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The Arx Fatalis Thread

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,563
Is there a better FP dungeon crawler than Arx? I'll accept the argument for Ultima Underworld but likely nothing else.
That's a tough question. If it doesn't have to be a literal medieval dungeon, I think Prey beats Arx overall. I deeply appreciate how Arx has nearly zero plot gates, but as a whole package Prey is just more refined and benefits from its fore-runners. I'll further add credit to Prey in being such a good dungeon crawler, in that I vastly prefer medieval to scifi and am one of the few people who appreciated rune casting. Arx's interlocking paths that let you go absolutely anywhere is absolutely glorious though. The first time I ever played it, I had cleared probably 98% of the game before I ever visited the king. I picked the crypt lock and just got to it.
Prey pales in comparison to Arx. It only becomes a worthy game with the Prey for Death 2 mod, and even then it's still probably inferior. Good dungeon crawler how? There's like 4 weapons, 5 enemy types, quest markers and object highlights, no meaningful build choice (you master all in one playthrough), it's piss-easy, magic (psi) is mostly redundant or laughably OP, puzzles? sure there's elements of it but it's all very basic casual modern game design lameness, no automapping (or manual mapping) required, worthless exterior space "dungeon", boring plot, thin atmosphere. The game is definitely not without merit but come on, lay off the pipe Sir. Besides, if we're allowing Sci-fi then obviously System Shock 2 is the go-to, which is just about better than Arx.

Is there a better FP dungeon crawler than Arx? I'll accept the argument for Ultima Underworld but likely nothing else.

King's Field IV maybe, not especially better just up there too
Opinion considered and ultimately rejected.

I never did complete the game so whatever I have to say doesn't hold too much ground, but NAH. I appreciate the classic Japanese hardcore console design of course (restrictive saving, brutal difficulty, unique overall style) but the gameplay is sadly a little lacking overall, one example being interactivity with the environment is sparse. another being the relative absence of RPG systems, which in my book is required for true monocled dungeon crawler status. But hey, maybe it is time for me to give it another go.
 
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sosmoflux

Educated
Joined
Apr 16, 2022
Messages
253
It's insane that there aren't an abundance of immersive dungeon crawlers. Feels like what everyone wants. Guess they're too hard to make?
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,786
Besides, if we're allowing Sci-fi then obviously System Shock 2 is the go-to, which is just about better than Arx.

I completely disagree. While Arx felt natural in its limitation and back tracking, in SS2 I always had the feeling they added weapons breaking and endless respawning and backtracking only to prolong a short game! Of course without any living NPCs which Arx had plenty. In that regard, Prey is very similar and inferiour to Arx for the very same reasons...
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,563
Durability, backtracking, enemy respawning (all dungeon crawling RPG staples) were very obviously thought of at the conceptual stage because they thought it would make for interesting gameplay, which it very much does. Only soy boys disagree. Furthermore these are all things many, many games feature, not just dungeon crawlers. Again for very legitimate gameplay reasons. You must live under a rock or otherwise hate many, many great games out there.

Take your realism-first or otherwise misguided game design ideals back to the mediocre VTM:B, demon!

Also I don't see how SS2's backtracking is any less natural than Arx's. Weapon durability and enemy spawning yes perhaps, but who gives a fuck those were implemented by real, intelligent game designers that understand the assignment, to bolster the gameplay, not make mediocrity for realism autists.

"Endless" backtracking? Very little of the game involves retreading old ground. I would imagine you have an inability to mentally map, orient yourself and navigate given that statement. Which by the way, is also all the intention of dungeon crawlers as a gameplay concept. Navigation challenge is legit lost game design at this point, yet it was just as important as the rest. Dumbed down for the tards.

You also missed the stock realismtard criticism of not being able to equip a gun without the respective skill level, because muh realism. Why are people so dim-witted as to being unable to think in abstract terms or to suspend any state of disbelief in a freaking video game, which aren't meant to be reality simulators before anything else. even ones labelled "Immersive Sims" believe it or not.

Realism is still very much important in a game it is relevant to (all the games discussed right now), yet the job of a game designer is understanding the game comes first, which oftentimes overrides realism concerns. Other times, when a feature is too unbelievable in implementation, it should likewise be overridden by realism concerns. The key is being able to understand and sort based on the context. Enemy respawns & weapon durability as it stands in SS2 are all very valid gameplay overrides, and are accompanied by loose believability anyway. The many's efforts results in more enemies coming for you (respawns). Guns DO degrade and jam in real life, just perhaps not as fast.

I don't hate you, just what you and your kind stand for, that being decline :) Realism faggotry is one of many ideals that led to the steep decline we all suffer under now.

"Of course without any living NPCs which Arx had plenty. In that regard, Prey is very similar and inferiour to Arx for the very same reasons..."

System Shock doesn't need living NPCs for virgin storyfags to seduce and spout pre-written lines of text to. In fact the whole point is to not have those for horror enhancement, sense of isolation and also believe it or not, realism and immersion - if you can't make NPC interactions quite believable enough with the tech, and not synergistic within the existing concept you have, exclude them altogether. Especially when it will benefit the overarching concepts to do so (in this case horror, immersion, isolation). A very respectable approach, and in no way inferior. while I too like neckbearded NPC dialogue stuff (mainly for gameplay reasons, but also worldbuilding, sense of freedom etc), SS2 would easily be lesser with its inclusion. Maybe not the case for SS1 so much (it's not hugely horrific nor immersive), but definitely 2.

Anyways, Prey is only loved by casuals. Realismfag, storyfag and a casual, are you sure you belong here Sir? Oh wait that's half the cuckdex.

FWIW, VTMB is probably the best storyfag game in existence. While its devs had a very obvious loose grasp on or concern for gameplay, everything else is pure style, badassery, genius. Shame it's all built around rather mediocre game. Though even then it's not THAT bad. But this is what you get when short-sighted storyfaggots/realismfags/atmosphaggots/roleplaydweebs make a game, not real game designers that see the bigger picture.
 
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