So... Rage?

[Kaiserin]

Too bad the post-apocalyptic setting is turning into a shallow fad and will soon be strip mined of any worth it ever had. If you wanna fuck something up, just tell people about it and the rest will fix itself.

 

[bossjimbob]

Tim Willits mentioned there is a new focus on story, unlike older id games. Will have to wait and see but I'm interested just from hearing that, and the fact that it's more of an open world game with instanced dungeons rather than a pure corridor shooter.

 

[J1M]

If you actually had something you would have provided it a long time ago.

Are you really that incompetent? It's right there on Google if you'd taken the hint. You don't even need to scroll down

You want me to win this argument so badly that even after "finding" a link that proves you right, you refuse to paste it here, but find time to keep claiming you have one? Okay. Sounds good.

 

[DefJam101]

How, exactly, is someone supposed to find facts that support their opinion of which game engine is better?

I thought it went without saying that: Source looks like total shit, but is a good mod platform. Unreal is the same as it has always been except with more bloom and higher res textures. Doom 3 engine is only suited to a specific type of game, and it does what it sets out to do very well.

Not sure you can decide if one is simply 'better' than the others.

 

[DefJam101]

Also:

Reports indicate that id is developing Rage with a T-for-Teen rating in mind,

Well, this is gonna suck.

 

[J1M]

How, exactly, is someone supposed to find facts that support their opinion of which game engine is better?

I thought it went without saying that: Source looks like total shit, but is a good mod platform. Unreal is the same as it has always been except with more bloom and higher res textures. Doom 3 engine is only suited to a specific type of game, and it does what it sets out to do very well.

Not sure you can decide if one is simply 'better' than the others.

There are a lot of ways you could try and determine which engine is better, but it's pretty clear that if you are a company with a history of developing licensed engines and everybody licenses other engines instead of your new one that your new one sucks.

From the previous page:

Your opinion is that people offered to pay them for their engine and they said "no, we will only sell it to Raven"? That's pretty stupid.

No, that's a fact. Get yours right.

And we are still waiting for a link to these facts. Feel free to search for them too. I know you sore with me from that other thread.

 

[sportforredneck]

Learn to love J1M!

 

[DefJam101]

How, exactly, is someone supposed to find facts that support their opinion of which game engine is better?

I thought it went without saying that: Source looks like total shit, but is a good mod platform. Unreal is the same as it has always been except with more bloom and higher res textures. Doom 3 engine is only suited to a specific type of game, and it does what it sets out to do very well.

Not sure you can decide if one is simply 'better' than the others.

There are a lot of ways you could try and determine which engine is better, but it's pretty clear that if you are a company with a history of developing licensed engines and everybody licenses other engines instead of your new one that your new one sucks.

That makes it more popular, not better.

Certain engines can be designed for more specific jobs, thus making them less/more popular. D3 engine was designed with small dark spaces in mind, where the Unreal3/Source engines were both designed with larger but less atmospheric spaces in mind. Since large and 'free roaming' is a trend at the moment, it's no surprise that U3/Source are more popular. That and them being better mod platforms, although I (and many others) will say that this comes at the cost of quality.

 

[udm]

And we are still waiting for a link to these facts. Feel free to search for them too. I know you sore with me from that other thread.

Sore with you for what?

Oh well, looks like some people are too used to being spoonfed

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=508

The funny thing is, despite having posted so much, I don't see you having any proof to back your own claims, like

"but it's pretty clear that if you are a company with a history of developing licensed engines and everybody licenses other engines instead of your new one that your new one sucks."

It's pretty clear by J1M yeah

 

[J1M]

And we are still waiting for a link to these facts. Feel free to search for them too. I know you sore with me from that other thread.

Sore with you for what?

That comment was in reply to someone else. That's probably why it was directed at them.

Oh well, looks like some people are too used to being spoonfed

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=508

Really? This is all you have?

You come bearing one sentence of revisionist history. Let's look at the facts.

idTech 2 Games:
Anachronox Eidos;Infogrames (ION Storm) 2001 Windows
Daikatana Eidos (Ion Storm) 2000 Windows
Heretic II (Heretic 2) Activision (Raven Software) 1998 Windows
John Romero's Daikatana Kemco;Electro Source (Ion Storm;Kemco) 2000 N64
Kingpin: Life of Crime Interplay Entertainment (Xatrix Entertainment) 1999 Windows
Quake II (Quake 2) Activision (id Software) 1997 Windows
SiN Activision (Ritual Entertainment) 1998 Windows
SiN: Wages of Sin Activision (2015) 1999 Windows
Soldier of Fortune Activision (Raven Software) 2000 Windows

idTech 3 Games:
American McGee's Alice (2000) – Rogue Entertainment
Call of Duty (2003) – Infinity Ward
Heavy Metal: F.A.K.K.² (2000) – Ritual Entertainment
James Bond 007: Everything or Nothing (2004) – EA Black Box
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault (2002) – 2015, Inc. (based on the modified FAKK2 code base)
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault - Spearhead (2003) – EA Los Angeles
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault - Breakthrough (2003) – TKO Software
Quake III Arena (1999) – id Software
Quake III: Team Arena (2000) – id Software
Return to Castle Wolfenstein (2001) – Gray Matter Interactive (SP) / Nerve Software (MP)
Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory (2003) – Splash Damage
Severity (2007) – Cyberathlete Professional League
Soldier of Fortune II: Double Helix (2002) – Raven Software
Star Trek: Voyager Elite Force (2000) – Raven Software
Star Trek: Elite Force II (2003) – Ritual Entertainment
Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast (2002) – Raven Software
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy (2003) – Raven Software
Iron Grip: Warlord (2008) – Isotx
Quake Live (TBA) – id Software

idTech 4 Games:
Doom 3 – id Software
Quake 4 – Raven Software
Prey – Human Head Studios
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars – Splash Damage
Wolfenstein – Raven Software

I tried to remove the expansion packs but I might have missed a couple.

Point is, they were growing their business pretty well until the competition bested them. As you so kindly pointed out, they even admit to having crummy tools.

 

[DefJam101]

Ugh, I was so disappointed by Prey.

Honestly, they could have done so much with that game. Why did they have to fuck it up?

 

[Occasionally Fatal]

Also:

Reports indicate that id is developing Rage with a T-for-Teen rating in mind,

Well, this is gonna suck.

I just lost any interest I had in this game.

 

[udm]

You quoted a bunch of games, yet forget that eventually these developers have connections with id software. Way to prove your "evidence". Look at the percentage of games in there that are created by random developers from tech 2 to tech 3. And run a search on some of those games. There was even an interview somewhere saying that Valve only managed to get the Quake engine because an employee in there had connections with id

The link to shacknews is just one of several. It's the most recent, but since id tech 3, there have been quite a few surfacing on the Internet

Sad. I give you a link, you tell me "that's it?" - the link being an interview which is right from the horse's mouth. I can see where this argument is going. My point still stands - id doesn't license to just any random passer by on the street with money (and not a Jihad Tower Destroyer 9/11 wannabe-creator). But if it makes you feel better, you can continue to insist you're right, since I won't be around to post for about a month

Besides,

Your opinion is that people offered to pay them for their engine and they said "no, we will only sell it to Raven"? That's pretty stupid.

No, that's a fact. Get yours right.

Post your proof and I'll admit I was wrong and call id stupid instead of you.

Proof posted. It's another story whether you want to believe it or not

 

[J1M]

You quoted a bunch of games, yet forget that eventually these developers have connections with id software. Way to prove your "evidence". Look at the percentage of games in there that are created by random developers from tech 2 to tech 3. And run a search on some of those games. There was even an interview somewhere saying that Valve only managed to get the Quake engine because an employee in there had connections with id

The link to shacknews is just one of several. It's the most recent, but since id tech 3, there have been quite a few surfacing on the Internet

Sad. I give you a link, you tell me "that's it?" - the link being an interview which is right from the horse's mouth. I can see where this argument is going. My point still stands - id doesn't license to just any random passer by on the street with money (and not a Jihad Tower Destroyer 9/11 wannabe-creator). But if it makes you feel better, you can continue to insist you're right, since I won't be around to post for about a month

Besides,

Your opinion is that people offered to pay them for their engine and they said "no, we will only sell it to Raven"? That's pretty stupid.

No, that's a fact. Get yours right.

Post your proof and I'll admit I was wrong and call id stupid instead of you.

Proof posted. It's another story whether you want to believe it or not

As I said you posted some revisionist history. Your proof would have been more compelling if it was from a time prior to their engine failing and you know, didn't admit to their tools being crappy. But hey, for single player only games that take place indoors underground and/or in hell at night I'm sure that engine was the best one on the market, lol.

 

[udm]

It's revisionist (or appears) only because there's no evidence from other developers that they didn't choose Tech 4 for reasons that you mentioned. Looking back, I'd say that we can only assume. I believe what I have seen so far, and you yours. It's quite a cyclical argument really

I worked with Tech 4 stuff for some time, so I don't agree that the modding tools are crappy. Well, actually, md5 is kinda shitty to work with, with documentation of md5 anims being sparse. But the map editor was easy to use, since it's like Radiant + movable lights. The limitation comes in with "ambient lighting", but a modder called BloodRayne solved it by combining dynamic lighting with ambient lighting, some time after Doom 3 was released. The AI was written in C, then subdivided into scripts, so scripting AI (like scripting imps to climb on walls) was easy too if you had some basic understanding of coding/scripting. The UI scripts are bloody complicated at first, but the syntax is still the same at the end of the day. You only need to "type" a lot if you want a complicated UI, but it's doable

We've also seen some really good mods in the making. The Dark Mod, although still in alpha form, has made some really good progress to distinguish it as a true TC. Then there's Commander Doom and Dungeon Doom, both of which are partial TCs, yet done by only one person

I don't work with Source, so I can't compare both, but I usually just mod for fun, and from what I've seen, tech 4 wasn't hard to work with at all. In fact, I can liken it to a more complex version of Neverwinter Night's Aurora toolset in certain aspects, like modding in on-screen text/PDA messages, changing properties etc. Maybe if you'd suggest what was specifically borked about the modding part, it would be easier to discuss

 

[J1M]

It's revisionist (or appears) only because there's no evidence from other developers that they didn't choose Tech 4 for reasons that you mentioned. Looking back, I'd say that we can only assume. I believe what I have seen so far, and you yours. It's quite a cyclical argument really

That's a logical fallacy. Perfect knowledge is not a requirement of drawing a plausible conclusion.

I don't work with Source, so I can't compare both, but I usually just mod for fun, and from what I've seen, tech 4 wasn't hard to work with at all. In fact, I can liken it to a more complex version of Neverwinter Night's Aurora toolset in certain aspects, like modding in on-screen text/PDA messages, changing properties etc. Maybe if you'd suggest what was specifically borked about the modding part, it would be easier to discuss

Modding was a side issue in this thread. If that's what you like to use, then all the power to you. I can do everything short of custom pixel shaders that I want to with Unreal, so I use that.

 

[Geofferic]

The name alone is a turn off.

 

[Kingston]

The name alone is a turn off.

All the ID games seem to have a one word title. Doom and Quake are ballsy, but Rage lacks that edge. Doom and Quake have that punchy edge to them, but try saying Rage and it doesn't work. Must be that long "ayyyyyy" in -age.

 

[DefJam101]

What the fuck are they thinking trying to design a T-Rated post-apocalyptic FPS in the first place?

 

[Fez]

Got to get those Wal-Mart approved sales.

 

[Occasionally Fatal]

What the fuck are they thinking trying to design a T-Rated post-apocalyptic FPS in the first place?

Yeah... ffs, even Bethseda knows better than that. Plus, when has ID ever released a T rated game?

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Wasn't Rage also the name for a shareware beat em up?