State of the RPG Genre

[SimpleComplexity]

12.09.2003 GoldenLand was released in Russia, Ukraine and other exsoviet territories. So, today we are working on the localization of the title. Stay tuned and we'll announce the release dates for other countries as soon as possible

So, is there a english version?

Also in comparison with this:

After I'll finish my dimploma and graduate which happens late June, I may work on translation.

 

[The_Pope]

Carmack has gone from ripping on Bill Gates to sucking up to the xbox, of all things. He is dead to me. Go fly your rocket ships, sell out.

It is probably just the PC v console argument rather than an RPG argument, IMHO. Everything is getting dumbed down, not just our RPGs. FPS games are made for the console now, they are trying to move RTS to the console, ect.

I think he just lost interest in gaming. MS help fund his new, more expensive hobby and he says their shitty toy is good.

As for the fate of PC gaming, I predict a resurgence as soon as MS decide to stop wasting money on the xbox, which consistently lost money ever since they came up with the idea. I doubt they're doing it as a charity for retards, so it's going to stop eventually.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

I sure have hope for the RPG-genre. There are so many of us who want good rpgs, that some of us are bound to make them. There are more promising indie RPGs in development than non-indie. As I'm not an ADD console kiddie I have the patience to wait for them to release them "when they're done" too. In the mean time I play old gems I've missed, and replay old favorites. I can understand the the discontent amongst the 30+ year olds on this board, who played them all when they came out. But half of the people complaining in this thread should STFU and go visit some abanodonware sites.

 

[OsirisGod]

There is a new general direction in mass-produced goods to make them shitier quality wise and a bit better looking , i think the whole point is to make a products life span as short as they can , and i am not talking about pc games or console games only , i mean cloths and all other consumer products seem to be made with a lower quality standard in mind. I guess everyone is going for faster production time and higher yearly profits , this is bad for consumer but also opens the market to small producers that are willing to deliver what the big guys won't bother with anymore , high quality , specialised for a certain market section products.

 

[hakuroshi]

I would not put too much hope for russian developers. They are not much likely to do a good rpg then anyone else.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

I would not put too much hope for russian developers. They are not much likely to do a good rpg then anyone else.

We shouldn't put any hope in Russian developers because no one, including Russians, are likely to make good RPGs?

 

[Krafter]

I can understand the the discontent amongst the 30+ year olds on this board, who played them all when they came out.

I'm 34, and this is exactly right. We get a few RPG releases a year, and that's it. I purposely delay playing games now, so I feel like I still have something to look forward to. Ugh.

Pope, even if MS stopped the xbox (and that's a very big if) they would simply try to turn PC gaming into xbox gaming and ruin it anyway. Their "Games for Windows! LOL!" thingy is a complete joke. Windows LIVE, DX10 only games, pop-up achievements and mandatory dumbed-down controls? I'll pass.

 

[denizsi]

Hasn't Carmack stated that he would quit making game engines after Quake 3, and then again after Doom 3? He had some space projects going on and he's said he would leave the gaming industry to focus completely on that area. Money?

Pope, even if MS stopped the xbox (and that's a very big if) they would simply try to turn PC gaming into xbox gaming and ruin it anyway. Their "Games for Windows! LOL!" thingy is a complete joke. Windows LIVE, DX10 only games, pop-up achievements and mandatory dumbed-down controls? I'll pass.

Also, an ex major MS developer has told how nerfed DX10 is and what a lie the whole "gaming features" in Vista is. They really will try to turn PCs into "XBOX advanced"s.

 

[The_Pope]

Pope, even if MS stopped the xbox (and that's a very big if) they would simply try to turn PC gaming into xbox gaming and ruin it anyway. Their "Games for Windows! LOL!" thingy is a complete joke. Windows LIVE, DX10 only games, pop-up achievements and mandatory dumbed-down controls? I'll pass.

This is what really frightens me. It's far more likely than PC gaming dying, and far worse.

 

[Krafter]

Yep, it's not that far-fetched. MS wants to turn PC gaming into a closed-source console situation, one in which they are in control, of course. They'll turn it into made for ADD 13 year olds gaming, and the only Mature-rated games we will ever see would be an occasional shooter whose developers have the balls to put actual red blood in. The horror.

Seriously, look at what these clowns have turned Shadowrun into. That is their vision for the future, it's as bad as I am making it out to be.

I am never buying a "Games for Windows" game, ever. I seriously doubt big hitters like Valve and Blizzard will use the branding, though you know Bioware and others will roll over for them.

 

[inwoker]

Actually i just wrote communists to get some answers from russians, who felt to defend themselves. it worked. :masterplan:

Hm, provocation worked!...
)))

Also, do you know about some RPG called Goldenland or something?

Heard about it. Disn't play it, but read a lot of reviews on opinions. Very poor game. 99% fed-ex quests, bad dialogs.... .Yes it's rpg, but worse than obliv.... Ooo no that cannot be.

 

[inwoker]

Dungeon Cleaners looks very Fallout-y. I don`t think its fair to say, that Dungeon Cleaners is untranslatable, only because of the culture differences or some other things, which you mentioned. Fallout was also very american, but still it managed to be very popular in countries all over the world just like Simpsons, because of the translation.

The difference is only that you western people know a little about us(you didn't read our books, didn't watch our films, a little percent of you actually realize how to live here, all you belive that you know maximum truth because you read newspapers. I speaked to lot of americans which visited us in business and they all said that was shoked how reality diff. from notion) in comparison to us. We read a lot of american sf-books, your hollywood movies since 1997-98 and till recently was the only that showed in cinemas(I mean only mainstream) and so on. It's only imho.



A english translation could make this game much more popular, i dont even know, if russians want to make that game more popular, most of them like to keep their goodies for themselves.

Hm, why do you think so?

Soon I'll translate a part and show you. If codexers will like it I'll continue. If won't I'll continue...
)

 

[FrancoTAU]

Well, 1C signed a deal with Atari to publish/translate Russian RPGs. Battle Lords looks interesting but after that I don't know. I heard the Goldenlands are supposed to be pretty bad.

 

[cutterjohn]

I am russian communist (I'm from Ukraine, but that doesn't matter). You think that there are some good rpgs in russian language or know that? Because so far I know only one rpg in russian language - "Dungeon Cleaners". All others are not really rpg. If I am not right and here are other russian communists, please correct. Speaking of "Dungeon Cleaners": It's very specifical game even for our countries and there are a lot of untraslatable things, humor and stuff. No, we can translate them, but you'll not understand tham as intended. If anybody interested in this PM to me please. After I'll finish my dimploma and graduate which happens late June, I may work on translation. But I need somebody from USA, Canada or Europe to help me.

IIRC Battlelords sounded good with TB goodness and all...

Action:
Some genres just are NOT meant to be action games, e.g. strategy and CRPGs, while others are, e.g. side and top down scrolling shooters, platformers, FPS, etc.

 

[SimpleComplexity]

Soon I'll translate a part and show you. If codexers will like it I'll continue. If won't I'll continue...
)

Well, we`d probably know more about the culture, if more things would be translated in english. Anyways, good that you want to translate some parts, you should open another thread for this or the admins should open a extra Codex Forum section for this game?(maybe later) I dont know if you were/are part of the devteam from Dungeon Cleaners, but you should contact them or are you planning a english mod-thing? Here are enough native english speaking guys i guess, not me, tough.

 

[Section8]

Correct me if I'm wrong section8, but the way I've always understood it is that Carmack merely desgins the engines. He had little to no part in making Doom 3 the crapfest it is, he just made a really advanced game engine and (appropriately) hyped the hell out of it in interviews. I don't recall him once trying to hype Doom 3's gameplay because it wasn't his department.

You're exactly right, and that's the problem. He's a (former) high-profile, well respected pillar of the development community, who has fuck all to do with any form of gameplay. There was a time when it seemed every developer wanted to be keeping up with Carmack. Who was ever trying to keep up with Molyneux, before he got on the crack?

Carmack led, the industry followed, and look at where it got us.

 

[BigWeather]

Correct me if I'm wrong section8, but the way I've always understood it is that Carmack merely desgins the engines. He had little to no part in making Doom 3 the crapfest it is, he just made a really advanced game engine and (appropriately) hyped the hell out of it in interviews. I don't recall him once trying to hype Doom 3's gameplay because it wasn't his department.

You're exactly right, and that's the problem. He's a (former) high-profile, well respected pillar of the development community, who has fuck all to do with any form of gameplay. There was a time when it seemed every developer wanted to be keeping up with Carmack. Who was ever trying to keep up with Molyneux, before he got on the crack?

Carmack led, the industry followed, and look at where it got us.

The problem is that it is much easier to chase the engine guys than the gameplay guys (Sid Meier, Peter Molyneux, Will Wright) because you can benchmark graphics (and sound, I suppose, if anyone was really obsessing over that) but you can't benchmark fun and innovative gameplay.

And while Molyneux may seem out in left field his heart still seems to be in the right place and I think we'll see something out of him yet, if not in Fable 2 then beyond. Yeah he often reaches and falls way, way, way short (and all the while hyping it up so that the fall is particularly spectacular) but at least we've got a few commercial developers that are trying to push the boundaries a little bit rather than just make the next Oblivion.

 

[Goliath]

IMO I think the only hope are Western indy developers. Like Spiderweb (US), Vault Dweller's team (US/Canada?), The guy behind Teutogar (Germany), ...

All the RPGs from Eastern Europe seem to be 3D action RPGs. They all want to be the next Oblivion or Gothic. They do not want to be indy. I think the dream of the people behind games like "The Witcher" is to be bought/hired by some big American corporation to make the next mainstream hit.

 

[Goliath]

The difference is only that you western people know a little about us(you didn't read our books, didn't watch our films, a little percent of you actually realize how to live here, all you belive that you know maximum truth because you read newspapers. I speaked to lot of americans which visited us in business and they all said that was shoked how reality diff. from notion) in comparison to us. We read a lot of american sf-books, your hollywood movies since 1997-98 and till recently was the only that showed in cinemas(I mean only mainstream) and so on. It's only imho.

I agree. Translating US games is easy, because most people in Europe are very familiar with American culture. Most TV shows in Germany are just translated American shows for example. It is quite shameful actually. People would get a reference to Paris Hilton, but they certainly wouldn't get a reference to an infamous Russian mafia killer. You could not even translate this by replacing the reference with a reference to a local infamous mafia killer. There are no infamous mafia killers in Germany for example (we still have some law and order here).

 

[inwoker]

The difference is only that you western people know a little about us(you didn't read our books, didn't watch our films, a little percent of you actually realize how to live here, all you belive that you know maximum truth because you read newspapers. I speaked to lot of americans which visited us in business and they all said that was shoked how reality diff. from notion) in comparison to us. We read a lot of american sf-books, your hollywood movies since 1997-98 and till recently was the only that showed in cinemas(I mean only mainstream) and so on. It's only imho.

I agree. Translating US games is easy, because most people in Europe are very familiar with American culture. Most TV shows in Germany are just translated American shows for example. It is quite shameful actually. People would get a reference to Paris Hilton, but they certainly wouldn't get a reference to an infamous Russian mafia killer. You could not even translate this by replacing the reference with a reference to a local infamous mafia killer. There are no infamous mafia killers in Germany for example (we still have some law and order here).

hm....
We have some law and order too. And there is no infamous mafia killer. )
But that's offtop.

I can't translate some references to old russian comedy films, some abuses, some ....aaaa.... wing frazes( the fraze from some film, book, speech that became popular due to different reasons)

 

[SimpleComplexity]

Of course you can translate it, this is the Codex. We want the references, no matter if we understand them or not. In times of google and wikipedia it won`t be hard to find it out. Just like Fallout had references to movies, which i never watched, but there is always a possibility to rewatch or get some information about them. So please keep it.

 

[Annonchinil]

Combat Mission: Shock Force is being released soon and there have been plenty of great war games released in RT,TB, WEGO, RTwP and in whatever else combat system you can think of. So how come no (very few?) RPG developers exist to target us as a smaller market? Are we less likely to buy a game with the same engine, graphics and mechanics but in a different setting than war gamers? Maybe its because there are so many different aspects of war (naval, air, ground etc.) set in so many different periods (modern, American civil war, Napoleonic) that each game ends up feeling differently.

Troika could have done it, but failed miserably by trying to be mainstream. Although now with increased electronic sales I think the chances are even higher for success. TBHG being a BG-like clone has that chance to fire up this market.

 

[hakuroshi]

We shouldn't put any hope in Russian developers because no one, including Russians, are likely to make good RPGs?

Not ANY hope, just no more then in others, including indies. They are no better, probably worse. So far all russian rpgs sucked.

copx have said correctly about them.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

Not ANY hope, just no more then in others, including indies. They are no better, probably worse. So far all russian rpgs sucked.

copx have said correctly about them.

We shouldn't put more hope in indie developers because no one, including indie-developers and Russians, are likely to make good RPGs?

 

[JarlFrank]

Not ANY hope, just no more then in others, including indies. They are no better, probably worse. So far all russian rpgs sucked.

copx have said correctly about them.

We shouldn't put more hope in indie developers because no one, including indie-developers and Russians, are likely to make good RPGs?

There's still the Poles.