Volourn said:Infinity engine is no more turn based than Diablo. "Not that I dislike it, but it doesn't feature turns: all actions, including attacks and casting have a speed factor which determines the frequency with which the action occurs, just like in Diablo.
The false impression you get of it progressing "without player input" - no player input means turn based? So FF XII is the most turn based game EVER! - is due to the fact that you can pause the game and assign tasks."
Yes, they do. It's real time but it does feature turns. 6 second rounds just like pnp D&D. It's not ol fashion turn base but it's also not real real time either.
Go ahead. Click your mouse button 20n times during those 6 seconds and see how many spells or attacks your character gets.
Overweight Manatee said:Bullshit. Click your mouse button 20 times during 6 seconds and see if a character in Diablo attacks any faster then simply holding the button down. The only difference between Diablo and infinity engine games is that in the IE games all actions can only have durations measured in whole fractions of 6 seconds while Diablo games aren't limited to those breakpoints.
Stop lies, start truth, etc.
With that logic, they should have just used their OWN. Does DS really have that much name recognition, and is it GOOD recognition?KalosKagathos said:Because they can do whatever the hell they want with it, as there's not much canon to consider?
What are you talking about? Diablo *IS* limited to breakpoints. Ever trying seeing what that extra +10% IAS does for you? Answer: Often, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, because unless it crosses a breakpoint, it does jack.Overweight Manatee said:Bullshit. Click your mouse button 20 times during 6 seconds and see if a character in Diablo attacks any faster then simply holding the button down. The only difference between Diablo and infinity engine games is that in the IE games all actions can only have durations measured in whole fractions of 6 seconds while Diablo games aren't limited to those breakpoints.
Volourn said:Diablo attack speed is alrgely based on animation only while BIO style combat games tend to be based on 6 second rules and are strictly based on CHARACTER skill/level.
ie. In NWN, level 1 fighters attack 1ce epr round while 6th level fighters attack 2 per round. Period.
It's round based which is exactly what D&D pnp combat is based on. Dumbass.
Norfleet said:What are you talking about? Diablo *IS* limited to breakpoints. Ever trying seeing what that extra +10% IAS does for you? Answer: Often, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, because unless it crosses a breakpoint, it does jack.Overweight Manatee said:Bullshit. Click your mouse button 20 times during 6 seconds and see if a character in Diablo attacks any faster then simply holding the button down. The only difference between Diablo and infinity engine games is that in the IE games all actions can only have durations measured in whole fractions of 6 seconds while Diablo games aren't limited to those breakpoints.
denizsi said:Down with this retarded herp-a-derpin over turns. The word you are looking for is "rounds" in the long established gaming terminology of our beloved RPGs. IE games have rounds where actions are based around this concept where Diablo only has animation length as a limiting factor, without adherence to any other time standard.
denizsi said:And how does that invalidate what I'm saying? That you can attack as soon as the spell is cast only means that the animation length is in perfect sync with round length.
denizsi said:For instance, with many weapons, if you order your character to attack and then click somewhere to move him/her while (s)he is attacking, (s)he will wait a moment or two *after* the attack animation is completed and *before* actually following your order, because the round for the attack hasn't actually ended yet.
Start paying attention.
Combat has never been something Obsidian's been great at.
they'll be unable to utilize their talents
Dungeon Siege doesn't exactly have massive brand-recognition
why the hell is a storyfag company risking their hard-won fortunes on a hack 'n slash?
Overweight Manatee said:denizsi said:And how does that invalidate what I'm saying? That you can attack as soon as the spell is cast only means that the animation length is in perfect sync with round length.
No. Characters never wait for rounds to end. Rounds are 6 seconds. If the characters went by rounds it would be never be possible to move or attack after casting, you would have to wait until 6 seconds after you begun casting the spell to move. But in IE you can in fact make a character do arbitrarily many actions within any 6 second period, so that is clearly not the case. The only thing 'round based' is spell casting, which can only be done once every 6 seconds. Everything else has nothing to do with rounds.
denizsi said:For instance, with many weapons, if you order your character to attack and then click somewhere to move him/her while (s)he is attacking, (s)he will wait a moment or two *after* the attack animation is completed and *before* actually following your order, because the round for the attack hasn't actually ended yet.
No. Just no. At most there is a .1 second delay between you ordering someone and them moving there. If what you said was true the delay would average 3 seconds. It just does not work that way. IE does not keep track of individual character rounds at all. Characters DO sometimes get stuck for a half-second moving out of combat, but that is only because they will not move while they are doing their 'hurt' animation whenever they are hit by an attack. You may actually be able to break this animation and move immediately if you click again, I can't remember.
denizsi said:No I wasn't talking about hit animations at all. I know a round is 6 seconds in DnD but I always thought it to be shorter/faster in IE games. After all, I don't ever remember seeing a 6 seconds wait between the continuing attacks of any character that attacked only once per round. Likewise, spells with durability always lasted shorter than the rounds and turns in descriptions when translated into real time as per DnD rules. Was this not the case?
Overweight Manatee said:denizsi said:No I wasn't talking about hit animations at all. I know a round is 6 seconds in DnD but I always thought it to be shorter/faster in IE games. After all, I don't ever remember seeing a 6 seconds wait between the continuing attacks of any character that attacked only once per round. Likewise, spells with durability always lasted shorter than the rounds and turns in descriptions when translated into real time as per DnD rules. Was this not the case?
A character with 1 attack per round will make a minimum of 3 or 4 attack animations per round, this was done so characters don't look stupid making only 1 attack animation every 6 seconds (and this is what I think you are referring to when the ADHD kids complain about combat being slow and attacks doing nothing). If you turn on the attack rolls display you will see a character with 1 attack only gets 1 attack roll, the others are duds.
Also, if you have set the game to run faster then the default of 30 FPS, the game literally runs faster and combat rounds are shortened. 60 FPS will give you 3 seconds per round and everything will be 2x as quick as in D&D. What I said before about being able to break the round system by casting spells and attacking or moving during the same round is still relevant, though.
Further complicating the situation with regards to how long spells last, absolute times such as 'minutes' and 'seconds' refer to in-game minutes and seconds, not real time. In-game time runs faster then real time. I'm not entirely sure what the scale is, suffice it to say that neither did the developers because they are inconsistent themselves with it. e.g. Mage armor says it lasts 8 hours but it actually lasts 50 minutes in real time @ 30 FPS. On the other hand, Stoneskin says it lasts 12 hours but actually lasts 60 minutes. Some of the spells that last 1 minute per level actually last 1 minute per level while others are shortened by 50 or 75%. Everything is a bit haphazard.
oscar said:Combat has never been something Obsidian's been great at. So why they're trying to make a dungeon crawler with a new engine (coding also being one of their weaknesses) in a ultra-generic setting where they'll be unable to utilize their talents (writing and plot) is anyone's guess.
Oh, you can certainly prefer whatever you want. Just stop making up new expressions to make things you like sound better than they actually are. Phase-based is OK. Semi-turn-based? Complete nonsense.Radisshu said:And @KalosKAthagagfalos, uh, I never said it wasn't a big difference from real TB combat, dumbass, I just said that I prefer semi turn-based stuff to real time. Is that not allowed on newfag codex?
KalosKagathos said:Radisshu said:And @KalosKAthagagfalos, uh, I never said it wasn't a big difference from real TB combat, dumbass, I just said that I prefer semi turn-based stuff to real time. Is that not allowed on newfag codex?
You are wrong. It is as has been said, IE games work on 6 second rounds, only everyone gets his round at the same time. Use an item, e.g. drink a potion. Then drink another one. You character will wait for the next round, only then he'll drink the second potion. The same applies for spells/using a wand or any other form of action except moving. There is no *move*-action in IE games. You can always move, before casting a spell, after casting a spell. It doesn't matter. If you cast a spell and have seconds left in that round you can attack and move - if you have attacks left for that round. Otherwise you can just move. Anyway, the fact that IE games don't treat moving as standard action that can be taken only once per round as per DnD doesn't mean that the game doesn't work on 6 second rounds - it does in fact.Overweight Manatee said:No. Characters never wait for rounds to end. Rounds are 6 seconds. If the characters went by rounds it would be never be possible to move or attack after casting, you would have to wait until 6 seconds after you begun casting the spell to move. But in IE you can in fact make a character do arbitrarily many actions within any 6 second period, so that is clearly not the case. The only thing 'round based' is spell casting, which can only be done once every 6 seconds. Everything else has nothing to do with rounds.