Tales of Maj'Eyal

[Damned Registrations]

Rod of recall has 2 things required to work: it needs time to charge between uses (A few hundred turns I think? It has 1000 energy that needs to fill, but I think it recovers more than 1 per turn) and it doesn't recall you instantly, bu rather takes about 40 turns before it kicks in. It's just there so you don't have to walk back out of 8 levels of dungeons, isn't supposed to be an escape tool.

As for the online profile thing, I've had the same issue with the latest version. Doesn't seem to be a specific fix, I think the servers are just crappy, it logged me in eventually. Playing online doesn't add much, unless you really like listening to other people's chatter. Though the automatic searchable character mortem dumping is nice. (Keeps track of the live ones too actually.)

It definitely has a bit of a curve for finding out which areas are deathtraps at which levels for which characters. I recently lost a mid level character (about as far as I've gotten, I only play roguelike mode) because I went into an area I thought would be easy and got raped. Turns out the area is only easy if you're using stealth.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Performance is really really shitty for a game based on simple tiles.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah, it used to be even worse. I think the problem is all the floating numbers and spell effects are 3d objects. There was supposed to be some reason the engine being able to do that was a good thing, but fuck if I know. Aside from that, the AI might be heavier than the average roguelike, since I notice some slowdown on populated levels too. There's also a memory leak or something that causes performance issues during a long (2-3+ hours) session.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It definitely has a bit of a curve for finding out which areas are deathtraps at which levels for which characters. I recently lost a mid level character (about as far as I've gotten, I only play roguelike mode) because I went into an area I thought would be easy and got raped. Turns out the area is only easy if you're using stealth.

Well, it does help a little by displaying a message at the corner ("You stiffle a yawn", "You feel mildly anxious", etc. - but it's not absolute; it displayed "You feel deeply threatened" when I was walking around a town, because there was a neutral lvl.30 archmage waltzing around)

 

[Severian Silk]

Does the game use Action Points? Otherwise, what's the point of being turn-based? You can achieve the exact same thing with RTwAutoP. :/

 

[empi]

You played many roguelikes severian?

And yeah, trying this out seems much better than whatever shitty tome i played before. Starting to get a hang of the game, seems like good potential for an ADOM-like

 

[Mackerel]

Dragon Age the roguelike. So fucking boring.

 

[Noddy]

Dragon Age the roguelike. So fucking boring.

It really isn't designed to be played as a rougelike. To repetitive and the only challenging monsters being bosses kind of destroys the advantages of permadeath. Still fun to play through if you can get past it though, especially arena mode.

 

[Stasgard]

So, should I be running it on Adventure mode with the lives system then? I've been playing on Roguelike and it started of incredibly fun, but I ended up getting bored and going to play Crawl instead. I really want to like this game, but it just ends up reminding me how much better other Roguelikes are, and then I just go an play them.

 

[Noddy]

Yeah i'd recommend adventure mode. Takes out the hour of utter harmless intro areas..

 

[7hm]

Picked this up again and gave it my first real attempt at playing it.

It's fun, but it's a terrible roguelike. I've tried running it as a roguelike, but I think I'm going to switch to adventure mode.

(Lack of randomization, no item id, no food are all major negatives to me.)

It seems like it would make a pretty good engine for an oldschool CRPG (similar to geneforge or a 1-person exile) though.

 

[PorkaMorka]

I wasn't too impressed with TOME4 when this thread came out, or even back in June, but the Developer continued with frequent and significant upgrades.

The game definitely doesn't suck anymore and is IMHO worthy to assume a place in the top 5 roguelikes.

Features:
- High quality tileset. (with a serious art style)
- autoexplore
- paper dolls with visible inventory
- interface isn't terrible
- Relatively unique ability based gameplay - no hoarding consumables and no "just autoattack" class.
- Performance has significantly improved, although it is still not great.
- Locations are set up more like a traditional RPG, so you go to different locations on a world map instead of just descending in a single dungeon.
- Large amount of content.

Overall, I'm having more fun with this game than I did with any Roguelike except Crawl, it is still up in the air as to whether I will like Crawl or TOME4 better.

It has some weaknesses like lower replayability due to certain non random aspects, but I'd recommend a few games if you like roguelikes.

 

[Berekän]

PorkaMorka, could you explain what does that "autoexplore" exactly means?

 

[PorkaMorka]

In games with autoexplore (DC:SS and TOME4) you press a button and your character will automatically walk around removing the fog of war from the map. He will stop when he sees a monster, when he sees an interesting terrain feature or he is done exploring the level. He may or may not also autopickup loot, depending on the game, the loot and your settings.

This automates a tedious repetitive task (clearing every last bit of fog) and saves you from carpal tunnel syndrome as you explore hundreds of dungeon levels over time. It also lets you get to the interesting parts of the game faster.

Note that you will want to use it sparingly in the more deadly areas, but it is great for less threatening zones. So it is hard to come up with a downside to it; in the areas where exploration actually contains meaningful gameplay you won't be using it.

 

[Berekän]

I see, kind of what I thought. I guess I'll have to try it myself but right now I have mixed feelings about that. In one hand I'm of the crowd that gets quickly bored when doing repetitive task (in this case, exploring every tile out there) but on the other hand I think this could take some of the charm or even the challenge of the game. Does it trigger traps and such? I don't see how it could be implemented without having any advantages or. disadvantages

 

[PorkaMorka]

It does trigger traps, unless you have the skills to detect them. It's not necessarily something I would want to see in a proper CRPG, but considering how much time you can spend manually exploring featureless dungeon corridors in roguelikes, I feel it is a godsend for that subgenre.

 

[MisterStone]

I see, kind of what I thought. I guess I'll have to try it myself but right now I have mixed feelings about that. In one hand I'm of the crowd that gets quickly bored when doing repetitive task (in this case, exploring every tile out there) but on the other hand I think this could take some of the charm or even the challenge of the game. Does it trigger traps and such? I don't see how it could be implemented without having any advantages or. disadvantages

Dude I was totally with you a couple of years ago, but then I tried out the newer versions of Dungeon Crawl that have auto-explore. It really does make the game much better, less tedious, faster-moving and thus more fun. Any similar game that has long empty tunnels could benefit from this. I don't think it really removes any challenge from the game, except for the kind of tedious challenge that does not at all contribute to the fun factor. I don't know how it would work in another game, but in DCSS it's pretty damn great.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah, it's not sure a big deal for something like Nethack or ADOM, where dungeons are largely corridor + room sets and easy to explore, but for big open levels like Crawl and ToME4 have, it's a godsend.

How much of the game have you unlocked btw? I'm still missing a few classes, but I've got most of the classes and skill trees, and I think all the alternate modes. Though I still get raped before ever going east. I should probably just abandon my pride and play on normal difficulty, and play roguelike when I'm more familiar with the game.

 

[Monstrous Bat]

Played this several months ago but eventually quit because it's too boring. Going through the same dungeons in the same sequence gets old fast. ADOM had the same problem but this game is 100 times worse. It sucks as a RPG and sucks even more as a roguelike.

 

[betamin]

The biggest problem I've seen is stairscumming. The fact that you can beat up a boss, go up the stairs, heal and go down and finish the job because the bosses don't regenerate when you're off the level is RETARDED. Killed most of the (ideal, the gameplay is pretty good actually) fun for me.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I think thats either been fixed or planned to be fixed.

 

[MisterStone]

I dunno bros, I played this for maybe half an hour or so, but I found all of the various activated thingamabobs and elaborate talent trees to be quite a turnoff. I mean, it just seems a bit too complicated and often the skills appear to be redundant as well. I think I'd like the game better if they simplified this shit a bit...

Also, the 'activate my magical tatoo to automatically regen hit points' dynamic is kind of weak. I guess I am a bit old school in this regard, but it sort of smacks of the whole 'press button to be healed immediately!' console gameplay.

Regardless, my critique is of the _game_ ToME; the engine is pretty damn badass, and I hope people make some sweet roguelikes with it. Or perhaps ToME will become more refined and in the future.

 

[Damned Registrations]

My feelings on the infusion/rune system are kind of mixed. On one hand, it lets the player have some sort of class independent (most, some classes/races get fucked out of proper healing) way to heal or do other utility things, without allowing abusive potion/scroll hoarding to trivialize anything you can solve with gold. But on the other hand, the fluff of it doesn't sit well with me. Though another advantage is that enemies get to use them too, which is pretty cool. There's also some significant planning to be had when deciding which ones to use. Regen heals the most, but is obviously rather delayed. Though it synergizes extremely well with the berserker's ability that temporarily multiplies health regen. Instant heal is less powerful, but you get it up front. Shields are in between the two, but are only a damage shield, which has obvious benefits and drawbacks. However, they have another benefit: They take no time to use. They also count as magic, which makes them unavailable for antimages. Then there's tons of other crap you want to use the slots for too, and the option of adding more slots in lieu of unlocking or buffing a skill tree with a talent point.

 

[Heresiarch]

Several months ago, I tried this game but ditched it because I thought it to be too complicated (even though I'm a semi-veteran Dwarf Fortress and ADOM player...). Today, out of boredom, I tried it again, and realized how silly I was...because TOME 4's complexity is nowhere near them.

I don't think TOME4 feels too deep in the roguelike spirit, it feels much more like a turn based Dragon Age/Diablo/Oblivion/whatever hack & slash action RPG. It has health regen, mana regen, skills with cooldown, your character is damn tough that it seems to have no danger of being one-shotted (though I admit I'm pretty early in the game, only at level 11), and there's just in general much less dangerous stuff around that can give you a hairy feeling compared to your typical roguelike. There's even no food system! In Adom, my chance to survive the puppy quest is like 15~20%, and the causes of death could include from drinking the wrong potion or being poisoned to punching a floating eye. But in TOME 4, my sword & board human warrior can clean stuff so easily even though I'm just test playing the game.

This doesn't mean TOME 4 sucks though, as I find its playing style pretty fun and easy to learn. I think it's like a mix of Adom and DoomRL, combining the former's detailed world and plot design (for a RL anyway) with the latter's fast & furious action. It's even less brutal than Stone Soup for sure.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You just haven't encountered the right enemies yet. The minotaur will fuck you up real fast, and don't even get me started on that fucking 'project Z' or whatever the fuck it's called.

Depends on class and race too obviously. Dwarven berserkers in full plate going to be a lot tankier than a halfling shadowdancer.

My main gripe with the game right now is that the items are boring. There's too little meaningful variation, especially early on, so every character of a given race/class combo feels the same unless you're dicking with their skills differently. It doesn't have the nice aspect of most roguelikes where your build and strategy completely changes because you found a wand/axe/rocket launcher that changes everything. Instead you decide on a plan and slowly gather gear suited towards it, each piece making a tiny incremental improvement. Having a full set of +hp regen and life recovery gear on a berserker makes a huge difference compared to one with a full set of resist gear or status immunities, but you never find that one item that changes things significantly.