temple of elemental eevvilll (party questions)

[Crazy Tuvok]

Bards are*far* from useless in 3-3.5 ed. In fact there are no useless classes. Bards are an excellent complement to any party, tho not the best at any one thing - exactly as they were always intended to be. I understand your trepidation tho as in other games and in all versions of DnD *before* 3 they were the kings of suckatash mountain. Not anymore.

Rangers are also not useless at higher levels - exactly the opposite. In my last game my dual wielding Ranger using items we crafted had more kills than my tank. And he had good bow skills when needed, some very useful spells, as well as impressive stealth./tracking. Probably the most crucial member of my party.

Technically you don't need a rogue as others can learn almost all the same skills (exept for disabling powerful magical traps), and if you want one you can always recruit an NPC.

I don't like that evil clerics cannot spontaneously cast healing spells. I am going to play thru with my evil party and the thought of that limit bums me out.

 

[Stark]

thanks for the advice. i think i'll keep to the current members for this playthrough, but definately try out bard in my next one (chaotic evil party perhaps). I've always wanted to try out bard but kept putting it off due to misconception that it may be a "useless" class (some lesson i learned from BG. yeah. i know now. it was 2nd ed DnD).

btw i noticed something, even with the little dialog that this troika game has, it still shines. I tried conversing using a high int wizard and then a low int half orc and they're markedly different.

i so hope they got everything right in their next game.

 

[DamnElfGirl]

Low-int half orc conversations are one of the best things about TOEE. I use my barbarian to talk to everyone! "Who Sin Cubbard?"

 

[The Exar]

Why do you think the Ranger becomes useless? Animal companion (jackal, I'm thinking), decent combat, survival, divine spells, specialization in dual wielding, favored enemies. I'm looking for a more interesting party rather than an "easy" or "proper" party. I know the basics: fighter, wizard, cleric, rogue--I've beaten ToEE once already with a well-balanced goodie two shoes party, now I'm looking for something a bit more unorthodox and fun.

I actualy meant "ranger" as range fighting character, not as the Ranger class. Sorry for the missunderstood.

 

[xemous]

i have a cleric, lvl 5 now, nearly lvl 6
he has only 1 healing spell, cure light wounds :D

what have i done wrong

(fkn)

 

[Stark]

what's his wisdom score? is it still under effect of some ability drain from previous battle? or all along you were having just 1 spell only?

when leveling up, were you given which spell to choose?

did you select which spell to memorise before resting? you can do it via the spell slot menu (click on inventory, then click on spell button)

 

[Crazy Tuvok]

Also, when choosing which spells to memorize before resting, never have your cleric memorize healing spells (if they are a good or neutral cleric) because they can always spontaneously cast them. Hold down shift when choosing a spell to cast from the radial menu.

 

[Stark]

Also, when choosing which spells to memorize before resting, never have your cleric memorize healing spells (if they are a good or neutral cleric) because they can always spontaneously cast them. Hold down shift when choosing a spell to cast from the radial menu.

at the risk of sounding total clueless, is this a bug in ToEE?

 

[DamnElfGirl]

Nope, clerics can always choose to cast a healing spell in place of another memorized spell in 3rd ed.

 

[suibhne]

Nope, clerics can always choose to cast a healing spell in place of another memorized spell in 3rd ed.

That DamnElfGirl means, of course, that Good clerics can do this. Evil clerics have a similar spontaneous casting ability, but for Harm rather than Heal spells. Neutral clerics in PnP can choose which of those abilities to get, but I think ToEE sticks them with Heal spells - which are obviously more useful anyway, especially considering how combat-capable the 3E cleric is already.

 

[Crazy Tuvok]

Evil clerics not being able to cast healing spells spontaneously is a real drag I think. It makes them less capable. Harm spells? Yip-fucking-ee. As if clerics need another way to crank out the hurting.
Also it means an evil cleric can't try out a lot of the cool divine spells as their slots are filled up with healing spells.
It also makes no sense. Obviously evildoers need healing as well as do-gooders and their dieties wouldn't deprive them of this anymore than they would deprive them of food or weapons. If evil clerics cannot spontaneously cast healing spells then why can they cast them at all?
I fail to see the internal consistency of it in terms of in-game logic and I see no mechanical or rule-based balance that it brings. If anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.

 

[Stark]

thanks guys (and gals).

I have another query. my neutral good cleric is just not that useful in battle at all, even though i've read here and elsewhere clerics can be pretty powerful. I wonder if i made some mistakes in choices when leveling up.

first of all, she has decent dex (around 21 I think, wearing gloves of +4 dex) and good wisdom (18) and decent strength (15 i think).

yet she misses most of the time, and she can only attack once per-round.

it makes her rather useless during battle. I'm not sure if I'm using cleric in the right manner. she wields a mace+1, holds a shield, and is currently level 7.

am i doing something wrong? she's wearing elven armor by the way. is that what is impeding her?

 

[Petey_the_Skid]

Meh dude...if you're cleric has a dex of 21, wehat the hell is she doing using a mace? Giver her a crossbow or some other ranged weapon, it'll work a lot better.

 

[Stark]

well, i figure high dex helps in melee fight too, isn't that right?

I've neglected to put any feats in range weapons, which is why i wanted her to be melee person.

but if range weapon is the way to go i'll give it a try.

thus far the most powerful character i have is the sorceror. he rarely runs out of spells before the end of any battle, and do tons of damage with fireballs.

 

[Anonymous]

That's exactly why he said use crossbow.

Melee attack bonus = Strength modifier + base attack bonus + size modifier

Ranged attack bonus = Dex modifier + BAB + size

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Since we're discussing Temple jaunts, anyone can suggest good evil companions? By good I mean ranging from competent to useful to great (if any).

EDIT: Additionally, does anyone know:

• if the Crafting feats are working properly under the second official patch?
• what are the requirements for item crafting? I know the basics (ie, +X bonuses and effects like ice and fire effects), but was curious as to what would be required to make Axiomatic and Holy weapons for instance (isn't holy dependant of caster alignment or somesuch?)

 

[xemous]

my cleric is lvl 7 and i figured out i hadnt checked to memorise these spells or really looked at all

been busy lately so only played 30min or so, but i was on for hours today, from lvl 5 - 7, took on armour crafting and item crafting feats (bard and cleric lvl slightly slower now) got some nice items for my fighters
also recruited a thief gnome, wonnilog (sp?)
the party is really powerfull now, im able to win all my battles in the secound area of the toee

i had encounted some trolls, but they dont seem to die, they do fall down after around 40 - 60 damage but

anyway to kill them?

2 fighters, 1 paladin, 1 cleric, 1 bard, npc: 1 rouge

 

[Whipporowill]

Fire or acid attacks kills them off.

 

[Spazmo]

Just knock them down and then use coup de grace attacks on them. That'll finish them off.

 

[xemous]

>wha

 

[Spazmo]

Visit a merchant. All the stuff in his inventory will have the "NPC property" flag removed and you'll be able to grab it.

 

[Stark]

I've taken "craft magic armor and weapon" feat but I'm unable to craft anything more complicated than +1. I read the manual and realized I'll probably need some components in order to craft weapons with nice effects. problem is, I do not know what components are required.

anywhere on the net where i can get the list? I do not think it's in the manual (unless i missed it...)

thanks.

 

[Crazy Tuvok]

To craft magic weapons you need to be of a certain level (what level depends on how magical a weapon you intend to make), a masterwork weapon (or if going from +1 to something higher than obviously you need a +1 weapon), gold and you need to know the spells that are the basis for whatever enchantments you are going to give the weapon. In ToEE it is assumed that you have any other components.
The only tricky bit in ToEE is getting your hands on the right masterwork weapon, but the Blacksmith in Nulb has quite a few and there are a few drops from monsters in the Temple itself.

 

[Stark]

thanks.

I've installed the Co8 latest patch (3, i think), so i can get all the master work weapons.

but still it's fustrating not to know what pre-requisite i'm lacking in order craft the weapon.

in "Craft wonderous item" at least they show clearly what levels/spells are required. not true for "craft magic weapon and armor". the lack of feedback is abit fustrating.

or maybe i just need to experiment with it further.

 

[Crazy Tuvok]

Usually if you can't craft something it is because you do not have enough xp to spend (or depending on how far into the game, enough gold - but this is not usually an issue by about 3/4 thru the game) or more likely that you are not high enough level.

IIRC, it lists at the bottom what enchantments are available for the given weapon. If you are not seeing the one you want, it means you do not know the appropriate spell. If you have access to a Dungeon Master's Guide it lists all the prereqs for the most commonly crafted items (amt of xp and gold, what caster level you need and what spell you need). Someone may have posted a list somewhere, but as I have a DM's guide I have never looked. Sorry.

The bitch of it for me was that I couldn't find anyone who had a good scroll collection for sale, just the dude in Hommlet castle and his selection was wanting for what I wanted to craft.