Indie Swords and Sorcery - Underworld: Definitive Edition

[RK47]

Another vote for a different font.

I like the keyboard shortcuts. I shouldn't be moving the mouse too much when combat options are clearly labeled with appropriate shortcut.

 

[Flatlander]

I also liked the keyboard shortcuts and didn't really miss a mousable interface. But maybe that's just because I'm already familiar with the old M&Ms.

One thing I'd like to have is the movement commands (additionally) mapped to i/j/k/l keys. It would be more comfortable to play when I could keep fingers on the home row all the time.

 

[Charles-cgr]

OK for the new font. IJKL an easy addition too. Thanks for your suggestions!

 

[quasimodo]

Liked the demo and just purchased the full game. A new font would be good.

 

[Charles-cgr]

Thanks for your support quasimodo

I mapped IJKL & changed the font. I'm almost done with some new content & a variety of fixes. V106 should be out in a few days, after testing.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Completed it.

A good game, but Charles, I think that you need to finetune the formula for the sequel.

In the endgame I became much too powerful to my liking. Some elements of the game are very unbalanced.

For example, my rogue with a scythe can use bleed. Bleed is perhaps the most game breaking ability I have seen in an RPG. If I hit the monster with it, it seems to double the damage dealt by my rogue, and not only that but the monster will lose that same amount of hit points at every round. Not only that but if I hit the monster with the bleed option again, the amount of hit points lost by the monster at every round will stack up infinitely. If you keep that ability for the sequel, its efficiency should be toned down dramatically.

This made all the powerful monsters a complete joke to deal with. That, combined with the fact that the wizard's fear/prison abilities were too efficient. It became laughably easy to simply paralyze any powerful monster and none of them could pretty much do anything to oppose me. Monsters, and especially the bosses, should have a lot more resistance to these spells.

The final pieces of loot were largely overpowered too. With the special bow, I had some 1600+ hit points per shot at times. The special armor and sword you got in the hellfire pit boosted the strenght of my fighters way too much.

I think you wanted to make pieces of awesome loot to reward the player for his perseverence and help him in the final battle, but exagerated to some extent. Yes I like having awesome loot, but I also like feeling like I'm always facing impossible odds.

My other main pet peeve with the game is that most areas felt empty and devoid of purpose, and the pacing was awkward on many occasions. Of course I know you're set out to make hommages to Might & Magic, where the story is kept as light as possible, and exploration is the real star. But even the MM games had more elements in the dungeons that helped not to make the exploration too monotonous: funny NPCs, columns/other stuff to inspect that contained information tangentially related to the plot... this just helps to make me care because I am continuously given some sense of purpose and incited to keep going forward. Yes there were some decent/funny encounters but I think there needs to be more meat.

With the last boss, I meet an NPC, and almost immediately get to meet him. Wasn't this a bit too anticlimatic? I would've loved a final dungeon from which I couldn't escape, which would be the ultimate test for my skills. Perhaps it should've went like this: NPC encounter, then the dungeon that was before it, and then the final boss.

In the first village there are many options to deal with the situation at hand, but afterwards the game seems to become much more linear. I would've enjoyed a better sense of freedom, although many of those dungeons were tense and quite good.

I think it's a good game but rough around the edges. It definitely shows a lot of promise. It might look like I'm harping on the negatives but overall I'm quite satisfied of my purchase.

I hope that for the sequel you'll be able to expand the scope, make the pacing better, make better lore, add a bit more life to the dungeons, and most of all, work on balancing the systems you've already set in place.

Other than that, rock on!

 

[Charles-cgr]

Hi HHR,

Thanks a lot for your feedback. It gave me a review of things I've thought about before, especially difficulty in the end.

Bleed as stacking DoT is intentional. My aim with the new character abilities was to add variety but also, and especially balance classes further. Up until v1.06 most of the damage was delt by the sorcerer. Now the rogue is potentially the highest damage dealer while the sorcerer still holds his own and has the added advantage of immobilization, transport spells & a variety of other things. The archer & knight find their place in their own ways as well.

My conclusion when I first thought this over was that toning down damage for the last stretch would only lead people to grind for a few more level ups and ultimately reach the same result.

So I decided to make that last stretch easy, given the player had found / earned the higher level armor / weaponry / misc & encountered all the story elements.

Of course this choice won't fit everyone's taste, but my analysis at the time was that the other choice wouldn't either so I stuck with this.

I like the idea of adding further content with a 4-5 story keep. This is something I'll consider for a free DLC - something I could release some ways into the development of the sequel.

Note that the sequel will be set in a larger world, including outdoor maps & therefore will allow for much less linear progression (Underworld becomes pretty linear once you've reached the elves). Something I'm thinking about is difficulty increasing in certain areas based on the number of days that have gone by, as opposed to matching the party's level, which is a concept I don't like because it doesn't have any realistic backing while time passing by allows opposing armies / mobs to grow & train.

About the feeling that Underworld could use more story-related content there were additions in v1.06 (presbitary, buried chests, the chronicles, the amulet quest). My feeling was that adding much more would mean giving too many town buildings & underground areas a purpose & remove a sense of reward for exploring and actually running into something. Also it could overbloat the story beyond the scope of the game, being as it is set in a relatively small, closed world. Since you started with v1.05 & ended with v1.06 it's possible that you missed some or all of the new stuff though.

Thanks for taking the time to write your impressions! It may seem like I'm trying to justify myself but I think we simply disagree on some points as applied to Underworld. Hopefully we'll be more in agreement for the next one as the ideas you suggested seem more applicable in a more open setting, imho.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

http://www.classicgamesremade.com/news

It looks like Charles is changing the graphics in the game. Perhaps it might incite some of the people who found it too painful to look at to give it a try.

 

[octavius]

Ah, that looks much better. Now it really looks like a modern version of MM2, at least based on that one screenshot.

 

[Zed]

I didn't mind the graphics at all... however the inconsistency was horrendous. I'd rather have a game look good, or like a turd, than have it looks good with a few turds in there, or like a turd with a few highlights.

 

[Mortmal]

See! Kick him enough , abuse him , insult his games and its art direction , many times, and he will finally make something decent . Thats a pretty good interface ,now he has to make a coherent bestiary that fit with it.

 

[Charles-cgr]

I just posted a quick progress report for Underworld Gold at http://www.olderbytes.com/early-2012-progress-report.html

In short things have been slowed down but good progress has been made. A couple pretty pictures and a new feature list:

Three new maps, 10 new monsters, many moar lewts, a double special attack for some mobs (greatly adding to the technical challenge of many encounters), new special attacks for others, much better end of game balance, new features enhancing gameplay (like setting game speed, (P)rotect replaces (B)lock…).​

And of course happy new year everyone, and long life to the new codex ​

 

[Charles-cgr]

I made significant additions to Underworld combat, involving tactical distance management.

http://www.olderbytes.com/combat-new-tactical-options.html

It is still open to discussion, if anyone has any suggestions.

Underworld Gold is currently scheduled for March. Hopefully by then it won't be rescheduled. I should also have a first post on the sequel, or soon thereafter.

Someday I shall finish this game for good.

 

[Charles-cgr]

OK here's me counter-attacking the Grimrock frenzy

I compiled a two-map demo (full game has 20). It isn't even officially released yet, but since this is a workshop I thought I could try a Codex 'come on, kick me in the teeth, you know I love it' exclusive.

I've been the only tester so far so please be lenient towards any bugs that may have outwitted me at this stage.

http://www.classicgamesremade.com/underworld/Underworld_Gold_Demo_Setup.exe

I'll probably wait until end of April for release. Going head-on with the Finnish looks like suicide. That said I may be French but I won't surrender. :D

 

[Morkar Left]

Maybe May is better when everyone has money again?

Will download tomorrow and check the demo this week.

 

[Charles-cgr]

End of April / early May... Same difference :D

Thanks Morkar!

 

[Jack]

Sweet, will download and try it out later today!

 

[Crooked Bee]

I'll give it a try one of these days. If I'm not mistaken, Elwro did a review of the earlier version, so I assume he'll want to give it a try too. Also, Zed maybe?

 

[Charles-cgr]

Zed's dead, baby.

Sorry, couldn't resist :D

Edit - I PMed Elwro, but didn't know Zed might have an interest. I'll just let people stumble in from the cold for now though. I still have quite a bit of polishing to do.

 

[Zed]

Charles-cgr yeah I'm interested. I'm dphanto on twitter by the way, in case you ever wondered who that might have been.

 

[Elwro]

I'd like to check this out, but I most likely won't be able to play it before the weekend, or even possibly later; sorry -- a lot of work and work-related trips.

 

[Charles-cgr]

Zed Yes, I was wondering.... Thanks for following BTW.

No worries Elwro, There's still plenty of time before release anyway. I'll likely wait for the first few "I'm done with Grimrock, now gotta wait 2 more years for a sequel, and I would have preferred TB". And bam!! :D

I heard people don't expect LoG to be a long game. That may actually be the best way to go...

 

[Elwro]

Just notice the LoG price! I forgot what you were asking for UW but the Finns seem really to be lowering the price bar.

 

[Charles-cgr]

Yes, being on Steam and Gog does that. I'll be reconsidering mine but I'll probably just end up stuck with prestigious exposure only and a low price to boot. I'm thinking about it though...

 

[commie]

Yes, being on Steam and Gog does that. I'll be reconsidering mine but I'll probably just end up stuck with prestigious exposure only and a low price to boot. I'm thinking about it though...

No, stick to your price. It's just a few bucks more. You're not going to be competing with similar sale numbers(due to graphics if nothing else) so unlike them you cannot sell at a lower price.

Thanks for the demo BTW, will check it out in about 5 minutes.