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Stormgate - sci-fi/fantasy RTS from ex-Blizzard devs

hello friend

Arcane
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I'm on an actual spaceship. No joke.
Idno where you draw the line with regard to what's magic and what's not, but I found the idea of a telepathic near hive mind having a splinter faction cutting themselves off and plumbing the secrets of cosmos to be pretty fun. The Protoss become a lot less interesting if they're just another race of space communists.
 

RaggleFraggle

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hahaha that's amazing

the cerebrate ecosystem were one of the coolest things about the zerg
I thought so too. The way it was described in the manual as each brood hyperspecializing for particular directives sounded amazing to child me (even if the gameplay didn't reflect that at all), and I still think it holds up reasonably well today. Ditching that in favor of generalist homogenous interchangeable queens feels like a huge waste IMO. We've already seen queens competing for control, it's a well trod scifi trope. Even the 2000s RTS Conquest: Frontier Wars did it before SC2 did. Numerous subsidiary swarms hyperspecialized for their tasks was a novelty then and still is now. In fact, I think it's more advanced than the competing queens.

Ironically, they did that idea before GW decided to have tyranid hivefleets develop unique bonuses based on their environments. So GW was stealing just as many ideas from SC as vice versa. Hypocrites

Idno where you draw the line with regard to what's magic and what's not, but I found the idea of a telepathic near hive mind having a splinter faction cutting themselves off and plumbing the secrets of cosmos to be pretty fun. The Protoss become a lot less interesting if they're just another race of space communists.
In theory, sure. I don't think the games executed this well. They could've been at least as interesting and complex as the vorlons and shadows from Babylon 5 (or what have you), but instead we got a generic evil church oppressing the poor space romani. It doesn't even fit its own lore: according to the backstory the rogue tribes nearly destroyed their homeworld and the taldarim are monsters who prove the Conclave's fears completely justified. Their backstory also had unused elements like the protoss having alien allies and client states who never show up in the games, but if they had then their feel would've been completely altered. Can you imagine? They'd be a bit like the Covenant from Halo, I guess.

There is just so much I wish Blizz had done differently.
 

hello friend

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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I'm on an actual spaceship. No joke.
Ditching that in favor of generalist homogenous interchangeable queens feels like a huge waste IMO. We've already seen queens competing for control, it's a well trod scifi trope.
There's also the position of the queens in the zerg psychic hierarchy. Pre-Kerrigan zerg went Overmind>Cerebrates>Overlords>everything else. Even if the Overmind and the Cerebrates are no more, and Kerrigan is somehow able to handle all of that on her own, the next rung in the ladder of psychic control is the overlords. Of all the solutions Blizzard could have gone with, they chose queens as the replacement for the cerebrates. It's like if Defilers suddenly went off and started their own broods. I know this is a nitpick when they shit all over the lore in many other ways, but it's also an example indicative of the generally sloppy attitude taken toward lore consistency.
 

RaggleFraggle

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Ditching that in favor of generalist homogenous interchangeable queens feels like a huge waste IMO. We've already seen queens competing for control, it's a well trod scifi trope.
There's also the position of the queens in the zerg psychic hierarchy. Pre-Kerrigan zerg went Overmind>Cerebrates>Overlords>everything else. Even if the Overmind and the Cerebrates are no more, and Kerrigan is somehow able to handle all of that on her own, the next rung in the ladder of psychic control is the overlords. Of all the solutions Blizzard could have gone with, they chose queens as the replacement for the cerebrates. It's like if Defilers suddenly went off and started their own broods. I know this is a nitpick when they shit all over the lore in many other ways, but it's also an example indicative of the generally sloppy attitude taken toward lore consistency.
That sloppy attitude has been there from the beginning. Take a gander at the original manual. It has many inconsistencies with both itself, the game script, and the battlenet strategy compendium.

Technically, queens were actually named in the lore as on the same rank as overlords but this wasn’t reflected in the final game. Originally the queens were a structure that produced eggs, but this was later changed to the hatchery. The fluff wasn’t updated to account for this, so the queen is still stated as overseeing larvae. This wasn’t rectified until SC2 where queens are now produced by the hatchery and do produce larvae, more akin to the initial pitch. Game development is like that.

Infesters could be on the same rank as queens and overlords, as they’re seen operating independently while infesting terran colonies and one short story depicts one speaking telepathically in a complete sentence.

Also, technically the leaders are not queens in SC2 but “brood mothers” with enhanced intelligence. Supposedly, but in practice they have no initiative until deinfested Kerry arrives and tells them what to do. In the comics, brood mother Niadra is an idiot savant who mindlessly follows her last order (“kill protoss”) with no introspection about why is doing so. Even in SC1, the cerebrates were aware of the “Grand Mission” and their place in it. BMs are a huge downgrade, just like QoB in episode 2.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
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Sounds like a typical cuck developer "We are very feedback driven. We appreaciate our fan's frankness!"

How about you chumps actually try to make what *you* want instead?
They want F2P (but not P2W) SC2 but with less hardcore UI
 
Last edited:

Daedalos

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Denmark
Ultra cucks like me desperately wants this game to be a spiritual Starcraft 3....which makes sense, because the team behind the game is essentially all Starcraft/Starcraft 2 developers from Blizzard.

I am on the fence about what little has been revealed so far. Artstyle is abit iffy, the unit design.. well.

I am filling my hopium tanks up, and see how long it will last.

Any RTS at this point, gets a ton of leeway, because nobody makes good rts anymore, hell, nobody makes ANY rts anymore.

And I do love my RTS games
 

whydoibother

Arcane
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Codex Year of the Donut
Ultra cucks like me desperately wants this game to be a spiritual Starcraft 3....which makes sense, because the team behind the game is essentially all Starcraft/Starcraft 2 developers from Blizzard.

I am on the fence about what little has been revealed so far. Artstyle is abit iffy, the unit design.. well.

I am filling my hopium tanks up, and see how long it will last.

Any RTS at this point, gets a ton of leeway, because nobody makes good rts anymore, hell, nobody makes ANY rts anymore.

And I do love my RTS games
I want it to be less gook-clicky, and all about APM, and more about macro strategy. And to have a fun singleplayer campaign and map editor.
 

Daedalos

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
5,557
Location
Denmark
Ultra cucks like me desperately wants this game to be a spiritual Starcraft 3....which makes sense, because the team behind the game is essentially all Starcraft/Starcraft 2 developers from Blizzard.

I am on the fence about what little has been revealed so far. Artstyle is abit iffy, the unit design.. well.

I am filling my hopium tanks up, and see how long it will last.

Any RTS at this point, gets a ton of leeway, because nobody makes good rts anymore, hell, nobody makes ANY rts anymore.

And I do love my RTS games
I want it to be less gook-clicky, and all about APM, and more about macro strategy. And to have a fun singleplayer campaign and map editor.
Sure I agree. Starcraft 2 was already a big step up in terms of casual play vs starcraft 1 tho. Alot of stuff in Starcraft 2, the pros hated, cos it was EZ to apm.
 

whydoibother

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
15,125
Location
bulgaristan
Codex Year of the Donut
Ultra cucks like me desperately wants this game to be a spiritual Starcraft 3....which makes sense, because the team behind the game is essentially all Starcraft/Starcraft 2 developers from Blizzard.

I am on the fence about what little has been revealed so far. Artstyle is abit iffy, the unit design.. well.

I am filling my hopium tanks up, and see how long it will last.

Any RTS at this point, gets a ton of leeway, because nobody makes good rts anymore, hell, nobody makes ANY rts anymore.

And I do love my RTS games
I want it to be less gook-clicky, and all about APM, and more about macro strategy. And to have a fun singleplayer campaign and map editor.
Sure I agree. Starcraft 2 was already a big step up in terms of casual play vs starcraft 1 tho. Alot of stuff in Starcraft 2, the pros hated, cos it was EZ to apm.
Some of it was, yeah. But then you'd play against some 16 year old Adderall junkie playing Zerg, who seems to individually issue commands to each zergling or baneling, and your boomer body would give up trying to compete.
 
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If this interview is anything to go by the goal is to make a less frustrating version of SCII. They're shooting for same feel of responsiveness while trying to simplify controls (automated control groups, quick macro panel) and lower lethality - something in between SC1 and Warcraft III. Also making terrain more important and less easy to subvert it. Quite a lot of things that I viewed as flaws in SC II were acknowledged here which does make me kinda hyped. Sure art style is probably gonna be shit, but I don't like SCII art style either yet still love the game.
 

Tavar

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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
I played a lot of SC2 during Wings of Liberty (usually 1on1 multiplayer) and I hated the bolted on APM mechanics (Larva/Tumor spawn as Zerg, mules as Terran and whatever this time speed ability of protoss was called). All were completely unfun and only included to make the game more hardcore which is bizarr given how difficult it is to play a perfect game against an equally matched opponent even without these time sinks. Hopefully they avoid this kind of shit in Stormgate.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,685
I played a lot of SC2 during Wings of Liberty (usually 1on1 multiplayer) and I hated the bolted on APM mechanics (Larva/Tumor spawn as Zerg, mules as Terran and whatever this time speed ability of protoss was called). All were completely unfun and only included to make the game more hardcore which is bizarr given how difficult it is to play a perfect game against an equally matched opponent even without these time sinks. Hopefully they avoid this kind of shit in Stormgate.
I guess this type of game is not for you, you can always play Age of Empires X if you are too slow for hard competitive games.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
If this interview is anything to go by the goal is to make a less frustrating version of SCII. They're shooting for same feel of responsiveness while trying to simplify controls (automated control groups, quick macro panel) and lower lethality - something in between SC1 and Warcraft III. Also making terrain more important and less easy to subvert it. Quite a lot of things that I viewed as flaws in SC II were acknowledged here which does make me kinda hyped. Sure art style is probably gonna be shit, but I don't like SCII art style either yet still love the game.
I am a bit doubtful. I don't really like playing competitive sc, but as I see it one of the big problems with sc2 from a pro perspective is that it's just way too easy to play, what with all the fancy perfect pathfinding and responsive units and smartcasting and what not. This lead to units and spells being less impactful, because you can't have sc1 storms in sc2 without completely breaking everything. And it also made "just create a huge blob of units" a dominant strategy, because of course it's good when 100 units control just as well as 10 units. I also always hated spawn larva ability from queens. Feels like a chore. Just let me autocast that shit.

But this is speaking more as a spectator: Watching sc1 is often fun, I never enjoyed watching sc2.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,685
If this interview is anything to go by the goal is to make a less frustrating version of SCII. They're shooting for same feel of responsiveness while trying to simplify controls (automated control groups, quick macro panel) and lower lethality - something in between SC1 and Warcraft III. Also making terrain more important and less easy to subvert it. Quite a lot of things that I viewed as flaws in SC II were acknowledged here which does make me kinda hyped. Sure art style is probably gonna be shit, but I don't like SCII art style either yet still love the game.
I am a bit doubtful. I don't really like playing competitive sc, but as I see it one of the big problems with sc2 from a pro perspective is that it's just way too easy to play, what with all the fancy perfect pathfinding and responsive units and smartcasting and what not. This lead to units and spells being less impactful, because you can't have sc1 storms in sc2 without completely breaking everything. And it also made "just create a huge blob of units" a dominant strategy, because of course it's good when 100 units control just as well as 10 units. I also always hated spawn larva ability from queens. Feels like a chore. Just let me autocast that shit.

But this is speaking more as a spectator: Watching sc1 is often fun, I never enjoyed watching sc2.
It also made Sc2 have a ton on units with abilities. Most units now have some ability you need to activate or manage.
 
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I am a bit doubtful. I don't really like playing competitive sc, but as I see it one of the big problems with sc2 from a pro perspective is that it's just way too easy to play, what with all the fancy perfect pathfinding and responsive units and smartcasting and what not.

I have no idea where the fuck this sort of bullshit is coming from, but nobody I know who plays SC2 thinks it's too easy to play, nor have I heard any pros express that opinion. The only peole who I heard say things like that are butthurt Broodwar fags who actually believe shit controls make a better game. I don't understand these people nor do I want to even try understanding them. Spells not impactful enough? Storms, fungals, parasitic bombs, emps, disruptor shots can be absolutely devastating in this game and turn around games that seem completely lost. If anything I would want them to be less impactful.
 

Tavar

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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
I played a lot of SC2 during Wings of Liberty (usually 1on1 multiplayer) and I hated the bolted on APM mechanics (Larva/Tumor spawn as Zerg, mules as Terran and whatever this time speed ability of protoss was called). All were completely unfun and only included to make the game more hardcore which is bizarr given how difficult it is to play a perfect game against an equally matched opponent even without these time sinks. Hopefully they avoid this kind of shit in Stormgate.
I guess this type of game is not for you, you can always play Age of Empires X if you are too slow for hard competitive games.
I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I don't mind that it is fast and hard/impossible to play perfectly. I just think that SC2 would have a high enough skill ceiling even without these pointless mechanics. It also felt to me that they just added these to compensate for the better interface. And just for the record: I hate Age of Empires and was a Diamond player back in the day.
 
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Mar 18, 2009
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Queueing up a bunch of larva injects with Shift so you don't have to worry about it for few minutes is really not that hard. Can't do that early game of course, but in early game you got plenty of time to do regular one by one injects. And if you can't manage to make more queens and spam injects later on you can always just put down macro hatcheries.
 

RaggleFraggle

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Well I only care about playing campaigns, so this is as good as dead to me.
F2P is unavoidable in today’s market. You can’t compete otherwise, especially with such a huge budget. Blame the industry for creating perverse incentives and indoctrinating consumers.
 

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