Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

[Overweight Manatee]

My thoughts after 2.5 hours:

* The UI is offensively bad. I could work a year trying to create the worst UI and control scheme possible and it would still pale in comparison to the horror that is Skyrim.

* Graphically, its Oblivion with mods. Amusingly it autodetected my system and set me to very low settings, then it ran fine on the highest. lolwut? Faces are much better, environments are nicer to look at even if they aren't graphically better than Oblivion thanks to better design. I really don't care for Crysis-level stuff, Skyrim looks fine so long as the game itself holds up. Only complaint is the retarded HDR bullshit that makes the screen brightness go from 0 to 100 every time you move you view 5 degrees. Probably a way to edit the configs to disable this, have to look through 'em.

* Gameplay wise, its certainly better than Oblivion. Not nearly as good as Morrowind in anything other than combat (where modded Morrowind still surpasses Skyrim). I think the biggest problem is an uncanny valley effect. That is, the game throws something you think is going to actually be fun to do, but half of the time it turns out to be just as derp as anything in Oblivion (which feels like a much bigger let down than when you are playing Oblivion and have already mentally dulled yourself to the pain). Quest design and exploration are certainly better across the board though. Overall, I would compare it to Fallout 3 but with slightly better writing (or perhaps I'm simply taking a lot less offense because TES has already been raped to death anyways).

* Holy fuck dragons are derp. Its like giving Cliff Racers 1k HPs and handing the player a slingshot and some spit balls to fight with. I can only hope that they stay relatively rare and that proceeding along the main quest doesn't bump their spawn rate up 1000%.

 

[circ]

MAJESTIC!

Nice AA. Oh wait there isn't any. Even BiWare can do AA.

Ok. Beginner level AA coding.

 

[crufty]

Abstractions are a good thing IMO.

Please explain that one more thoroughly, I don't understand.
.

Ok.

The real world has certain laws, many thousands of variables. One could craft precise models, and generate very precise results, or one could say...we will always have constraints of a, b and c. This eliminates special cases x, y and z. On average, in our model, we have e, sometimes d (left of e) and sometimes f ( right of e).

That d, e, f is an abstraction of a more complex system. As long as the results are, on average, correct, then the complex model can be done away with.

When it comes to games, bringing complexity out to the player can hinder instead of help. What are skills really? Is the difference between 38 and 39 so important? Furthermore, should someone who happens to get to 40 be rewarded with skill benefit if it is not their primary focus?

All those questions are done away with skill perks. If I pick the silent roll perk then I can assume I am already somewhat stealthy and sneaky; that I have focused my training in stealthy arts to be effective in this area, that I have the agility and dexterity required to do this acrobatic stunt. This is much easier on the player, then having to think...ok gotta get my dexterity to x, acrobatics to y, sneak to z, take three levels in thief, all which will take time t....or the perk can be abstracted, so that on average, it takes time t to get there. Same result, but one is more elegant the other crufty.

Perks have requirements, both in terms of skills and cost...If silent roll is fourth in a chain, it effectively costs four levels, with the additional Base skill percentage....I just can't buy it, I have to get my skill to that point, and conciously decide to buy the preceding perks.

That is what I like about the perk system...just because I have a high blade skill doesn't mean I'm a ridiculous swordsman.

 

[sea]

Markarth is such an impressive location that I have a hard time believing that it is in a Bethesda game, much less that Bethesda made it. I mean, okay, it's not outright amazing or anything, but compared to Oblivion's "put a bunch of houses down at random" design or Fallout 3's "caves full of children" this is pretty huge incline for them.

1) Large, circular design for the outdoor section of the town, highly vertical, with lots of of stairs, overpasses, balconies, and waterfalls and rivers flowing through it all. Really creative and visually impressive design, and fun to explore and walk around.

2) Indoors, there are multiple levels. The "castle" for lack of a better term is a large Dwemer keep with a number of sub-areas, ranging from a burial tomb to a large Dwemer museum of sorts. The smaller buildings outdoors range from temples to shops, and all are well-realized. There's also a sort of slum-ruin underneath called the Warrens, housing all the underclasses.

3) There is a large non-linear Dwemer dungeon area underneath with about five different levels, and a multi-stage side-quest involving a lost expedition into it which is only discovered through persistent exploration. Really cool area overall, and while lacking in puzzles and whatnot, it's definitely made the case that not all Skyrim dungeons are linear.

4) The city's economy is built almost entirely on its silver mine, which is in actuality a prison/forced labour camp owned by a dominant rich family (Silver-Bloods) who have no moral qualms with effectively operating as a large and legal organized crime group. Though they undoubtedly have positive effects, it's also clear that they resort to petty thuggery, extortion, etc. to get what they want - and because of their importance, they're above the law.

5) In almost every shop/inn/etc., NPCs have conversations between one another. There is repetition, but the conversations feel unique to the characters and really make the world feel far more alive than just static NPCs in static maps. Most of the NPCs have dialogue written specifically for speaking with other NPCs, i.e. a drunk will try to shake down people at the tavern for coin, and they'll each give their unique and personalized responses.

6) There are multi-level politics and power struggles between multiple factions which tie in with the game's larger world design.

a) There's the aforementioned Silver-Bloods, who sympathize with the Stormcloaks (in an Imperial-allied city), and who are too important to the economy despite their morally questionable means to send off to prison.

b) There are Thalmer investigators who are attempting to seek out Talos worshipers, who themselves are more or less above the law and who effectively serve as a fly in the ointment to the already tense situation between the Stormcloaks and Empire.

c) There are Forsworn rebels who serve as a drain on the city's economy as they raid caravans, and who serve as an ever-increasing threat to the stability of the current Imperial-allied Jarl.

7) During my time in the city, I found myself poking my nose into the politics and found myself repeatedly double-crossed, ambushed etc. There seems to be a larger plot at work that is gradually making itself clear the more I explore - and some of these things have been fairly obscure and unpredictable, i.e. finding a note hidden in a chest in a random house somewhere.

The rest of the game so far has been pretty ho-hum as far as cities go, but Markarth is really impressive both from a visual standpoint and in terms of how it fits into the world at large. That said, I don't know if the game's quests will capitalize on this design (probably not), but even the basic setup and framework is something I would not expect from Bethesda. It's almost like an entirely different developer built this part of the game.

 

[xemous]

skyrim is way better than oblivion. in oblivion i stopped playing after the tutorial dungeon because i was overwhelmed with nothing. in skyrim i managed to get to level fucking 11 before i quit.

credit where credit is due and im not being cynical, bethesda has improved by leaps and bounds over oblivion.

 

[attackfighter]

the thieves guild questline is actually a bit of an incline over what I've been doing so far. Probably because it's about thieves doing sensible things to make a profit and not OMG LOOK EPIX!

Really? My thoughts on the thief guild were entirely opposite. Everyone in it was wearing big tough conspicuous armour that would've made their profession blatantly obvious; the first few quests I've done have been ego stroking crap like having me extort EVERY SHOP OWNER IN TOWN and infiltrate some estate with a bajillion guards in it despite the fact that there were 10-20 senior guild members in the immediate vicinity should've easily handled those vital missions themselves; everyone in the guild acts like stereotypical hollywood hitmen types with their "blablabla I will kill you if you cross me grrrrrr" lines; the guild itself is impractical and ridiculously over-the-top (oh yeah so these thieves who everyone in town hates and is out to get are supposedly rich and powerful enough to maintain a gigantic underground complex that's known to practially everyone); then there's also the backstory of the guild being in a decline despite the fact that YOU a lowly initiate have been able to reverse their fortunes and that any of the many more experienced guild members for whatever reason are completel unable to do the same.

Thief guild = bullsheet.
I can't find a fighters guild and from all the werewolf stuff I've read on the 'dex I'm not eager to joni the Companions'.
Mage guild = lololol you've got to prove your worth by casting spells to get in.Oh and casting the highly advanced spells you already know doesn't work, you've gotta find some obscure novice spell that literally anyone could cast in order to prove you are a real wizard!!!!!

 

[Hamster]

Work has been keeping me away from PC, so i only now played the prologue of Scatrim. Well, looks much more promising than Oblivion so far, most likely i will enjoy it for what it is. But there are already things that pissed me off:

1) UI. Some of the worst i ever seen.

2) Railroading in the prologue. Why the hell am i forced to join imperials in killing Stormcloaks?

3) In general, playing Uncharted 3 and Dark Souls right before Skyrim was not a good idea. Especially Dark Souls with it's great, very visceral and kinetic combat. Skyrim's combat feels pathetic in comparison.

 

[Monocause]

* Gameplay wise, its certainly better than Oblivion. Not nearly as good as Morrowind in anything other than combat.

This keeps getting repeated so I'll bite: what, exactly, is better in MW than the lore? I played MW four-five times and always given up at some point due to overwhelming tedium. Combat - tedious, unrewarding. Exploration - tedious, until you start abusing magic or enchantments at which point it's just jumping from one point of interest to another. Dialogue - wiki NPCs, a handful of them had a personality. Quests - most of them were "waste 15 minutes on getting to X to bring Y or kill Z and get back" after which your only reward was usually 'advancement' or a thank you.

Alchemy, spellmaking, enchantment - fun, offensively broken. Managing alchemy ingredients - tedious.

The game had amazing atmosphere which it ruined with making literally everything as tedious or as broken as one can imagine. While I'd like MW spellmaking back I really prefer the way alchemy and enchantment work now. One thing I miss is an option to make potions in the field which could easily be implemented by providing the player with alchemical equipment with the caveat that if you're making potions away from a proper alchemy lab they'll be of lower quality.

 

[Gerrard]

So I arrived in Solitude at 2:30AM.

I guess any time is good for a public execution.

 

[crufty]

2) Railroading in the prologue. Why the hell am i forced to join imperials in killing Stormcloaks?
.

I wasn't...

 

[racofer]

MAJESTIC!

Nice AA. Oh wait there isn't any. Even BiWare can do AA.

Ok. Beginner level AA coding.

Indeed. I took that screenshot using the game's own 8xAA setting and the main screen, with Skyrim's logo and shit, was jagged. Pretty impressive tech from uncle Todd.

 

[GreyViper]

3) In general, playing Uncharted 3 and Dark Souls right before Skyrim was not a good idea. Especially Dark Souls with it's great, very visceral and kinetic combat. Skyrim's combat feels pathetic in comparison.

Nah you had a right idea, the two games you mentioned are worth it, give Skyrim time and get GOTY with all the DLCs when its cheap. Or play Saints Row The Third. :D

 

[Monocause]

2) Railroading in the prologue. Why the hell am i forced to join imperials in killing Stormcloaks?

You aren't. You can follow either Ralof or Hadvar, and whom you choose decides which uniforms you kill inside. That's some flavour C&C with you talking to different people later on in the village.

 

[Excidium]

2) Railroading in the prologue. Why the hell am i forced to join imperials in killing Stormcloaks?

You aren't. You can follow either Ralof or Hadvar, and whom you choose decides which uniforms you kill inside. That's some flavour C&C with you talking to different people later on in the village.

Obviously, Skyrim needs bigger quest markers.

 

[xemous]

you cant have any followers that do melee because its impossible to fucking hit anything without accidentally slashing them and they attack you.

you take the fucking horse anywhere because the stupid cunt runs off to attack a mage 100 yards away.

LOL

the game feel like its still in alpha

 

[Overweight Manatee]

* Gameplay wise, its certainly better than Oblivion. Not nearly as good as Morrowind in anything other than combat.

This keeps getting repeated so I'll bite: what, exactly, is better in MW than the lore? I played MW four-five times and always given up at some point due to overwhelming tedium. Combat - tedious, unrewarding. Exploration - tedious, until you start abusing magic or enchantments at which point it's just jumping from one point of interest to another. Dialogue - wiki NPCs, a handful of them had a personality. Quests - most of them were "waste 15 minutes on getting to X to bring Y or kill Z and get back" after which your only reward was usually 'advancement' or a thank you.

Alchemy, spellmaking, enchantment - fun, offensively broken. Managing alchemy ingredients - tedious.

The game had amazing atmosphere which it ruined with making literally everything as tedious or as broken as one can imagine. While I'd like MW spellmaking back I really prefer the way alchemy and enchantment work now. One thing I miss is an option to make potions in the field which could easily be implemented by providing the player with alchemical equipment with the caveat that if you're making potions away from a proper alchemy lab they'll be of lower quality.

Combat: I phrased that poorly. Skyrim combat definitely exceeds Morrowind's unmodded. Though not for lack of trying with HP-bloated enemies and as-ever poor AI.

Exploration: In Morrowind every quest gives you detailed (or not) directions like an ordinary person would and lets you find your way there. Fast travel options are limited to the ferry system. Dozens of the important dungeons (with the top class unique items) would never be reached by a following a big quest marker, you had to read the books for hints or just flat out be lucky finding them (granted I haven't done enough of Skyrim to know whether this is true or not). All of this contributes towards making it feel like you are actually exploring Morrowind vs. following the quest marker into oblivion. And continent hopping was awesome. Morrowind really wasn't that tedious to get around if you knew how to get to your location.

Dialog: The wiki is just a way of interaction, it says nothing about the dialog itself. Morrowind had paragraphs, Skyrim/Oblivion have single sentences. Need I really say more?

Quests: They all tie in to the much better exploration factor. As for the rewards: yeah, its almost realistic? Why, were you expecting the Uber Pwning sword of Pwningness in exchange for gathering flowers?

Alchemy/Spell stuff: Yeah, broken if you cheese it. I never played a full spell caster, those are equally boring in all TES games until you grind out a shit ton of levels. Oblivion/Skyrim's failings was the need to do fireball x100 to every unnamed bandit's face, that's hardly much better. As for finding ingrediants: Derp Detected. Mage's guild books on alchemy ingredient effects told you 3/4ths of what you needed to know, and you could buy them right from the vendors. Can't comment on enchanting as I have done none of it in Skrim, but Oblivion's was dogshit with its limitations so if Skrim is the same then its equally bad.

 

[racofer]

2) Railroading in the prologue. Why the hell am i forced to join imperials in killing Stormcloaks?

You aren't. You can follow either Ralof or Hadvar, and whom you choose decides which uniforms you kill inside. That's some flavour C&C with you talking to different people later on in the village.

Obviously, Skyrim needs bigger quest markers.

Perhaps Fallout 4 will fix that issue with Precognitive Intuitive Karma Advancement C&C Heuristic Umbrage (tm) (r) (c) and players will have an easier time around.

 

[Raapys]

This keeps getting repeated so I'll bite: what, exactly, is better in MW than the lore? I played MW four-five times and always given up at some point due to overwhelming tedium. Combat - tedious, unrewarding. Exploration - tedious, until you start abusing magic or enchantments at which point it's just jumping from one point of interest to another. Dialogue - wiki NPCs, a handful of them had a personality. Quests - most of them were "waste 15 minutes on getting to X to bring Y or kill Z and get back" after which your only reward was usually 'advancement' or a thank you.

Alchemy, spellmaking, enchantment - fun, offensively broken. Managing alchemy ingredients - tedious.

The game had amazing atmosphere which it ruined with making literally everything as tedious or as broken as one can imagine. While I'd like MW spellmaking back I really prefer the way alchemy and enchantment work now. One thing I miss is an option to make potions in the field which could easily be implemented by providing the player with alchemical equipment with the caveat that if you're making potions away from a proper alchemy lab they'll be of lower quality.

And I'll bite on yours. What exactly is it people, or you in this case, find better about Skyrim vs Oblivion? I've played the game a fair bit now, and I really must conclude that my first real impression( if not my initial impression) is still true: The atmosphere is better, landscape/world design looks better, dungeons look better, combat looks better, magic looks better, enemies look better. In other words, prettier. But that's it for good things.

Look beyond the visuals for a moment. Combat? As you say with Morrowind, tedious and unrewarding. Rinse and repeat. MW with mods actually had far better combat than this. Exploration? Interesting for the first hour or so, until you realize that there isn't really much interesting stuff to find, just more enemies and a quest here and there. About the level of MW then. Dialog? Hah, don't get me started. Reading Morrowind's wikipedia is far more interesting than this stuff. Quests? I've done a fair bit of them, only a handful didn't have me 'go to dungeon x, bring back item y, kill person z'. Then you've gone from MW's 'look around that area, the cave should be somewhere near there' to 'just follow the magic pointer on your hud!!' gameplay. No improvement there.

Then you've the skills of course. Let's just whisker away attributes and the effects they had and could have and replace them with the fabulous mana, stamina and health!!!! Let's make every skill matter just as much when you level up!!! Let's remove as many skills as we can!!! Let's add derpy perks so WoW players will feel at home!!! There's just so much wrong with that part it's almost enough to ruin the game by itself. What could have been an excellent system had they taken the time to improve it, was instead replaced by herpderp.

Spells, spellmaking. Yeah, not really. It looks better in combat, in every other way it fails greatly. It's a decline from Oblivion, but it's not even comparable to MW. After the initial 'WOW COOL SKELETON BONES EVERYWHERE' impression from my mage, it grew exceedingly dull to play once I realized just how shallow they'd made it.

I could go on, but I'm sure you get my drift. Beyond the visual illusion, there really isn't much going on in the game. It's just another next-gen dumbed down "rpg" that has captivated people with atmosphere and the illusion of an interesting world. Improvements are few, decline is there even from Oblivion and the rest has already been done by the Nehrim mod for OB.

Oh, as far imbalances in Morrowind and also Daggerfall, I actually think that's *much* preferable to carefully balanced and sterile games such as Skyrim and, to a larger degree, OB. Daggerfall probably has the most broken spell system ever made in terms of balance, at least when combined with the also broken enchantment system. Yet it's nonetheless far more entertaining than the similar systems in both MW, OB and Skyrim.

 

[iqwerty]

The graphic in this game is beautiful, I don't care about pixels. But there is something in this skyrim I can't get over with: a lot of quest wants you to go far away from where you actually get the quest, so I'm forced to teleport all over the continent. Why it has to be like that? The fast travel sucks. And with the marker you don't even have look where you're going. Just follow the magical arrow over and over, listen to some dialogue you can't avoid or change; the game play for you. Morrowind was way more fun than this.

 

[Turjan]

Exploration: In Morrowind every quest gives you detailed (or not) directions like an ordinary person would and lets you find your way there. Fast travel options are limited to the ferry system.

Let me think for a moment: Ships, silt striders, Amsivi Intervention, Divine Intervention, Mark/Recall, Mages Guild Guides, Propylon Indexes. Did I forget anything? Nothing against Morrowind, and planning a route was definitely more challenging, but it had lots of fast travel options.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

2) Railroading in the prologue. Why the hell am i forced to join imperials in killing Stormcloaks?

You aren't. You can follow either Ralof or Hadvar, and whom you choose decides which uniforms you kill inside. That's some flavour C&C with you talking to different people later on in the village.

Obviously, Skyrim needs bigger quest markers.

Actually, it says "Follow Ralof or Hadvar" on the screen.

 

[Scruffy]

except graphically.

Yeah, there, I said it. Skyrim fucking sucks. The story sucks, the quests suck, the gameplay sucks, the dialogues suck, the voice acting sucks, the rpg elements... are non-existent, but it sure looks nice.

I was doing the mage quests, and I can't help but compare it to Morrowind. Remember how the mage guild was down to earth in Morrowind? Remember how they had a normal looking building in the city? Remember how they started you out on really mundane tasks aimed at familiarizing you with your environment? Remember how you advanced through the ranks, and the ranks actually had requirements that made you sure you were an actual mage? Remember how the high level missions were mostly political?

Well, fuck all that. That's not MAJESTIC enough. I can see the bethpizda meeting now. "We want something that kids who don't have enough of an attention span to watch Harry Potter movies will enjoy."

And oh god are the mages in Skyrim MAJESTIC. They live on a GIANT ROCK, where the college is made out of GIANT STONE, like everything else in Skyrim. The hall are HUGE, even though there's nothing in them. The only way into a college is through a decrepit walkway over a CHASM OF DEATH, even though this is absolutely the only way to and from there. The place is littered with MYSTERIOUS POOLS OF MANA and KICKASS EPIC LASERS BEAMS INTO THE SKY. The missions ARE MAJESTIC!!!!! The second mission has you SAVING THE WORLD, and fighting EPIC UNDEAD. In the middle of the second mission you're contacted by a MAJESTIC SECRET MAGE ORDER LONG PRESUMED DEAD BUT REALLY OPERATING IN THE SHADOWS WIELDING MORE POWER THAN ANY IMAGINE, AND THEY WANT YOU!!!

EPIC!!!

This whole game is EPIC. If by epic we agree to mean shit.

who would have thought
i would have never expected that from a bethesda game

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Fuck epicness. Picking flowers for Ajira is where its at.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Exploration: In Morrowind every quest gives you detailed (or not) directions like an ordinary person would and lets you find your way there. Fast travel options are limited to the ferry system.

Let me think for a moment: Ships, silt striders, Amsivi Intervention, Divine Intervention, Mark/Recall, Mages Guild Guides, Propylon Indexes. Did I forget anything? Nothing against Morrowind, and planning a route was definitely more challenging, but it had lots of fast travel options.

As I said, limited to the ferry systems (silt triders/ships/mage guild/propylon are all ferries). Almsivi/Divine is more of a way to get back and mark/recall is kind of just a handy bookmark for your quest giver. The main point being that it rewarded figuring out how the gameworld works instead of looking at the quest marker and teleporting to the nearest mapped location. And no, you didn't miss anything (unless you count the gondolas in Vivec city).

 

[Hamster]

2) Railroading in the prologue. Why the hell am i forced to join imperials in killing Stormcloaks?

You aren't. You can follow either Ralof or Hadvar, and whom you choose decides which uniforms you kill inside. That's some flavour C&C with you talking to different people later on in the village.

Fuck, i'm dumb. I thought i may have missed somethig, that seemed too bad even for Beth. I was actually wondering what should i do, reload and investigate or go bitch on a codex.

Actually, it says "Follow Ralof or Hadvar" on the screen.

Ehh... but the game was constantly telling me stuff like "use mouse to look around" so i kinda stopped paying any attention...