KickStarter System Shock 1 Remake by Nightdive Studios

[anvi]

The gameplay looks pretty faithful, but I hate the graphics. I think I'd rather just play the original again for the 10th time. It would be nice if there are graphics mods.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

Said it many times before but SS1 isn't a horror game. If people are getting the likes of Dead Space in their minds when they play this remake, the devs have totally fucked it up.

It'd be like remaking Half-Life but replacing the techno/industrial soundtrack with spooky creaking noises, making the player move really slow, replacing the stylised scientist and guard voice acting with "serious" performances of people sounding genuinely terrified and distraught (the SS1 remake has done with with the logs, iirc), and having the entire thing in dim lighting. That's just not what Half-Life is, it's got a strong sense of atmosphere and is occasionally quite tonally dark but it's not a survival horror game, it's a fast paced shooter tinged with a sense of humour, same for System Shock. The remake just seems to be a prolonged exercise in missing the point.

I suspect the devs went for this horror route since that's what SS2 did, and SS2 is the game that got on all the best game ever lists. Clearly System Shock 2 is what the devs intended the original to be! Its been a long time since I played the original, but I remember having a decent enough time with enemies and having plenty of resources, both things that seem to be at odds with what seems to be a survival horror-ish take on it.

Presentation is king.
Nobody wants to play some janky shit, that has shit audio experience, shit animation, shit story and worldbuilding and of course shit graphics.

So...instead of playing a game with all that, you'll play a game with janky shit that might have nice animations and graphics...but the same shit story and worldbuilding. Why are you even in this topic if you have such contempt for the original game? Its not suddenly going to turn into Candyland. No remake team is going to be talented enough to fix an awful story, and they shouldn't need to.
(assuming I even bought into the idea that the original game was complete shit, its from 1994, not 1984)

 

[Trithne]

Shock 2 isn't even a horror game. Just see all the posts in any thread about it talking about the MedSci1 music.

People remember it as being one because they used the sound propagation provided to them by Dark to good effect, and most people played it as Navy or OSA so every enemy was a threat for the first couple of decks, plus the body horror elements of the Many.

Play it as a marine or get past Hydro, it becomes an action game.

 

[JDR13]

Graphics and presentation matter for marketing and the hype cycle before release. Once you get you hands on the game and find out it's shit gameplay wise no fancy graphics will help it.

Also isn't it the very reason Raph Colantonio left Arkane? He said the industry is pushing for high fidelity and eye candy at the expense of everything else if I recall correctly.

Sure, *if* it's shit gameplay, but assuming it's not, those things matter.

Everything else being equal, I don't want to play something that looks like it was made 10 years ago.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Shock 2 isn't even a horror game. Just see all the posts in any thread about it talking about the MedSci1 music.

People remember it as being one because they used the sound propagation provided to them by Dark to good effect, and most people played it as Navy or OSA so every enemy was a threat for the first couple of decks, plus the body horror elements of the Many.

Play it as a marine or get past Hydro, it becomes an action game.

I'm sick of the idea that horror games need to be 100% scary and tense all the time, or that the only kinds of horror games are ‘survival horror’. If something's got weird creepy stuff in it, it's horror. Or action-horror or whatever you feel like calling it. Besides, SS2 is obviously leaning hard into its horror theming, which was already present in SS1 to an extent.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

SS2 was one of the scariest games I have played.

 

[kangaxx]

SS2 was one of the scariest games I have played.

Agreed, I first played it as a young teenager and I still haven't had a gaming experience close to it. Cracking game even by today's standards.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Everything else being equal, I don't want to play something that looks like it was made 10 years ago.

Why? What did happened to the graphics 10 years ago that is so terrible?

The problem here with the graphics of this remake is not the "years", or the old tech graphics, it is the art direction. The art style looks like a shallow rendition of the cyberpunk visuals of the '80s, with all neon lights and no substance. The visuals are also too dark to the point that it's ridiculous.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

This entire "whether SS is a horror game" thing is yet another case of revisionism and discussing pointless semantics. SS1 was very much considered a scary game when it released (as funny as it sounds when looking at its goofy graphics today), let alone SS2 where p. much every review mentioned it being pants-shitting experience and for a good reason. But hey, apparently game is not a horror when it has techno music or you can shoot enemies dead.

 

[gerey]

My main problem with the remake is that it didn't go far enough either way, but sits uncomfortably in a limbo of sorts. At the same time they changed too much, but also changed too little.

While I welcome the various QoL additions and the modern interface and control scheme, it's really not enough to justify the premium price tag they are asking for a game - especially if the other "draw" of the release is a dubious new art direction.

Good examples of remakes are the remakes of RE1 and RE2. With RE1 Capcom did a phenomenal job reimagining the mansion, characters and monsters, tightening up the gameplay, increasing the difficulty and adding a few new elements and quirks meant to catch old fans by surprise.

RE2R was a more radical departure, with a changed camera perspective, control scheme, gameplay mechanics, interface etc., as well as a more involved Mr. X in the form of a chaser enemy. Again, Capcom did a great job graphically upgrading the game, as well as adding or reworking aspects of the story. Admittedly, some aspects of the original were cut or truncated, but all-in-all the remake is well worth the entry price.

In the SS1 remake, they're trying to make the graphics look "retro" and "pixelated", which begs the question why they're even bothering - with the remakes of RE1 and RE2 Capcom really pushed the envelope in terms of graphical fidelity. Gameplaywise they seem to have added nothing of substance besides a few modern interface upgrades (grid inventory, quick bar), while removing a number of weapons and ammo types.

The maps also seem to be a 1:1 of the original. It would have been much preferable if they had opted to use the advances in graphics and hardware to bring the station to life.

SS1 is almost 30 years old now - back when it came out it was a revolutionary game ahead of its time, but nowadays it shows its age, and while I certainly enjoy playing it, it's clear how primitive it is in many ways. As a straight up shooter, it's not particularly good - enemy AI is almost nonexistent, the control scheme is clunky, the weapons feel samey - while as an im sim it's missing out on nearly 3 decades of iteration and evolution.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

it's really not enough to justify the premium price tag they are asking for a game

Many such cases with recent remakes and remasters of older games. And as long as people continue to buy them, this trend will continue.

 

[Morenatsu.]

SS1 is almost 30 years old now - back when it came out it was a revolutionary game ahead of its time, but nowadays it shows its age, and while I certainly enjoy playing it, it's clear how primitive it is in many ways. As a straight up shooter, it's not particularly good - enemy AI is almost nonexistent, the control scheme is clunky, the weapons feel samey - while as an im sim it's missing out on nearly 3 decades of iteration and evolution.

Evolution of what? SS1 is surpassed in some aspects by its direct successors, but all of those games are almost as old as it is.

 

[JDR13]

Everything else being equal, I don't want to play something that looks like it was made 10 years ago.

Why? What did happened to the graphics 10 years ago that is so terrible?

The problem here with the graphics of this remake is not the "years", or the old tech graphics, it is the art direction. The art style looks like a shallow rendition of the cyberpunk visuals of the '80s, with all neon lights and no substance. The visuals are also too dark to the point that it's ridiculous.

Graphics and art direction are two different things. I'm talking about graphics on a technical level.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I feel like ten years ago was around when graphics peaked and everything since then has been subject to diminishing returns. Correct me if I’m wrong

 

[Bad Sector]

I feel like ten years ago was around when graphics peaked and everything since then has been subject to diminishing returns. Correct me if I’m wrong

I still maintain that Half-Life 2's level of graphics is fine as far as realistic graphics goes, anything after that is making small improvements in the lighting equations, increasing fidelity (texture resolution, polycounts, etc), doing in realtime what was previously precalculated and making larger maps.

Not that i can't see the difference between HL2 and, say, the current Modern Warfare II (there is even a visible difference between HL2 and Crysis and the latter is way closer to HL2 than MWII), i just think the whole diminishing returns trip started around that time.

 

[†††]

Let me guess, you need MORE?

 

[Bad Sector]

Let me guess, you need MORE?

Was this a reply to my post? I haven't played Splinter Cell (that is the game in the shot, right?). I don't remember the game looking bad though (from shots and videos) and if anything i remember it having some neat visual effects.

 

[†††]

Was this a reply to my post?

No, I was memeing in general, aiming towards those who demand the latest graphics. I stopped giving a fuck about the latest advancements around that time of 2004-05.

 

[GhostCow]

Graphics can stop advancing once path tracing is feasible. After that I just care about higher resolutions until I can't see the pixels anymore

 

[rusty_shackleford]

for the people arguing graphics don't matter, I have a game for you

 

[Morenatsu.]

tbh older games had more realistic lighting. gloariose lightmapping

 

[kangaxx]

tbh older games had more realistic lighting. gloariose lightmapping

To my ears better sound propagation definitely. A lot of modern games seem to have real problems with sounds misleading you as to enemy placement etc. Not sure whether it's a hardware thing though? It seems sound cards are less common these days so maybe devs don't bother.

 

[JDR13]

for the people arguing graphics don't matter, I have a game for you

My God... that's nearly as ugly as your mom.

 

[AndyS]

This entire "whether SS is a horror game" thing is yet another case of revisionism and discussing pointless semantics. SS1 was very much considered a scary game when it released (as funny as it sounds when looking at its goofy graphics today), let alone SS2 where p. much every review mentioned it being pants-shitting experience and for a good reason. But hey, apparently game is not a horror when it has techno music or you can shoot enemies dead.

Yeah, before I played it, I always saw it promoted as an exceptionally scary game (this is like mid/late 90s), which struck me as odd because the graphics were so bright and colorful. Then I played it and it was indeed a pretty creepy game. I think what throws me about the remake's approach is that they seem to be going for more of a 1980s-ish dim, fucked up "used future" look, like Star Wars and Aliens, but the original game to me is more like 1970s cold sci-fi (2001, The Andromeda Strain, THX-1138, etc.). The halls are brightly lit and painted in rich, solid colors, which conceals a lot of sinister things going on behind.

 

[Semiurge]

I still have a fresh recollection of SS2 from 2-3 years ago when I played it for the first time, and I must say that despite the multiple jump scares from the "zombies" and droids, SS1 is the more intense game of the two. Even Thief 1-2 have a scarier atmosphere. I expected more from SS2, it wasn't bad but not like the masterpiece it's referred to either. I have stronger memories of Condemned.