Temple+ Modding Discussion

[Pygmy]

New version does work for sorcerers - my point was that by dropping your old version into "Over-rides" It should stop working for sorcerers but resonance continues to work so the unextracted Templeplus 1.0.29 file isn't being overwritten?

 

[Sitra Achara]

What is the exact folder you put it?
Should be <ToEE folder>\overrides\scr

 

[Endarire]

I'm running Windows 7 64 bit. I tried the WorldBuilder, and it runs, but it requires I extract the DATs. The DAT Tool wouldn't run on my machine, instead giving an immediate quit error at runtime.

I -want- to help with ToEE, but I need the tools first! How to fix these?

 

[Dercik]

@Endarine
@Elastan

Well, you should that not everybody is powergaming cRPG games like TOEE - some actually role-play like genre obligates to.

But your posts made me think - it might good idea to pack more skills into this feat - trickery domain gives you 2 class skills in fact - for comparison.
Or maybe add to this feat +1 (perhaps +2) to chosen skill?

I was thinking about giving 2 skills, but I would have problem with balancing and grouping them properly. The best would be if you could choose 2 or 3 of them, not choose preset pack of them, but that would require extra scripting and "hardcoding" i guess.

Also, what shall we call this feat? Psionics already uses "Talented."

I mentioned earlier about "skill predisposition" as feat name, which i think would be more proper.

But I have to disagree with +2 on two skills feats (like alertness, nimble, etc.) or +3 for one skill being weak. Keep in mind that +2 or +3 to skill feat let's you go beyond current level limit f.e. You can have max 10/11 diplomacy instead of 8 on lvl 1 (+4 from charisma, +4 from rank, +2/3 from feat). It is more like "boost", which sometimes might be handy.

I know that in TOEE you can grind, so it make it rather useless, but still theoretically might be helpful.

 

[Endarire]

@Derick: I've played D&D 3.x since the 3.0 books were hot off the presses at GenCon 2000. I have never used the +2/+2 or +3 feats on my characters for anything other than prerequisites, or because I got it as part of a package such as a familiar. This counts tabletop, video games, and Pathfinder.

Yes, the skill bosts can make a difference - up to 10% of the time for +2 and 15% of the time for +3. Consider, however, that Improved Initiative is +4, is core, and is practically required for optimal play, and, in my current opinion, is so good that I ban it as GM. (If everyone has it, no one has it, and everyone is out a feat. And, yes, I customize creatures as GM.)

A major selling point for me for games is that I can powergame and exploit tricks and feel good about it. I bought Daggerfall back in the day solely because I found it mentioned in a strategy section about how to exploit carrying capacity by tricking the game into thinking you were always carrying your wagon when you could normally access it only on the overworld and at dungeon entrances. A game's story and characters can be good - and I enjoy them when they're well done - but they're good for approximately one run (or until spoiled otherwise).

Optimization aside, do what you will do with the Skill Knowledge (or other name) feats. I still would like help getting DAT Tool to work on my 64 bit Windows 7 machine so I can edit more stuff.

 

[Endarire]

Rebalancing
I prefer the idea of a House Rule for "Rebalanced Feats/etc." to allow people who want standard power ToEE to have it while those who want better (feats that may be notably worth taking instead of Improved Initiative and Combat Reflexes) to have that too.

 

[Elestan]

RebalancingI prefer the idea of a House Rule for "Rebalanced Feats/etc." to allow people who want standard power ToEE to have it while those who want better (feats that may be notably worth taking instead of Improved Initiative and Combat Reflexes) to have that too.

As noted before, the difficulty with this is that you will never be able to make a single "Rebalanced" rules set that makes everyone happy; there will be too much disagreement about what Feats are over/under powered. Until we get the ability to have tagged groups of rule customizations, I think that rebalancing changes should be kept out of the main package's House Rules.

 

[Sitra Achara]

I'm running Windows 7 64 bit. I tried the WorldBuilder, and it runs, but it requires I extract the DATs. The DAT Tool wouldn't run on my machine, instead giving an immediate quit error at runtime.

I -want- to help with ToEE, but I need the tools first! How to fix these?

Check out the tools thread in this forum.

 

[Endarire]

Elestan: Agreed about packages of house rules. Thankee!

 

[Endarire]

What's the procedure to use Tio to extract DATs? What do I need for the WorldBuilder (community program) to work?

How important is ReSharper C++ if I have Visual Studio? What's special about ReSharper?

 

[Sitra Achara]

To extract just drag and drop a file on top of it.
World Builder is a Co8 tool so you should ask there.
Resharper is pretty handy though it can be quite slow now that Temple+ has expanded to a large project. There's a trial version if you want to check it out.

 

[Pygmy]

Thank you for your reply #49 Sitra Achara - no I put it in the app-1.0.29/overrides file in the Templeplus directory - now I have put it into overrides/scr in ToEE I now have resonance applying to clerics (yipee! Thank you) - Next project is to extend resonance to include domain spells if possible.... I am hoping to extend Mystic Theurge up to 14 levels (which only seems sensible assuming you've capped it at 10 levels) and advance Rebuke/Turn Undead as per the True Necromancer - i thought that applying resonance to one half of a cleric/wizard combo seemed very strange......

 

[Sitra Achara]

Thank you for your reply #49 Sitra Achara - no I put it in the app-1.0.29/overrides file in the Templeplus directory - now I have put it into overrides/scr in ToEE I now have resonance applying to clerics (yipee! Thank you) - Next project is to extend resonance to include domain spells if possible.... I am hoping to extend Mystic Theurge up to 14 levels (which only seems sensible assuming you've capped it at 10 levels) and advance Rebuke/Turn Undead as per the True Necromancer - i thought that applying resonance to one half of a cleric/wizard combo seemed very strange......

Cheers!

Extending the effect to Domain Spells would require more than simple scripting changes I'm afraid.

I didn't cap the PRCs, mainly because the default state is uncapped I think you have to be level 17 to notice that anyway...

 

[Endarire]

In what directory should Tio be? What DAT files have NPC stats?

 

[Sitra Achara]

Endarire, I'm not going to be a quest compass. This is really basic stuff that you should be able to figure out yourself if you have any hope of getting anywhere with modding, and if not I can't help you. There's plenty of guides for basic modding over at the Co8, and for 90% of things just plain using your eyes should do.

 

[Elestan]

I -want- to help with ToEE, but I need the tools first! How to fix these?

This is really basic stuff that you should be able to figure out yourself if you have any hope of getting anywhere with modding, and if not I can't help you.

Endarire, I'll note that even if you're having trouble with the modding, there can still be ways to help with T+. You've posted a number of good bug reports here, so it's clear that you have an eye for detail. I'm sure that it'd be very helpful if, after Sitra releases a new version, someone were to take the list of changes and go in and test the new/changed functionality, to make sure that they work properly and didn't introduce any new bugs. We've got a whole department of QA engineers at my company who do those things, and we on the development team are very glad to have them.

 

[Endarire]

I'm a former tester at Blizzard and that sounds like it's a familiar practice!

 

[Zelnorack]

While on the topic of Darley, is it at all possible to give her any other starting spells? I get that her mother was a succubus, and with her spell selection and feat selection, she takes after her mother more than her father, but as a sorceress she's rather lacking in the offense department for this game.

I'm pretty sure every single caster, that can, will get fireball. It wouldn't help Darley in the fire node, but it would make her more useful than just throwing Magic Missiles, which is still good, just not good as the only offensive spell option she has.

It's possible and also quite easy to do with WorldBuilder, and with Temple+ you could create a simple addon .DAT file to change Darley's stats.

View attachment 7585

How does one do that? Do explain it for the idiots, as I happen to fall into that category.

 

[Sitra Achara]

Re. editing NPCs
Honestly I thought this would be well documented in the Co8 forums, but it seems to be scattered about. But really it's very straightforward, the data is in data\rules\protos.tab and there's a decent editor within the World Builder app for it.

 

[Zelnorack]

While on the topic of Darley, is it at all possible to give her any other starting spells? I get that her mother was a succubus, and with her spell selection and feat selection, she takes after her mother more than her father, but as a sorceress she's rather lacking in the offense department for this game.

I'm pretty sure every single caster, that can, will get fireball. It wouldn't help Darley in the fire node, but it would make her more useful than just throwing Magic Missiles, which is still good, just not good as the only offensive spell option she has.

It's possible and also quite easy to do with WorldBuilder, and with Temple+ you could create a simple addon .DAT file to change Darley's stats.

View attachment 7585

How does one do this? I downlaoded the World Builder, went to the prototype tab, changed what I wanted, made good and damn sure it was done in the exact way it was before, and saved all, but the DAT file doesn't show.

Unless the file is the Protos one. Then it just doesn't work.

 

[Sitra Achara]

While on the topic of Darley, is it at all possible to give her any other starting spells? I get that her mother was a succubus, and with her spell selection and feat selection, she takes after her mother more than her father, but as a sorceress she's rather lacking in the offense department for this game.

I'm pretty sure every single caster, that can, will get fireball. It wouldn't help Darley in the fire node, but it would make her more useful than just throwing Magic Missiles, which is still good, just not good as the only offensive spell option she has.

It's possible and also quite easy to do with WorldBuilder, and with Temple+ you could create a simple addon .DAT file to change Darley's stats.

View attachment 7585

How does one do this? I downlaoded the World Builder, went to the prototype tab, changed what I wanted, made good and damn sure it was done in the exact way it was before, and saved all, but the DAT file doesn't show.

Unless the file is the Protos one. Then it just doesn't work.

The file is the protos.tab file. You have to copy it back to your folder to have an effect. Also it won't affect an existing savegame where Darley has already joined you (or perhaps a game where you've already entered the Fire Node map, not sure).

For your own personal use you don't have to create a .DAT file I guess, and I don't want to confuse you unnecessarily

 

[Zelnorack]

While on the topic of Darley, is it at all possible to give her any other starting spells? I get that her mother was a succubus, and with her spell selection and feat selection, she takes after her mother more than her father, but as a sorceress she's rather lacking in the offense department for this game.

I'm pretty sure every single caster, that can, will get fireball. It wouldn't help Darley in the fire node, but it would make her more useful than just throwing Magic Missiles, which is still good, just not good as the only offensive spell option she has.

It's possible and also quite easy to do with WorldBuilder, and with Temple+ you could create a simple addon .DAT file to change Darley's stats.

View attachment 7585

How does one do this? I downlaoded the World Builder, went to the prototype tab, changed what I wanted, made good and damn sure it was done in the exact way it was before, and saved all, but the DAT file doesn't show.

Unless the file is the Protos one. Then it just doesn't work.

The file is the protos.tab file. You have to copy it back to your folder to have an effect. Also it won't affect an existing savegame where Darley has already joined you (or perhaps a game where you've already entered the Fire Node map, not sure).

For your own personal use you don't have to create a .DAT file I guess, and I don't want to confuse you unnecessarily

Might be save game... Which royally miffs me off, but hey, that's modding.

My current save game is in the room where you fight Hedrack. Poor guy died in 1 volley from my ranger/fighter.

Time to start over. Again. And see if modding Darley's stats and spells in the protos.dat helped her not be a bad sorceress till level 12.

 

[Sitra Achara]

You can also add spells to her via the console

Look up spell_known_add in this trhead:

http://www.co8.org/community/index.php?threads/list-of-console-commands.1676/

 

[Zaxis]

So I've created a Battle Sorcerer from the SRD as a base class, but I've got a problem with getting it to show up in the in game menu. I've added entries for it in the constants, stat_enum and stat_ext files and created a tpmodifier file and char_class file. They are all also placed within the overrides folder correctly. What else am I missing?

 

[Sitra Achara]

So I've created a Battle Sorcerer from the SRD as a base class, but I've got a problem with getting it to show up in the in game menu. I've added entries for it in the constants, stat_enum and stat_ext files and created a tpmodifier file and char_class file. They are all also placed within the overrides folder correctly. What else am I missing?

No other files should be necessary. Can you post the files on gist.guthub.com?