KickStarter Shroud of the Avatar - Lord British's Not-Ultima Online 2

[Maelflux]

Oddball was possible the most annoying fanboy on the (shudder) Shaker project as well. As soon as he starts hyping something, it's a good indication that it's somewhat shitty.

 

[Infinitron]

That "Ambrose Law" guy is a piece of work also.

 

[RK47]

'Take like minded people to go with you.'

 

[kris]

It is strange how they call people "trolls", despite being nothing like it. Like it is some sort of universal discredit button. Kind of like calling someone "a racist" in public media.

 

[kris]

And it's going to make it.

I don't care that much about things I don't like/prefer making it, not as long as the project I do like do.

 

[Charles-cgr]

He really needs to decide: Ultima X or UO2. Possibly choose one and keep the other as a future project. Trying to breed a hybrid as he is doing will almost certainly give birth to a monstrosity. Perhaps he indeed has a good, revolutionary vision but if that is the case he needs to describe it better. But it seems unlikely because it would be much clearer and he wouldn't have backpedaled on the 100% offline mode.

Like many kickstarters before it, he seems to want to build something for the sake of building (for many others, money was the motivation but I doubt it is the case here, given he alledgedly has plenty). Kickstarters should be about building on a vision, one that is already pretty much set in stone (with reasonable room for adaptations). Shaker suffered from this, as well as Thorvalla. Wildman actually had some direction. This one might be the first of its kind to succeed at the funding stage, but it could be setting itself up for much worse than a failed funding campaign. At least when those fail, it is done and over with.

It actually feels like not pledging is doing him a favor at this stage.

 

[Metro]

You guys are still laboring under the delusion that he gives a shit? He's making a WoW clone plain and simple. Nothing's going to change. He's got eight million dollars from some publisher who is dictating terms (not that he'd disagree). There is no 'vision' here, it's just a thinly veiled marketing campaign and means to milk some preorder and charity money from suckers. This guy has been making shitty MMOs and social games the last decade. That's all your going to get from him. It's over.

 

[Charles-cgr]

You guys are still laboring under the delusion that he gives a shit? He's making a WoW clone plain and simple. Nothing's going to change. He's got eight million dollars from some publisher who is dictating terms (not that he'd disagree). There is no 'vision' here, it's just a thinly veiled marketing campaign and means to milk some preorder and charity money from suckers. This guy has been making shitty MMOs and social games the last decade. That's all your going to get from him. It's over.

Yet he changes his mind on offline mode (so either the hypothetical publisher is flexible on this and isn't really dictating terms or there isn't one). And if he wants to make a UO2 or UOWoW why all this effort to appeal to the offline gaming crowd? Surely he knows he has a wide enough UO fanbase to successfully announce a UO reboot.

I think his problem is that he wants to revolutionize for the sake of revolutionizing (and not just build for the sake of building as I stated previously). He repeatedly says he's done it several times before and wants to do it again. I don't think greed has anything to do with this (the greedy clone proven products) but an ego trip is potentially even more damaging than greed.

 

[Infinitron]

You guys are still laboring under the delusion that he gives a shit? He's making a WoW clone plain and simple. Nothing's going to change. He's got eight million dollars from some publisher who is dictating terms (not that he'd disagree). There is no 'vision' here, it's just a thinly veiled marketing campaign and means to milk some preorder and charity money from suckers. This guy has been making shitty MMOs and social games the last decade. That's all your going to get from him. It's over.

I don't think that cash is from a publisher. It's from investors.

 

[Metro]

Yet he changes his mind on offline mode (so either the hypothetical publisher is flexible on this and isn't really dictating terms or there isn't one). And if he wants to make a UO2 or UOWoW why all this effort to appeal to the offline gaming crowd? Surely he knows he has a wide enough UO fanbase to successfully announce a UO reboot.

From everything I'm reading it doesn't seem like he's changing his mind. They keep pushing the online aspect constantly. As far as why appeal to them, do you really think he'd just tell people: yeah this isn't the game for you? Greed and ego aside that's just nothing any intelligent businessman would do.

I don't think that cash is from a publisher. It's from investors.

Perhaps not although I'm sure said investors invested into something that was defined fairly clearly by him, i.e., something that would heavy online/social components and nothing anywhere close to U7.

 

[Saduj]

My favorite Kickstarter comments on this one are the ones where old school UO players are begging for non-consensual PVP. Its like having foxes begging a farmer to let them live in his chicken coop. What part of of "I can't bleed these people for money if you keep killing their characters, causing them to quit" do these people not understand?

Also, the comment from Garriott that started off "It is my hope that all the folks who think they really just want to play offline will play online....." was really telling. Think they want to play offline? His fans really deserve him.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Another one of these "I know better than you what you actually want" developers.

Funny thing is that he probably doesn't even understand why people are opposed to it. It's probably mindblowing for him that such a great idea is disliked by anyone.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

It's a multiplayer game with optional "persistent elements".

It's an MMO.

 

[Kirtai]

nor interfering with your feeling of "I am the chosen hero".

If being a 'chosen hero' is what he thinks single player RPGs are about then thank god he has no interest in trying to make one. Is this a subtle dig at single player RPGs?

Someone should force him to play some RPGs where you're not the hero. I'm sure we can think of some

It's probably mindblowing for him that such an great idea is disliked by anyone.

That's actually pretty common among people who're insulated by money or fame or power. High up company execs and the wealthy are often like this.

 

[DwarvenFood]

Yet he changes his mind on offline mode (so either the hypothetical publisher is flexible on this and isn't really dictating terms or there isn't one). And if he wants to make a UO2 or UOWoW why all this effort to appeal to the offline gaming crowd? Surely he knows he has a wide enough UO fanbase to successfully announce a UO reboot.

From everything I'm reading it doesn't seem like he's changing his mind. They keep pushing the online aspect constantly. As far as why appeal to them, do you really think he'd just tell people: yeah this isn't the game for you? Greed and ego aside that's just nothing any intelligent businessman would do.

I don't think that cash is from a publisher. It's from investors.

Perhaps not although I'm sure said investors invested into something that was defined fairly clearly by him, i.e., something that would heavy online/social components and nothing anywhere close to U7.

Is that investor money related to this Ultima project, or we're you guys discussing that Wing Commander-like game ? Does Garriot really already have a couple of mil ? Why does he even need kickstarter then ? (oh wait.. free extra moneys..)

 

[Alex]

You guys are still laboring under the delusion that he gives a shit? He's making a WoW clone plain and simple. Nothing's going to change. He's got eight million dollars from some publisher who is dictating terms (not that he'd disagree). There is no 'vision' here, it's just a thinly veiled marketing campaign and means to milk some preorder and charity money from suckers. This guy has been making shitty MMOs and social games the last decade. That's all your going to get from him. It's over.

Yet he changes his mind on offline mode (so either the hypothetical publisher is flexible on this and isn't really dictating terms or there isn't one). And if he wants to make a UO2 or UOWoW why all this effort to appeal to the offline gaming crowd? Surely he knows he has a wide enough UO fanbase to successfully announce a UO reboot.

I think his problem is that he wants to revolutionize for the sake of revolutionizing (and not just build for the sake of building as I stated previously). He repeatedly says he's done it several times before and wants to do it again. I don't think greed has anything to do with this (the greedy clone proven products) but an ego trip is potentially even more damaging than greed.

I dunno, Charles. I would love to see LB make another Ultima 7, maybe more than anyone else here. But at the same time, I don't think it would be any good if his heart wasn't into it. Garriot was bitten by the MMO bug a long time ago, and I figure he has this whole time tried to make his vision of how multiplayer and single player should fit together a reality. Maybe it isn't any good to anyone else, but I think it is what the man is passionate about. I mean, if he tried to make a good single player game, or even another Ultima Online, his heart would probably not be on it. It would probably end up being no good.

 

[80Maxwell08]

"experience similar trolls in Larry Reloaded & Shaker"
The only trolls on Shaker were the ones who made Loot Drop think they could get away with that worthless pitch. Everyone else was just thinking rationally.

 

[Akarnir]

Wait, that game is actually being published by someone? So it's not an independent project?

 

[octavius]

It is strange how they call people "trolls", despite being nothing like it. Like it is some sort of universal discredit button. Kind of like calling someone "a racist" in public media.

Someone disagrees with a white asshole: "troll"
Someone disagrees with a non-white asshole: "racist"

 

[Jaesun]

I wonder what Gariott's "Investors" think of this Kickstarter lack of overwhelming success or interest? And Toment heads it's way to 3 Million...

 

[Delterius]

In my experience, Griefing hurts the game's 'economy' as in, it may prevent new players from getting into the game. Whereas the in-game economy can actually benefit from griefing or even the potential of griefing.

Nothing stimulates the economy like liquidating assets by killing some people here and there.

Well, I didn't know Ultima Online was such chaos. The UO-likes I used to play had entire guilds and alliances dedicated to maintaining peace and making money out of it, as well as guaranteeing the exploitation of such and such sources of income (a given cave or whatever) in the name of said guilds and 24/7. The non PvP servers of said games used to have the worse economies by far, with escalating inflation and stagnation.

 

[Infinitron]

This went up with fortuitous timing: Paul Neurath of Looking Glass fame tried for years to get EA to let him make an Ultima

 

[taxalot]

Isn't this the Ultima Underworld 3 whose script got leaked ?

 

[tuluse]

I wonder what Gariott's "Investors" think of this Kickstarter lack of overwhelming success or interest? And Toment heads it's way to 3 Million...

It's going to pretty easily break 1 million. Hard to be upset with a free million dollars.

Here's my question. How is Gariott going to make an MMO for 8 million dollars? 38 Studios couldn't make one with 75 million, and Bioware spent an estimated 200-400 million on TOR.

I guess there's a lot of money to be saved by having it look terrible, but can he really do it with 1/10 of the budget.

 

[Infinitron]

Isn't this the Ultima Underworld 3 whose script got leaked ?

No, that Underworld 3 was an Origin game, I believe. Not Looking Glass.

It's going to pretty easily break 1 million. Hard to be upset with a free million dollars.

Here's my question. How is Gariott going to make an MMO for 8 million dollars? 38 Studios couldn't make one with 75 million, and Bioware spent an estimated 200-400 million on TOR.

I guess there's a lot of money to be saved by having it look terrible, but can he really do it with 1/10 of the budget.

Well, it's not an MMO.
It's something even more complex and untested than an MMO.