StarLife Game - Early development - Feedback is welcome

[tiagocc0]

Hi, I know this is a dedicated forum to RPG but let me say I want to implement as much RPG elements as I can in this game, but it will play more like Master of Orion 2.

Here's the site with info: http://purpleorangegames.com/

I'm planning to start a Kickstater project so I can raise funds for graphics, sounds and music.

Any feedback is welcome, even if it's to tell me it looks like gorilla crap, thank you for your time reading this!

Here's a sample of what's on the site:
"This project is about building a turn-based 4X science fiction computer strategy game, just like Master of Orion 2 which is the main inspiration for us, following Space Pirates and Zombies, Galactic Civilizations 2, X-Com (UFO: Enemy Unknown), Victoria II, Spore, Civilizations V, Syndicate, Star Trek Birth of the Federation, Fallout Tactics and Gratuitous Space Battles.

We took some ideas from Spore as well, but just from the hype, as the game wasn’t what I was expecting it to be. Many wonderful ideas were left out. Not to worry, I know our game can reach this amazing potential.

Spore, Civilization, Fallout Tactics: The idea is to start small and grow as the game progress, it will look like Civilization technological tree and the player will be able to mutate its own species and expand on the map until it's fully colonized. The player will be able to acquire perks like in Fallout and this is the first part of the game will be called Evolution.

Master of Orion 2, Galactic Civilizations 2: As the player is now able to travel in space, the game becomes very similar to MOO2, I hope to be able to build a very similar game while at the same time improving what needs to be improved about MOO2, this is the second part of the game and will be called Spacefaring.

X-Com, Syndicate: Just like you were able to grab enemy equipments and research then, I plan to make a game where what can be seen, can be replicated, stealing your rival’s equipment and technology must be a crucial part of the game. Going to war doesn’t mean just getting there and shooting everyone you find. In any war you have to worry about what’s left after a mission gone wrong.

In MOO2 you can capture enemy ships and steal technology by scraping captured ships, invading planets and assign spies against your enemy, my idea is to expand this concept and make it more enjoyable and not only a rare event."


EDIT:
Game menu edited, you can check at: http://tiagocc0.webs.com/screenshots.htm
New game video, you can check at:

EDIT2:
Screenshot of the Tactical Combat application at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/purpleorangegames/5972157814/in/photostream
Just registered a domain for the game: http://purpleorangegames.com/

EDIT3:
Post about Tactical Combat: http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=62295
Post about AI: http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=62262
Great post about how to make combat more realistic: http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=62277

EDIT4:
The kickstarter project has started:http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-based-space-strategy-indie-game?ref=category
Wish me luck! If you want you may spread the word, this will really help me, thanks!


EDIT5:
A place for you to share your ideas about this game
Here you can vote what you want, and anybody can see and vote too on your idea.

http://purpleorangegames.uservoice.com/ ... -star-life

I will read each and every one of them, thank you!

EDIT6:
I just released a new video

Here's the description:
+Added a bottom menu
+keyboard shortcuts
+path highlighted which shows number of movements
+movement is restricted by blocking enemy ships

Before starting the simulation you can:
+add ships by coordinate
+choose ship image and color
+choose movement and attack range, attack damage
+choose ship hit points
+choose a name for the ship

And you can download and test the demo, it's available on my site:
http://www.purpleorangegames.com
http://purpleorangegames.com/StarLifeTa ... eCombat.7z
If the game does not work please tell me, I may have missed a file.

If you have time please check this out:
http://purpleorangegames.uservoice.com/ ... -star-life
You can suggest anything for the game there and vote on other suggestions, I've left a few there already.

Thank you very much, happy holidays for everyone!

 

[Jaesun]

Well, I just came in my pants. Please do finish this. Sounds awesome.

Good Luck!

 

[curry]

I'm planning to start a Kickstater project so I can raise funds for graphics, sounds and music.

Where's the screenies? Have you actually made something yet? If not, GTFO and come back when you have something to show.

I'm tired of people trying to be game developers when all they can do is write down a fucking game idea.

 

[tiagocc0]

Well, I just came in my pants. Please do finish this. Sounds awesome.

Good Luck!

Thanks Jaesun!

I'm planning to start a Kickstater project so I can raise funds for graphics, sounds and music.

Where's the screenies? Have you actually made something yet? If not, GTFO and come back when you have something to show.

I'm tired of people trying to be game developers when all they can do is write down a fucking game idea.

http://tiagocc0.webs.com/screenshots.htm
http://tiagocc0.webs.com/conceptart.htm

I have already started programming, the two screenshots are fully functional and animated.
I have a job that I use Qt from Nokia, so creating a game using this tool won't be a problem, I'm using QML from the Qt Quick too. That's mainly to create games and applications for Maemo, Symbian but it looks great to create games that are not too demanding.

 

[Haba]

I have a job that I use Qt from Nokia, so creating a game using this tool won't be a problem, I'm using QML from the Qt Quick too.

You have the required degree of masochism to succeed in indie scene, it seems.

 

[tiagocc0]

You have the required degree of masochism to succeed in indie scene, it seems.

So it seems
On the bright side the game can/will be ported to linux and mac os x with minimum effort.

 

[eugene2k]

I have a job that I use Qt from Nokia, so creating a game using this tool won't be a problem, I'm using QML from the Qt Quick too.

Qt isn't a game engine, so I suppose your game won't really look much like a game. What you have outlined in your first post sounds promising, but that's because people expect the bits you didn't mention to be "just like in other games". You have to write about everything, including the bad parts. In other words you need to make a design document before you pitch your idea to the public.

 

[Grunker]

Please make this game

 

[Destroid]

Ambitious to produce what is essentially several games in one. Do you have any completed projects under your belt?

EDIT: Your logo is almost unreadable on that background, the 'orange' is extremely hard to make out. Also you spelled 'Kickstarter' incorrectly in your website menu.

 

[tiagocc0]

Qt isn't a game engine, so I suppose your game won't really look much like a game. What you have outlined in your first post sounds promising, but that's because people expect the bits you didn't mention to be "just like in other games". You have to write about everything, including the bad parts. In other words you need to make a design document before you pitch your idea to the public.

If I use Qt Gui it sure won't look nice, but I'm using qml that uses opengl.

I will write about everything as I progress trough the game development.
I'm a c++ developer so I hope I can find someone along the way to help me design the game.
While I'm alone I will focus on the engine.

Please make this game

Count on me!

Ambitious to produce what is essentially several games in one. Do you have any completed projects under your belt?

I have some projects done, but mainly commercial applications that are/were used inside our company (my job), this is a hobby, one I have wanted to make since I was a kid.
Most games get their ideas from other games, but this project won't be huge at first, I won't try to do everything at once and get myself lost on the process.
I will try to do it in parts, first the evolution part, as simple as it can be, then the master or orion 2 part, then if I finalize those two and they are decent I will start pouring other games ideas into it, one by one.
It will be a long and slow process, but I'm sure I can make it. While I have not released anything to the public, I've always tried to make games, ever since I learned pascal and made a text game from it in high school using only if and else.


Edit:

EDIT: Your logo is almost unreadable on that background, the 'orange' is extremely hard to make out. Also you spelled 'Kickstarter' incorrectly in your website menu.

Fixed the typo, I've tried a new logo, can you check if it looks better now?
Many thanks for the feedback!

 

[Zed]

Wow, sounds extremely ambitious. Good luck!
It will be challenging. Especially the A.I. will be a fucking nightmare to create (if you want to create a good one, which is essential for this kind of game).

 

[eugene2k]

If I use Qt Gui it sure won't look nice, but I'm using qml that uses opengl.

I haven't done anything in QML, but from what I saw, you'd basically have to develop your own engine with it. It's probably smarter to go with something like FIFE or Unity or the likes.

 

[tiagocc0]

Wow, sounds extremely ambitious. Good luck!
It will be challenging. Especially the A.I. will be a fucking nightmare to create (if you want to create a good one, which is essential for this kind of game).

It will be a great opportunity for me to learn A.I., I've always wanted to do so but never had so much inspiration as now.

I haven't done anything in QML, but from what I saw, you'd basically have to develop your own engine with it. It's probably smarter to go with something like FIFE or Unity or the likes.

I will use it for the UI, the game itself will be in C++.
It will be a turn based game so I don't think it will get that much complicated as having to use an already made engine. I don't have to worry about fps and animation if necessary is very simple to use in qml.

But if things do get complicated I will of course take a look at some engines.
I took a look at Unity and FIFE, I think Unity is overkill for a 2d turn based game and FIFE looks nice but I would have to fit my idea on the engine instead of fitting the engine on my idea.
So for now I think Qt fits quite nicely, I have some years of expertise using it with DBs to do heavy processing applications and if done properly the game will be playable in Windows, Linux and Mac OS X.

 

[Shemar]

Can you tell us more about the combat system?

I played the old MOO games to death (except the last one I think) and my major complaint about them was the very simplistic (compared to what my ideal TB spaceship combat should be) combat.

I have not voted yet, as the combat system is probably what would make or break the game for me.

 

[tiagocc0]

Can you tell us more about the combat system?

I played the old MOO games to death (except the last one I think) and my major complaint about them was the very simplistic (compared to what my ideal TB spaceship combat should be) combat.

I have not voted yet, as the combat system is probably what would make or break the game for me.

Sure, as for the second part of the game it will play the same as MOO2.
The combat at first will be just like what it was, very simplistic, you control every ship you have and it will be turn based combat. My idea is to first replicate what was already done and then try to improve from this point onward.

Imagine if you could go back now to MOO2 or MOO and change/improve it's combat system.
What would you do?
What would you change?
What would you maintain?
What made it great at the early game but spoiled it at the later game?
What made it great at the later game but spoiled it at the early game?
These are the kind of questions I'm asking myself and I want everyone else to ask themselves too.

I would love to get my hands on MOO2 source code because I want to improve it, I want to overcome the flaws.
For MOO2 I think it was great at first because you didn't have too much planets, ships to take care of, but as you get a bigger empire at the later game the micromanagement kills most of the fun.
A lot of games that came after MOO2 tried to improve it by getting a lot of micromanagement out of the game, that's fine for a length game, but it then get's boring at the early game.

My 2 cents would be to have two options, like in Harvest Moon, I know this is a totally different game but let me tell about how it manages to overcome this issue.

At first you have some tools that help you at farming, you have a tool to water plants, a tool to cut wood, a tool to break stones.
The Watering Can would work just one tile in the beginning. If you improve it once it will work 3 tiles, then 6 tiles, then 9 tiles and finally 15 tiles!
The Axe would require you to chop a tree 6 times, at the end it requires just one chop, the same goes to the hammer. You see? At first you spend a lot of time doing something, but you have a small farm and it works well.
After some time playing your farm starts to get bigger and you need to spend resources getting better tools, after you max everything the game feels like a breeze, it really get a lot easier to play without making you feel like you are cheating, and I think this is the feeling I want to achieve here.

At first it will probably play just like MOO2, because at the early game it plays great that way, then with a technology or something like that you will be able to overcome this micromanagement, your race will improve to the point where it will be easy to have a great number of ships at the same time. Something you won't be able to do at first because it would be too much trouble and not because the game does not let you have a bigger fleet.

In Harvest Moon, even though you have maxed your Watering Can you still can use it to work just one tile, or 3, or 9. You see? You will still be able to micromanage if you want. There are people that just love moving one ship at a time even when they have 100 ships.
My father plays a lot of Panzer General games, and plays it since I was a kid, I'm 27 now and he still plays it (the older versions), you know those big maps and you have to move everything, one at a time.

But I will have to think exactly how to make it easier to play at the later game. I'm open to suggestions!

 

[Destroid]

Yep, logo looks much better now. With regard to MoO2, the absolute worst aspect of that game is late game combats where it takes an extremely long time to play them out. The over 9000 building options you end up with is also a pain when building new colonies. But despite it's flaws it's still my favourite 4x.

 

[tiagocc0]

Yep, logo looks much better now.

Great, thanks!

With regard to MoO2, the absolute worst aspect of that game is late game combats where it takes an extremely long time to play them out. The over 9000 building options you end up with is also a pain when building new colonies. But despite it's flaws it's still my favourite 4x.

Exactly, my quest is to find a way to maintain the game as it is for the most part and change it so the late game becomes more enjoyable.

A quick fix for building would be to set Templates, like:
1. Build a Hydroponic Farm
2. Build a Biosphere
3. Weather Controller
While skipping what is already built.
Then we could set it to apply to all new colonies or to whatever combination of colonies we want, so we could change from one template to another.
We could make it more useful by letting it apply rules like:
Just use template A for small tundra worlds or small worlds worse than tundra.
Just use template B for rich planets whatever its size is.
Just use template C on new colonies and then change it based on the planet's type and size.

What do you think?

For combat I'm still thinking about it, but I don't want AI to control our own ships as I think this is only a good solution if you want the combat to finish faster. Like if you want it fast you're gonna have to pay the price.

 

[Jack]

This thing looks like a buttplug and your main menu seems to be designed by a colorblind monkey. The second screen is however quite good, I especially like the galaxy size selector, it really is quite clever. As for the planned content (i.e. game mechanics) I do like what I hear, but it seems overly ambitious. Making a game as good as MOO2 would in itself pose a daunting task for many game developers, doing what it did and improve upon it and add elements to it won't exactly be a walk in the park. I wish you luck, you'll need it where you're going. Call me when you've got something playable.

 

[Destroid]

MoO escaped the problem by grouping like ships into stacks that were all activated at once, and having a low (I think 6?) limit on the types of ships allowed in a single fleet. Some weapons were more effective against doomstacks of small ships (hit every ship in the stack for low damage) while other weapons were better for hitting capital ships. Overall, MoO plays like a really streamlined MoO2, with most things handled by sliders, where MoO2 uses discrete buildings and investment.

For the colonies - perhaps you could do something like say 'build lvl3 factory' and the colony will automatically build the intermediate steps. This will allow you to get the cheap factory up and running on a new colony fast, but also allow less micro ordering the colony to build automated factory, robotic miners, deep core mine etc. There are a few building types that have levels like this (faming, pollution, industry, tech), so abstracting the 4+ different buildings they each have (you could still name/describe them for flavour) would remove a lot of clutter, and allow more space for 'special' buildings.

 

[tiagocc0]

This thing looks like a buttplug and your main menu seems to be designed by a colorblind monkey.

Noted. I will try to improve it as soon as I can.
Now I won't be able to get the buttplug association out of my mind so this change is a must.

The second screen is however quite good, I especially like the galaxy size selector, it really is quite clever.

Thanks!

As for the planned content (i.e. game mechanics) I do like what I hear, but it seems overly ambitious. Making a game as good as MOO2 would in itself pose a daunting task for many game developers, doing what it did and improve upon it and add elements to it won't exactly be a walk in the park. I wish you luck, you'll need it where you're going. Call me when you've got something playable.

It's more like since I played MOO2 I've been waiting for a better game to come along, you know how much we all have been waiting, it's like we have some good 4X space games but just one or two aspect of them make them great and unique but at the same time all the other aspects are utterly crap.

Companies want to make a game better than MOO2 but they start saying "I want a game to surpass MOO2 but it can't be like MOO2 or it will look like rip off, we have to start from ground up, we will make our game unique so it will start a new trend just like MOO2 started one and it will be original".

And when I think about it I think they are being more ambitious than me because they are throwing almost every aspect that made MOO2 great to try to make their own, it just a lot harder to be original and at the same time better. I can't blame people for trying to make original games, for god's sake those who try to make original games should go to heaven just from trying because of sheer volume of rip offs we see nowadays (first person shooters anyone?).
But I don't see a single company trying to make a game very much like MOO2.

It sure won't be a walk in the park but if I set my bar lower the only thing I get is a game that won't be as good as MOO2, if I set my bar higher I may make a crap game or maybe, just maybe make something enjoyable that may surpass MOO2, at least in one aspect or the other.

Anyway thanks! I will sure contact you as soon as I get it playable.

MoO escaped the problem by grouping like ships into stacks that were all activated at once, and having a low (I think 6?) limit on the types of ships allowed in a single fleet. Some weapons were more effective against doomstacks of small ships (hit every ship in the stack for low damage) while other weapons were better for hitting capital ships. Overall, MoO plays like a really streamlined MoO2, with most things handled by sliders, where MoO2 uses discrete buildings and investment.

I'm not saying the MOO design is bad, but just something that I think is overly simplified, I liked MOO2 better because for me I think MOO tried to overcome the micromanagement issue by make the game play with ship stacks, and it's like that the entire game, you can't micromanage if you want. What if the game started as MOO2 and then by researching a technology and/or having a trait in the later game you would be able to stack ships?

For the colonies - perhaps you could do something like say 'build lvl3 factory' and the colony will automatically build the intermediate steps. This will allow you to get the cheap factory up and running on a new colony fast, but also allow less micro ordering the colony to build automated factory, robotic miners, deep core mine etc. There are a few building types that have levels like this (faming, pollution, industry, tech), so abstracting the 4+ different buildings they each have (you could still name/describe them for flavour) would remove a lot of clutter, and allow more space for 'special' buildings.

That's a great idea, thanks and noted!

 

[Shemar]

Imagine if you could go back now to MOO2 or MOO and change/improve it's combat system.
What would you do?

The game is way too old for me to remember details but what I would want to see:
- Power management between speed-manouvering/shields and weapons (also applies to ship building considerations)
- Weapon ranges and firing arcs
- Different offensive/defensive types (different types of weapons have different penetration against different types of shields/armor)
- Much bigger battlefiled, hex based
- Detailed damage of ships rather than just HP where at 1/1000 HP a ship is still 100% functional
- Each individual ship represented rather than stacks of similar ships (not sure if MOO was one of the games that do that).
- A combat system where ship size, manouverability and role specialization matter, rather than one where you just pack the biggest guns on the biggest ship you can.

Yes, I know I am asking for too much...

 

[tiagocc0]

The game is way too old for me to remember details but what I would want to see:
- Power management between speed-maneuvering/shields and weapons (also applies to ship building considerations)

Could you please elaborate more?
I can see it like you would change your power from weapons to shield or engines or any possible combination of the three.
I think Star Trek: Starfleet Command have a very nice system like that, but I remember most weapons would take quite a while to recharge and the game would take ages to finish a battle. I would often charge all my weapons then change my power to the engines and focus my shield to the front of the ship, it was quite nice. I like this idea.

- Weapon ranges and firing arcs

MOO2 had these, small arcs were cheap while 360 weapons were really expensive, you could make a fast ship that would go behind the enemy so it would lose a turn or two just turning the ship to fire at you, but missiles were always 360.

- Different offensive/defensive types (different types of weapons have different penetration against different types of shields/armor)

This is nice but I want to avoid the paper, rock and scissor approach, it becomes too obvious.
MOO2 was quite decent at this, they had weapons that were great against shields, armor, structure and even weapons that would kill the marines inside the ship.

- Much bigger battlefield, hex based

That's quite possible.

- Detailed damage of ships rather than just HP where at 1/1000 HP a ship is still 100% functional

That's a very good idea, this together with a way to customize the ship piece by piece like in Gratuitous Space Battle would be great!

- Each individual ship represented rather than stacks of similar ships (not sure if MOO was one of the games that do that).

Yes, I plan on avoiding this approach as this kills micromanagement, maybe at the later part of the game, after researching an expensive technology you would be able to form fleets were they would stack together to represent a very organized group of ships, but I'm still thinking about it.
This would help in the case where you have hundreds of ships and you have to control everyone of them.

- A combat system where ship size, maneuverability and role specialization matter, rather than one where you just pack the biggest guns on the biggest ship you can.

No problem, I like this concept, but I don't like games where you have to build a ship to improve the fleet overall shield performance, then one ship to improve the speed, then one ship to do something else. This becomes boring very fast.
If there are several types of ships that vary in size and type they will all be used for combat purposes.

Yes, I know I am asking for too much...

If you ask me to do all of this in 3D, then you will be asking for too much, :D


I was thinking, maybe I could skip some steps in the development process and try to create what would be the tactical combat for ships. I could make a ship editor, a weapon editor and a component editor, all very simple, so we could use them in a simple application were we would test the tactical combat.
I would just need to define the basic aspects like engine, shield and weapons, then movement and attack. After that we would just tweak the values.
As we test it we could go on and try to implement more things like marines and ways to capture a ship, ways to fire at a chosen component of a ship and so on.
What do you think, would you like to test it?

 

[shihonage]

All I see is a metric ton of ambition without even a simplest indication of any gameplay going on.

Did I miss something?

 

[tiagocc0]

All I see is a metric ton of ambition without even a simplest indication of any gameplay going on.

Did I miss something?

No, you're quite right. Sorry about that.
You can check this project again in a few months, but I hope it will be earlier, so you can check out the gameplay.

 

[Excidium]

Looks very ambitious, but full of great ideas.

Always good to see a programmer interested in game development that doesn't involve bejeweled clones and other simple cellphone games.