.

seriously, Richard if you read this dude Tinke is the SHIT. it makes translating an NDS game just as "easy" as it is working with a PC game's files. easier even in some cases.

aweigh · Mar 31, 2016

GHOOOOOLEE shit is editing images harder than i imagined. jeeeeeeeeesusssssssssssssssss

well i can tell you right now re-using elminage 1's psp assets is way too much work as the psp's formats (gim/gmo) are unbelievably painful to work with; and even if i converted that shit into something workable like .png (there are actually two different tools made by romhacking/gbatemp community that do exactly that) then ok, let's assume i actually succesfully manipulate it in gimp/photoshop or whatever-- now i have to convert that to one of the nintendo ds's file formats and they use like 20 (.ncs/.ccg./.ncl/.gbmd/.gbma/and more) and edit the file to the nds standards of course and then replace the nds file with that or whatever.

ummm nah. i think i'll just translate the japanese text to english and when it comes time for the graphical menus i'm thinking i'll just learn how to edit the nintendo file formats and just paste a block of english text on top of the categories, heh.

like a big yellow STR on top of the kanji for potency haha

the difficulty in the image editing isn't really in the editing itself; just like with everything else related to consoles the difficulty is all the hoops you have to suffer through to be able to do something as simple as edit an image file. ffs wizardry empire 1 uses .png and .bmp right off the bat. and so does 2 of course. the imaginary translator would only need to like, just translate. nothing else. if all obstacles are removed it can become as passive as data entry work if you already have everything ready for editing.

anyway, i'm not gonna stop of course. the NDS community has made some incredible tools for hacking the roms. it's fucking amazing. they even have their own hex editor just for NDS roms. and my god the ease with wich you can extract a file out of an nds rom using tinke, modify it (be it an image or otherwise); then just cool-as-you-please import it back into the rom and click on a button that will generate a working rom with the changes applied for you in that very momeny: that's fucking mind-blowing.

the stuff i can do that is perfectly doable without a fluent japanese speaker to help me is:

- monsters
- spells
- items
- classes
- races
- genders
- alignments
- abilities
- skills
- attributes
- all of the battle text
- event text that occurs in dungeons (you pressed a switch / you've been ambushed / etc)
- "feedback text" + "battle text" " misc. text" (ex. Draco spotted a door! / inserting the english translations of all the dungeon names and the inns and shit in each city / your quest log / basically every piece of text that isn't being spoken to you)

what i'm trying to say is that it's not exactly a high priority all things considered; it'll be a miracle if i ever even finish what i've listed above let alone wrangle someone into translating the npc dialog (which is huuuge).

i just wanted to edit the graphics too, to learn a new skill so to speak but goddamn do those fuckers make it hard. also did i mention that even before the 1st of many file type conversions begins that you have to usually decompress this shit? lel

much more productive to spend my night translating the items. :D

EDIT: i tried following the nintendo ds graphical hacking tutorial 101 in gbatemp, which consists of changing the mario kart ds NINTENDO logo to GUARDIAN: i did it but i stopped halfway once i had the file open in gimp. i could've finished it if i wanted to but 1) elminage 2 doesn't use the same image types as mario kart ds, heh, so the tutorial was completely useless for me; and 2) it takes so much fucking time to do this stuff it's not as immediately gratifying as translating 50 monsters in 2 hours or so and then loading the game and mowing them down in english.

Siveon · Mar 31, 2016

I have both hacked so I don't caaaaaare

aweigh · Mar 31, 2016

and the thing is: whatever witchcraft iso hacking i would end up doing with the psp version chances are it wouldn't load on your real hardware; whereas ALL nds roms no matter how brutally hacked are so simple in design (that's a compliment) that it's a trivial matter tor re-ROM the files and they ALWAYS work.

and yes i'm including CFW'd PSPs. since you have to use different tools and different scripts to pray open the .BIN files in a psp game (each game is different!!!!) and you have to use the same extraction script in reverse to re-build the file structure into an ISO AND using a special iso tool... there's a lot of hacked/modded/translated/whatever psp iso's that do not boot on real hardware. primarily because you have to remove the psp encryption to even allow the game to load the translated/modified files.

none of that shit at all with the nds. tl;dr i have massive, MASSIVE respect for ps1/ps2/psp translators. the god awful tedious work they must have gone through to give us shit like the DQ5 english translation for ps2 and now recently 7th dragon 2020 on psp... my god, my GAWD11211!! i bitch and moan endlessly about hacking a pc game and pc games aren't "sealed off" in any way heh all the files are right there for you to mess up if you want. my brief experience translating the ps1 version of wiz-empire 1 basically scared me off forever from ps1/ps2 games :D

aweigh · Mar 31, 2016

i'm actually thinking that since now i know that i can really devote tons of energy into a DS game translation and _IT WILL WORK_; perhaps i should start with a small game first, the equivalent of wiz-empire 1 which is VERY small in scape-- i'm gonna browse through emu paradise's DS section right now and see what JP games are ripe for the taking.

edit: ah of course i will do a new fan-translation of ff4 on the ds! all the previous versions were highly innacurate.

psyhche

Dorarnae · Mar 31, 2016

elminage 2 on ds has more post game content anyway.

Siveon · Mar 31, 2016

aweigh said:
there's a lot of hacked/modded/translated/whatever psp iso's that do not boot on real hardware

Such as? Most of the more renown ones worked alright for me.

aweigh · Mar 31, 2016

well yeah cos to make a good, especially a RENOWNED released on psp requires a lot of dedication. what i was saying is basically it would take more effort from my part to make absolutely sure any sort of iso-hacking i did for a psp game worked on hard-ware. REAL fan translation groups care about that stuff deeply; i however would take every short cut possible and if it meant it only ran on PPSSPP wel.. yeah. You get the picture.

so all in all i'm very happy to have found the NDS romhacking community. i would have never bothered checking out the DS versions of the elminage games if i hadn't become so extremely frustrated with all of the hurdles psp translation has. i mean, it's a LOT to say that the tiny little bit of time i spent working on the ps1 version of wizardry empire 1 (which i dropped because it had half the available memory space for inputting english text than the PC version did); and that was waaaay, waaaaay easier and less convoluted than the 2 days or so i spent trying to make my rebuilt ISO of elminage 2 work on ppsspp and reflect all of the translated items/monsters/spells. once i read about the decryption stuff i was like practically googling 4 tabs all with variations on the string "Nintendo DS translation utility +tutorial", heh.

on ps1 all you need to do is extract the ps1 game disco contents, modify the files in whatever the hell you're using at that moment, then you use 2 super fast programs to make a patch that applies the modified files back into the game disc. it's tedious having to do it to play-test changes but it works. that crucial scenario i just described is not always guaranteed on psp. i'm not saying you can't, i'm saying it's not guaranteed. there are patching tools for psp as an alternative to rebuilding the iso again from the extracted game folders... but they're crap, basically, and all require decryption anyway.

aweigh · Mar 31, 2016

so what other good rpgs in need of translation are there for the DS? i honestly don't know

Siveon · Mar 31, 2016

I don't know about good but I can narrow the search a bit.

How about the DS version of Elminage Original? :D

aweigh · Mar 31, 2016

you know it did cross my mind. but if i'm gonna do something stupid like that i might as well translate the PC version.

it WOULD be easy. it's already translated. it would be only a matter of "data entry" work. which i don't want to do on a game that's already in english...

and unfortunately there's no way to do a bait-and-switch witht he psp files even if both versions use excel .CSV's for everything. guess what? psp version's .csv's are trapped inside .BIN files, sigh.

Mustawd · Mar 31, 2016

aweigh said:
fluent
Siveon
Courtier
H-K
Deuce Traveler
MrRichard999
Comte
Viata

um. after spending weeks translating the items/spells/monsters/etc lists of elminage 2 for the psp version i then spent like 3 days straight trying to rebuilt the game's folder's back into an ISO. that part was "easy". However no matter what I do PPSSPP will not load the modified files in the game's ISO; and i have now leared it is due to the encryption Sony puts on the eboot.bin/boot.bin files in the games. They're hijacking my modified files and preventing them from loading.

After swearing a lil bit i said, fuck disssssssssssssssssssss hey isn't there an NDS versionnn??????????///

indeed there is. not only is there an NDS version but working with NDS roms is a fucking beautiful and glorious dream come true. The community has a tool called Tinke that has everything built into it you can load the NDS rom into it, extract any file and modify it and then import the file back into the rom and Tinke has a motherfucking button labeled.. "Rebuild Game ROM". OH MY GOD.

in literally less than 10 minutes i have produced already a beta translation for elminage 2, have a look:

this literally took me less than 10 minutes. yes, i'm gonna have to do every single "list file" all over again but you know what, fuck it, because at least now i'm safe in the knowledge that whatever efforts i put into translating this game i will at the VERY LEAST be able to play it MYSELF at any moment and check the changes in-game whenever i want.

on PSP you have to utilize QuickBMS scripts to extract the files first and then import them back into the BINs then you have to rebuild the ISO from the game folders (easy) and apparently then you have to decrypt the boot/eboot.bins so the PSP allows it to load modified; and obviously it's not easy if it was i never would've moved on to the NDS version. it's a different fucking thing for every PSP game.

fuck psps. fuck fuck fuck sony. FUCKSWORD!!!!!!!! TO MEEEE

edit: if anyone feels like doing some data entry work helping with the .CSV lists (the 600 items list / the 100+ monsters list / the gigantic spell list / etc) there's not even a lot of need to actually translate anything since 90% of everything is taken from elminage 1, and i have all of that game's files extracted and gutted. For example 535 of those almost 600 items don't need translation only to look at the same itemcsv.bin file from elminage 1 and then write down the english name on top of the japanese text in the elminage 2 item file (the items are numbered so there's no room for error nor even a need to read).

i'm gonna do some graphical hacking on this one for the first time i'm going to use the elminage 1 english screens (status screen / inventory / etc) and "cut" the image from it and then paste it on top of the elminage 2 screen. (those screens/textures are all image files, obviously, and can be manipulated). even there then no need to translate anything just cut and paste. it will probably look really shitty cos i know jack shit about image editing but whatevs. this is more just to keep myself entertained than anything else.

seriously, Richard if you read this dude Tinke is the SHIT. it makes translating an NDS game just as "easy" as it is working with a PC game's files. easier even in some cases.

Why am I not on this list? This is relevant to my interests aweigh. WTF?

:rpgcodex:

aweigh · Mar 31, 2016

oh you are on a list now for sure

Dorarnae · Mar 31, 2016

wizardry asterisk?

aweigh · Mar 31, 2016

nah i haven't gotten around to that one yet; but guess what? i pried open the contents and it is 100% completely do-able as a translation project. very small game in scope; not that much npc dialog, not that much dungeon dialog either. honestly it's all just a matter of time and energy.

i also looked at wedge of life and that one is a big NO GO. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much npc dialog. there are reams of it. i have nothing personally against that it's just that who the fuck's gonna translate it.

deuxhero · Mar 31, 2016

Tinke seems like an interesting tool. Thanks for telling me about it.

Hmm, it fails to understand the formats in all the moon games I've tried (the two Metal Max games and a few others. Can get it working with some English games and games that have an English version) except one: The second Card Hero game (which I barely played). Can find the text files (they are literally .txt files), but between the way its laied out and my lack of familiarity with the game I have no idea what the context is for half of it. The interesting thing is there are folder for Korean and US script, though the files are blank or copied versions of the JP folder. Wasn't relased in English and doubt it had a Korean release.

aweigh · Mar 31, 2016

i just pointed it towards the elminage .nds and it worked. aren't the harvest moon games .nds too? i mean it's made specifically for nintendo ds roms.

elminage 2 is 100% jap.

aweigh · Mar 31, 2016

and the nintendo ds hex-editor (and much, much more) is called CrystalTile2. it's tile-viewing engine is imo the best i've ever seen. it even lets memory hack the rom you have opened by launching whatever nds emulator you configure to launch with it and you can romhack a slice of gameplay over and over perfect for stuff like checking to see if changing Y thing will produce the desired results in a specific scene/sequence.

aweigh · Mar 31, 2016

honestly the best thing about crystaltile2 is that it automatically loads in shift-jiss jap lol. i don't think i can ever go back to an editor that won't do that.