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SMAC 444 - AI patch updated [p]

JoKa

Cipher
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
689
Location
Nordland
since when can you put two boreholes next to each other? or does the AI cheat...?

nice patch, btw, will try it soon!
 

catfood

AGAIN
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Aug 28, 2008
Messages
9,272
Location
Nirvana for mice
kyrub said:
Nice demonstration of the new terraforming, thanks, catfood!
Farms / Solar collectors: If you want to know more about the terraforming algorithm, you may look here.


By the way, Morganites, of all factions, have a nice empire in your game! And - if I am correct - there are at least 3 boreholes on their continent, woohoo. Looking good.

Yeah, I like how they're packed nice and tight and ready for conquering. :D

EDIT: did you change the AI regarding probes? In my game I used to be spammed by them constantly for a while. I don't remember the AI being so fond of them before but I could be wrong. It was annoying but in a good way, they sabotaged the production of my units a good number of times.



since when can you put two boreholes next to each other? or does the AI cheat...?

Now that you mention it, that does look strange. Nice observation.
 

kyrub

Augur
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
347
catfood said:
did you change the AI regarding probes? In my game I used to be spammed by them constantly for a while.
Not intentionally. But the promoting of speeder units could have had this side-effect. Since probes are basically speeder-probes... Yes, it seems probable on the second thought. (I am still not very satisfied with the limited number of speeders in the game. At least the effect is visible somewhere.)

If AI use extensive environment-damaged upgrades like that, wont Centauri get quicker climate changes?
I have seen catastrophic sea rising around 2415 in a testgame. Half of Spartan territory went in water in 15 years. I don't know if its normal or ahead of schedule.
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,229
Location
Poland
Just code the AI to build enough domes then. Some factions shouldnt care about enviroment (Morganites, the Hive) and some should (Gaians, University perhaps).

Still some tweaking in the pollution code would be nice. I always found it ridiculous how sea levels raised in SMAC.
 

Eyeball

Arcane
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
2,541
I actually have this game lying around, but since I played it after Civ3, the godawfully ugly graphics and clunky interface by comparison put me off ever playing it more than 15 minutes.

Could either of you esteemed gentlemen explain to me what makes this game receive such high praise and fanmade AI patches? Maybe I should give it another go.
 

JoKa

Cipher
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
689
Location
Nordland
i'll reiterate my question from above: why are there 2 boreholes next to each other in the second screenshot? does your patch make that possible for everyone or does the AI cheat?

@eyeball: it's the better game. i couldn't bear playing more than one round of civ3 and 4 because everything's just so dumbed down...
 

taplonaplo

Scholar
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
628
Eyeball said:
I actually have this game lying around, but since I played it after Civ3, the godawfully ugly graphics and clunky interface by comparison put me off ever playing it more than 15 minutes.

Could either of you esteemed gentlemen explain to me what makes this game receive such high praise and fanmade AI patches? Maybe I should give it another go.
What i like about it is how much more freedom you have compared to other civ games. It also has tons of different mechanics that can either screw you over, or benefit you greatly depending on your play style. For example in the other Civs you want to avoid pollution at all cost, while in SMAC early "pollution" is an excellent way to make income buy killing mindworms, and decrease the effects of polluting later, but overdoing it will make global warming (which again may or may not be useful for you).

The reason for the AI patch is, coz the AI fails at taking advantage of these mechanics and makes for a rather weak opponent even on the harder difficulties if not for some lucky circumstances.
 

Gondolin

Arcane
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Purveyor of fine art
Eyeball said:
I actually have this game lying around, but since I played it after Civ3, the godawfully ugly graphics and clunky interface by comparison put me off ever playing it more than 15 minutes.

Could either of you esteemed gentlemen explain to me what makes this game receive such high praise and fanmade AI patches? Maybe I should give it another go.

It's all in the options:

Social engineering - http://files.myopera.com/FinalParagon/blog/social_engineering.jpg

TERRAFORMING! - raise terrain, lower terrain, decrease rockiness, plant forest, plant fungus, turn a mountain into plains, turn plains into mountain, raise a landbrige from the sea and connect your continent to another continent, make rivers

Workshop - design your own units.

SUPPLY CRAWLERS! - get resources from squares outside the range of bases.

(Plus, I'm bored with the same civilizations/sciences/units of the Civ games.)
 

kyrub

Augur
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
347
JoKa said:
i'll reiterate my question from above: why are there 2 boreholes next to each other in the second screenshot? does your patch make that possible for everyone or does the AI cheat?

No, it must be the original behavior. Two boreholes bug existed in previous versions, when you could start drilling another borehole before the first one was finished. I believe this explloit was fixed either by Firaxis (surely so in SMACX), or by scient. Evidently, the check is unfonctional for the AI.
People used to complain that all AIs build about 1 borehole during the whole game, and now we have the contrary - it builds them in clusters. ;)


--------------

@eyeball
All said above seconded. -- It's like a civilization game, but made with a lot more fantasy and player's freedom. I usually don't focus too much on the game background, but the SMAC has outstanding videos and great texts and quotes, offering different philosophical (cum grano salis) views on humanity. It blends perfectly with the game itself and it offers a lot for a strategic role-playing later. Another difference from Civ: the leaders have strong personnalities and preferences and you feel that throughout the game. (It may become boring later, but they can be easily edited / modded to suit your taste.).

It must be said there are several disapointments in SMAC as well. Late game micromanagement is in its premium, some elements severely lack balance (no spoilers here, you find them yourself), tech tree is really hard to grasp and the AI has a task too complex to fill in 1999 (but they tried hard).

Last word: there's a good number of people who find SMAC ugly and inaccessible (maybe like you). SMAC's atmosphere is dark and sinister, intentionnally, the PLANET does not seem friendly at all, at first. I find this an exciting change from the non-complicated and optimistic view on human civilization from the same called series. But I understand it may pull off somebody else. Try to go a bit further in the game and savour it.
 

eidahl

Novice
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
11
Location
Sunny CA
kyrub said:
JoKa said:
i'll reiterate my question from above: why are there 2 boreholes next to each other in the second screenshot? does your patch make that possible for everyone or does the AI cheat?
...
Last word: there's a good number of people who find SMAC ugly and inaccessible (maybe like you). SMAC's atmosphere is dark and sinister, intentionnally, the PLANET does not seem friendly at all, at first. I find this an exciting change from the non-complicated and optimistic view on human civilization from the same called series. But I understand it may pull off somebody else. Try to go a bit further in the game and savour it.

Absolute! The game just feels.. alive. I just don't know of anything else like it.
 

catfood

AGAIN
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Nirvana for mice
Gondolin said:
Eyeball said:
I actually have this game lying around, but since I played it after Civ3, the godawfully ugly graphics and clunky interface by comparison put me off ever playing it more than 15 minutes.

Could either of you esteemed gentlemen explain to me what makes this game receive such high praise and fanmade AI patches? Maybe I should give it another go.

It's all in the options:

Social engineering - http://files.myopera.com/FinalParagon/blog/social_engineering.jpg

TERRAFORMING! - raise terrain, lower terrain, decrease rockiness, plant forest, plant fungus, turn a mountain into plains, turn plains into mountain, raise a landbrige from the sea and connect your continent to another continent, make rivers

Workshop - design your own units.

SUPPLY CRAWLERS! - get resources from squares outside the range of bases.

(Plus, I'm bored with the same civilizations/sciences/units of the Civ games.)

I'd also like to add the fact that the "babrabrians" in this game are the sentient lifeforms of the planet who act as its white cells so to speak. The planet itself a living being, almost like another player, and you have these interludes where your faction leader and planet are having conversations. Depending on your social engineering and your terraforming actions you can befriend them or make enemies of them.

And on the subject of terraforming: for instance, you can raise mountains (and mountains aren't just tiles that are drawn like mountains like in Civ, see the pics I posted) and since the winds blow from west to east, the west side of the mountain becomes moist and fit for farming while the eastern slope becomes arid. It's details like these that make it way ahead of its time. If you liked Civ you absolutely MUST play SMAC. Just stay clear of the expansion. It's shit.
 

Gondolin

Arcane
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Purveyor of fine art
Basically, in all Civ games you have to go the industry+agriculture route of terraforming/city facilities. In Alpha Centauri you can choose between industry+agriculture, unshaved/natural (all forestl) and native wildlife (all fungus). Or you can mix and match. If you play the expansion, you can also add the sea route. I like my continents to be unbroken seas of green. Once I get to gravships, I start removing the roads. :D
 

eidahl

Novice
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
11
Location
Sunny CA
Does anyone else end up spending ALL their time just micromanaging / terraforming.. ? Combat feels like too much a chore - I'd rather raise a bridge to the enemy island than try to transport them over there. XD
 

taplonaplo

Scholar
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
628
Pfft, choppers + drop units all the way baby!

I usually end up automatizing my formers eventually, gets really boring after you worked out your original city cluster and you go on conquering.
 

commie

The Last Marxist
Patron
Joined
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Messages
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Where one can weep in peace
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Social Engineering rocks. Finally I could make a proper Communist utopia and not be forced to take the 'Commies=polluting/military/oppressive' zero sum choice of other Civ games. :)
 

Eyeball

Arcane
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
2,541
Played this game some more. It's an ugly reskin of Civ2. The anaemic Social Engineering and Unit Workshop features aren't enough to warrant re-releasing Civ2 IN SPAAAAAACE!

Still, since Civ2 was a fantastic game, SMAC is enjoyable enough. If only it wasn't so hideously purplish-brown and ugly...

Why do you guys hate so much on the expansion, by the way? I mean, the addition of actual alien races seems a little forced, as the original is all about Human vs Human In Space warfare, but I can't really tell which of the new features induces such nerdrage.
 

Gondolin

Arcane
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Oct 6, 2007
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Purveyor of fine art
Anemic compared to...?

And it's not exactly "Civ2 in space". Unless your trying for the title of "Strategy Drog", in which case: 'sup?
 

catfood

AGAIN
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
9,272
Location
Nirvana for mice
Eyeball said:
Why do you guys hate so much on the expansion, by the way? I mean, the addition of actual alien races seems a little forced, as the original is all about Human vs Human In Space warfare, but I can't really tell which of the new features induces such nerdrage.

The races suck ass. Three of them are completely overpowered, namely the 2 alien races and the pirate dudes. The rest of them are either rehashes of the ones from SMAC (commies and hippies), the hacker faction is retarded (I mean wtf?). The only cool ones are the cyborgs.

EDIT: also, sup Drog.
 

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