Vapourware That Which Sleeps - Vaporware Strategy RP

[MRY]

It's a really fun opportunity. That Which Sleeps seems to me a throwback to an older kind of game -- not in its particulars so much, but in the way it's not bound by a set of genre conventions. In that sense, it makes me think of Lords of Midnight, Ancient Art of War, King of Dragon Pass, and other classics that became much more than the sum of their parts.

My role is extremely limited: I'm just adding an extra coat of polish to their lore and in-game text. I don't have the time (unfortunately) to actually build anything from scratch, but the nice thing about that is that it frees me up to just riff in a high-fantasy style that comes very easily to me. (By contrast, Fallen Gods uses a quasi-poetic saga style that is excruciatingly hard.) The KDG guys are great to work with, and I really appreciate having the chance to pitch in on a game that I was already eager to back. (I feel less guilty about only being able to throw a few bucks at it when I have a chance do a little work, too.)

 

[KingDinosaurGames]

Also, we decided against the procedural video - the problem is I used a Hex map which I know no one here will care about but we actually lost some pledges with our ugly Mod video so we're a bit afraid of showing it. Instead I'm hacking in a tiled version of the main map and going to take some screenshots instead - but the mechanics are pretty interesting so I think screenshots + description will suffice for now. After the update let me know if you're still curious about it, I can get the prototype over to you once the Kickstarter is over. More realistically about two weeks after the KS, I need to get out all the Scenario Viewer builds to Beta Backers and above first.

Wow, I can't believe it, I'm really disappointed about the feedback. I thought is really good clip/presentation. I suck and modding but I said to my self it reminds me of Heroes of Might and Magic 2/3 and I can do this since it looked easy and nice.

In that case it's then wise not to show any videos that my "disturb" the community. Any chance we'll see any more videos at all during this KS campaign?

Still going to wrap up the Modding videos, as well as gameplay finding the contest winner event, and finally the Military video.

 

[KingDinosaurGames]

Just got Greenlit, pretty important landmark but still no word from GoG - I'll try contacting them again since a lot of people prefer them to Humble Bundle.

 

[Diablo169]

Just got Greenlit, pretty important landmark but still no word from GoG - I'll try contacting them again since a lot of people prefer them to Humble Bundle.

Congratulations :D

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Just got Greenlit, pretty important landmark but still no word from GoG - I'll try contacting them again since a lot of people prefer them to Humble Bundle.

Try talking with JudasIscariot

 

[Brutan]

Just got Greenlit, pretty important landmark but still no word from GoG - I'll try contacting them again since a lot of people prefer them to Humble Bundle.

Any news on the paypal front? I noticed you reduced the options there.

Thanks for trying with GOG. I appreciate it. I can't say the same for their lack of answer though.

 

[KingDinosaurGames]

Just got Greenlit, pretty important landmark but still no word from GoG - I'll try contacting them again since a lot of people prefer them to Humble Bundle.

Any news on the paypal front? I noticed you reduced the options there.

Thanks for trying with GOG. I appreciate it. I can't say the same for their lack of answer though.

< $500 still - not sure it's going to make a great impact. Still, we should get Procedural and that's the last major feature, the stretch goals we'll be adding are only aesthetics to bring the map to life and content (community selected Agent, Old One, etc).

I'm sure we'll get on GoG eventually, if we still don't hear back I'll message JudasIscariot, got some silver laying around

 

[Storyfag]

I'm sure we'll get on GoG eventually, if we still don't hear back I'll message JudasIscariot, got some silver laying around

On the Codex silver might not be enough. Better find some

 

[Ulminati]

What's the shekel - potato exchange rate like these days anyway?

 

[KingDinosaurGames]

GoG got back to us, so we can start that process - also Failbetter put up a facebook post about us which should definitely attract some more support for the game.

I think I have a Shekel somewhere around my house....

 

[catfood]

$53,141

Procedural generation here we come!

 

[Ulminati]

Looking good!

Although I'd prefer to have the Life goes on/horrors of war as one stretch goal and the agent/race as another. I realize that it's different people who'd have to work on graphics and mechanics, but it seems weird to have "happy graphics" turn into "no graphics" as you expand your influence if only the first goal is met.

 

[DrowningHarvey]

Awesome news. Really looking forward to this one.

 

[Ulminati]

Found this in the KS comments:

@KDG: Will it be possible to thwart the bloodlines of kings/emperors/rulers by, say, pairing them with a promiscuous female agent of yours (embodiment of Lust, which leaves their lands neglected and prone to further corruption)?

OR to corrupt their "seed", resulting in incompetent successor, with numerous physical or mental deficiencies (or both), which would lead to people uprisings and revolt due to the fact that THEY think that the king slept with his own sister (framed incest situation)?

OR why not plant YOUR OWN seed (if the Holy Spirit could do it why shouldn't the Old One be an exception, no offense) into some Queen and that child becomes your agent - a Messiah that is generous to the people and hailed as the Godsent ruler that would deliver their kingdom from damnation, only for that same people to face mass-extinction once they gathered inside the ritual circle, which ascends him to become an Old One Titan - YOUR OWN avatar that WALKS THE WORLD!!!

To summarize: I'm interested to what extent can you influence the powerful bloodlines of mortal kings, ancient emperors and immortal rulers?

KingDinosaurGames -- inquiring minds wish to know if TWS will please the faithful of Slaanesh!

 

[Destroid]

Found this in the KS comments:

@KDG: Will it be possible to thwart the bloodlines of kings/emperors/rulers by, say, pairing them with a promiscuous female agent of yours (embodiment of Lust, which leaves their lands neglected and prone to further corruption)?

OR to corrupt their "seed", resulting in incompetent successor, with numerous physical or mental deficiencies (or both), which would lead to people uprisings and revolt due to the fact that THEY think that the king slept with his own sister (framed incest situation)?

OR why not plant YOUR OWN seed (if the Holy Spirit could do it why shouldn't the Old One be an exception, no offense) into some Queen and that child becomes your agent - a Messiah that is generous to the people and hailed as the Godsent ruler that would deliver their kingdom from damnation, only for that same people to face mass-extinction once they gathered inside the ritual circle, which ascends him to become an Old One Titan - YOUR OWN avatar that WALKS THE WORLD!!!

To summarize: I'm interested to what extent can you influence the powerful bloodlines of mortal kings, ancient emperors and immortal rulers?

KingDinosaurGames -- inquiring minds wish to know if TWS will please the faithful of Slaanesh!

Are you volunteering to be lead designer for the warhammer mod?

 

[Ulminati]

Only if the rival old one AI is good. Pick between Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh and Tzeentch and battle for supremacy against the other AIs.

 

[catfood]

I've only played Chaos in the Old World once but I had a really fun time with it. I played with Slaanesh and won.

This is part of the reason I'm so interested in this game. It reminds me so much of that board game which I enjoyed very much.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Found this in the KS comments:

@KDG: Will it be possible to thwart the bloodlines of kings/emperors/rulers by, say, pairing them with a promiscuous female agent of yours (embodiment of Lust, which leaves their lands neglected and prone to further corruption)?

OR to corrupt their "seed", resulting in incompetent successor, with numerous physical or mental deficiencies (or both), which would lead to people uprisings and revolt due to the fact that THEY think that the king slept with his own sister (framed incest situation)?

OR why not plant YOUR OWN seed (if the Holy Spirit could do it why shouldn't the Old One be an exception, no offense) into some Queen and that child becomes your agent - a Messiah that is generous to the people and hailed as the Godsent ruler that would deliver their kingdom from damnation, only for that same people to face mass-extinction once they gathered inside the ritual circle, which ascends him to become an Old One Titan - YOUR OWN avatar that WALKS THE WORLD!!!

To summarize: I'm interested to what extent can you influence the powerful bloodlines of mortal kings, ancient emperors and immortal rulers?

KingDinosaurGames -- inquiring minds wish to know if TWS will please the faithful of Slaanesh!

If I had the cash to fork over to this game I would ask for a mission where you have to kidnap the lover of the Chosen One - who could be a Princess or a Companion - then brainwash her into a power-hungry bitch who, once saved, would start whispering into the hero's ear dreams of ambition. Ultimately resulting in overthrowing one of the kingdoms and civil war.

 

[KingDinosaurGames]

Looking good!

Although I'd prefer to have the Life goes on/horrors of war as one stretch goal and the agent/race as another. I realize that it's different people who'd have to work on graphics and mechanics, but it seems weird to have "happy graphics" turn into "no graphics" as you expand your influence if only the first goal is met.

I know what you mean, but we wouldn't have quite that level of a switch - instead you'd go from a "happy world going about its business" to desolation - the Horrors of War stretch goal just adds flavor to the transition and gives the desolation a bit more custom definition.

 

[KingDinosaurGames]

Found this in the KS comments:

@KDG: Will it be possible to thwart the bloodlines of kings/emperors/rulers by, say, pairing them with a promiscuous female agent of yours (embodiment of Lust, which leaves their lands neglected and prone to further corruption)?

OR to corrupt their "seed", resulting in incompetent successor, with numerous physical or mental deficiencies (or both), which would lead to people uprisings and revolt due to the fact that THEY think that the king slept with his own sister (framed incest situation)?

OR why not plant YOUR OWN seed (if the Holy Spirit could do it why shouldn't the Old One be an exception, no offense) into some Queen and that child becomes your agent - a Messiah that is generous to the people and hailed as the Godsent ruler that would deliver their kingdom from damnation, only for that same people to face mass-extinction once they gathered inside the ritual circle, which ascends him to become an Old One Titan - YOUR OWN avatar that WALKS THE WORLD!!!

To summarize: I'm interested to what extent can you influence the powerful bloodlines of mortal kings, ancient emperors and immortal rulers?

KingDinosaurGames -- inquiring minds wish to know if TWS will please the faithful of Slaanesh!

Chaos Gods gonna Chaos....

This is definitely our most requested mythos that we haven't directly drawn from - I'm really hoping someone at the modder tier tries to go down this path so we can figure out what isn't supported right now. We have a ton of effects that you can pull from even before going into custom coding so it shouldn't be too big of a problem, but if it requries AI adaptation (like corrupted bloodlines) we're going into more murky territory.

 

[Ulminati]

I know what you mean, but we wouldn't have quite that level of a switch - instead you'd go from a "happy world going about its business" to desolation - the Horrors of War stretch goal just adds flavor to the transition and gives the desolation a bit more custom definition.

My main worry was if the transition was from "happy" visual touches to no visual touches at all once areas get corrupted. That would be worse than not having any touches at all. It looks like the project is on track for getting both stretch goals done though, so no worries.

Chaos Gods gonna Chaos....

This is definitely our most requested mythos that we haven't directly drawn from - I'm really hoping someone at the modder tier tries to go down this path so we can figure out what isn't supported right now. We have a ton of effects that you can pull from even before going into custom coding so it shouldn't be too big of a problem, but if it requries AI adaptation (like corrupted bloodlines) we're going into more murky territory.

Games Workshop loves suing independant developers. It'sbest to steer well clear of directly referencing GW lore.
Events where you corrupt important NPC leaders/heroes/guildmaster in some way so that their descendants become more likely to turn into your puppets seems like it's well within the scope of the current game.

It seems like you have sickness and despair (Nurgle), Lots of killing (Khorne), scheming, madness and magic rituals (tzeentch) done.

How about the ability to attach vices (alcohol, sleeping around, likes torturing people in the dungeons, irrational fear of cows...) to NPCs in the world and the presence or abcense of them can influence or trigger events. That'd be a good way to get slaaneshi corruption done. Conversely, heroes could come with virtues that makes them less likely to fall to specific schemes or adversaries. A clever old one would need to research a scrying spell to determine the presence/absense of some traits of course. Or plant a spy. Else you'd risk your schemes to poison the kings wine come undone because he doesn't drink alcohol.

You could look to Crusader Kings 2 for inspiration. Characters in CK2 are o a large degree defined by a number of traits they gain or lose over the course of their life, with many events prompting the addition or removal of good or bad traits.

 

[KingDinosaurGames]

I know what you mean, but we wouldn't have quite that level of a switch - instead you'd go from a "happy world going about its business" to desolation - the Horrors of War stretch goal just adds flavor to the transition and gives the desolation a bit more custom definition.

My main worry was if the transition was from "happy" visual touches to no visual touches at all once areas get corrupted. That would be worse than not having any touches at all. It looks like the project is on track for getting both stretch goals done though, so no worries.

Chaos Gods gonna Chaos....

This is definitely our most requested mythos that we haven't directly drawn from - I'm really hoping someone at the modder tier tries to go down this path so we can figure out what isn't supported right now. We have a ton of effects that you can pull from even before going into custom coding so it shouldn't be too big of a problem, but if it requries AI adaptation (like corrupted bloodlines) we're going into more murky territory.

Games Workshop loves suing independant developers. It'sbest to steer well clear of directly referencing GW lore.
Events where you corrupt important NPC leaders/heroes/guildmaster in some way so that their descendants become more likely to turn into your puppets seems like it's well within the scope of the current game.

It seems like you have sickness and despair (Nurgle), Lots of killing (Khorne), scheming, madness and magic rituals (tzeentch) done.

How about the ability to attach vices (alcohol, sleeping around, likes torturing people in the dungeons, irrational fear of cows...) to NPCs in the world and the presence or abcense of them can influence or trigger events. That'd be a good way to get slaaneshi corruption done. Conversely, heroes could come with virtues that makes them less likely to fall to specific schemes or adversaries. A clever old one would need to research a scrying spell to determine the presence/absense of some traits of course. Or plant a spy. Else you'd risk your schemes to poison the kings wine come undone because he doesn't drink alcohol.

You could look to Crusader Kings 2 for inspiration. Characters in CK2 are o a large degree defined by a number of traits they gain or lose over the course of their life, with many events prompting the addition or removal of good or bad traits.

Yeah one of the reasons we stayed VERY far from anything GW is there sue-happy approach to negotiation, on that front their strategy has proven successful since any indie dev would be terrified of even seeming to mimic their lore.

We have a LOT of support for vices (just negative traits) that then trigger events, so that should be great. CK2 is definitely a mechanical inspiration for a lot of our hero design, though we don't go nearly as far as they do into the political and familial system.

 

[Ulminati]

We have a LOT of support for vices (just negative traits) that then trigger events, so that should be great. CK2 is definitely a mechanical inspiration for a lot of our hero design, though we don't go nearly as far as they do into the political and familial system.

Can traits spread to others? Say, if I infect the thief with the Pustulent Pox Of Pepetual Paranoia, can I make the negative trait he gained have an x% chance of spreading to his allies if he keeps adventuring with them?

How about inherited? If I manipulate a general into slaughtering a bunch of innocents, can the son he has a year down the line get a negatrait that is a (milder) variant of the "comitted atrocity" negatrait I had attached to the father?

What is the visibility of traits going to be like? All visible to your god-like omniscience, or will some/all of them be hidden until you get some kind of magic or mundane infiltration going?

 

[KingDinosaurGames]

We have a LOT of support for vices (just negative traits) that then trigger events, so that should be great. CK2 is definitely a mechanical inspiration for a lot of our hero design, though we don't go nearly as far as they do into the political and familial system.

Can traits spread to others? Say, if I infect the thief with the Pustulent Pox Of Pepetual Paranoia, can I make the negative trait he gained have an x% chance of spreading to his allies if he keeps adventuring with them?

How about inherited? If I manipulate a general into slaughtering a bunch of innocents, can the son he has a year down the line get a negatrait that is a (milder) variant of the "comitted atrocity" negatrait I had attached to the father?

What is the visibility of traits going to be like? All visible to your god-like omniscience, or will some/all of them be hidden until you get some kind of magic or mundane infiltration going?

Traits are visible at all times, Desires are hidden unless you have Infiltration (which can be on the individual, on his friend, or if he is a royal or noble on his home POI).

Some traits do spread, plague is a perfect example of this, but there are also psychological traumas that can spread like paranoia - low will Heroes and Leaders are susceptible to taking on the negative traits of their neighbors, even something mundane like heavy drinker.

Inheritance is up in the air at this point, it's a major topic of discussion between the two of us. The original scope of the game played out over at most a couple of decades and children never really matured to grow into their role, they were mostly there for sacrifices or kidnapping. However, now that Endless Simulation and Procedural Generation is in we'll have to figure out the best way to accomplish this - undoubtedly we'll have some element of what you're proposing but I'm not sure to what extent.

 

[Ulminati]

Nice. That should be enough for some intrepid modder to give us the GW scenario everyone (not so) secretly craves.