Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[IncendiaryDevice]

Though, the difficulty you said you had with late dragons is because you didn't master the spells system my dude.

What difficulty did I mention?

Didn't you say you had some with "late black and green dragons" and you didn't bother with them?

Well, it would be quite hard to not bother with the black dragon but you are encouraged not to bother with the green dragon, so it is sounding a lot to me like you have little knowledge of what I even wrote combined with little knowledge of the game.

 

[ga♥]

You don't have to kill the black dragon (is that the one at the end?) so i thought maybe you just skipped because all you knew how to use was magic missile.

Sorry, didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

You don't have to kill the black dragon (is that the one at the end?) so i thought maybe you just skipped because all you knew how to use was magic missile.

Sorry, didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

What do you mean by "the one at the end"?

& Magic Missiles are well known to be a great way to kill both dragons and demons. Possibly the most effective way, so I've no idea why you're belittling Magic Missile. Magic Missile's weren't used for the Black dragon though and were bugged for the silver dragon.

You hurt my feeling by devaluing the site with incompetent and incoherent drivel

 

[ga♥]

Maybe you meant the Shadow dragon (also optional), you seem confused you know, so I wondered.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Maybe you meant the Shadow dragon (also optional), you seem confused you know, so I wondered.

Shadow dragon is the first dragon you'd encounter, or, at least, try taking on properly, I'd guess for most people. So how long you gonna keep this really rather boring spam charade going? I've got all night, have you?

 

[GarfunkeL]

You wrote that you "just moved on" and later you wrote "I didn't even bother", both in the context of dragons and the magic system being shit. If you are too stupid to understand the meaning of the sentences you yourself constructed, then it's you who needs to fuck off.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

You wrote that you "just moved on" and later you wrote "I didn't even bother", both in the context of dragons and the magic system being shit. If you are too stupid to understand the meaning of the sentences you yourself constructed, then it's you who needs to fuck off.

"Just moved on"... because it was bugged you spastic.

"I didn't even bother"... because killing the nth dragon of the game during a whole sequence that was fairly pointless over-padding in the first place, combined with my experiences of the past two dragons, one of which was bugged and the other of which did not require any of the advanced spells to defeat it anyway. Oh yeah, and you're encouraged not to take on the last dragon, so "I didn't even bother" is also saying, no, the game has bored me out with regard to asking me if I want to kill... yet another... dragon.

But yeah, just read some out of context words and write whatever you want, cos that's what conversation is all about, that's what real men do, right?

 

[agris]

You wrote that you "just moved on" and later you wrote "I didn't even bother", both in the context of dragons and the magic system being shit. If you are too stupid to understand the meaning of the sentences you yourself constructed, then it's you who needs to fuck off.

"Just moved on"... because it was bugged you spastic.

Probably an odd suggestion, but perhaps apply the patches that have released for over a decade before you decide to play a game. Maybe?

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

You wrote that you "just moved on" and later you wrote "I didn't even bother", both in the context of dragons and the magic system being shit. If you are too stupid to understand the meaning of the sentences you yourself constructed, then it's you who needs to fuck off.

"Just moved on"... because it was bugged you spastic.

Probably an odd suggestion, but perhaps apply the patches that have released for over a decade before you decide to play a game. Maybe?

Never patched Icewind Dale ever...

 

[agris]

You wrote that you "just moved on" and later you wrote "I didn't even bother", both in the context of dragons and the magic system being shit. If you are too stupid to understand the meaning of the sentences you yourself constructed, then it's you who needs to fuck off.

"Just moved on"... because it was bugged you spastic.

Probably an odd suggestion, but perhaps apply the patches that have released for over a decade before you decide to play a game. Maybe?

Never patched Icewind Dale ever...

But why? Is it a RPG Tough Guy routine? Do you sneer at those that use rubbing alcohol on a wound? You clearly wanted to play the game, because you finished it, so why not patch it prior to playing?

 

[Anomander Rake]

I played Baldur's gate 1 around 12-15 times, Bg2 around 30 times with a variety of different builds.

My last 6 playthroughs on both bg1 and bg2 were no-reload and to be honest, some of the content of your review feels so wrong, and I usually play with a modded compilation to make the game harder..

They registered in the battle-log as having been fired, but no further info was provided, neither any hits nor any resisteds.

While I tend to agree about magic being op in higher levels, you are alerted by the log about what happened. Actually the only thing that needs fixing, and a mod does that, is that you aren't said which spells the enemy mage is casting, while you should know, especially if you have a mage in the party.

Likewise, I defeated Irenicus at the tree by just running around the tree until all his shit wore off, at which point he appeared to have unlimited Magic Missiles

Irenicus, as the other mages, has limited spell selection. Bg mages are famous because when they finish the spells, they actually try to melee you. So this surprises me a bit.

And killing the Slayer? By the time I realised something screwy was going on I had already dealt 369 damage to it

Honestly I don't remember how many hp he is supposed to have, especially because I use tactics mod (scs, etc). But I doubt very much it goes over 350 hp, so something is definitely messed up in your install.


Game is flawed, that is true, but I think that by modding it you can fix almost every glaring issue it has. The only thing that can't be fixed is that no matter how many mods you use, ToB will turn at best from a 3 to a 6, no more, I guess 6.5\7 if you use the mod that adds Irenicus

 

[agris]

Sergio

To be fair, a decent amount of spell casters' AI (*.bcs files) include hard casting of lower level spells and don't bother to account for spells per level and memorization limits. There are some enemies, and various incarnations of Irenicus are included I believe, that are scripted such that they have infinite magic missiles, for example.

 

[Anomander Rake]

Damn, I didn't know. Could it be due to the fact that I usually play in a modded playthrough, and these instances\incarnations of various npcs may have been subbed by mods?

 

[agris]

Damn, I didn't know. Could it be due to the fact that I usually play in a modded playthrough, and these instances\incarnations of various npcs may have been subbed by mods?

Nyet, I doubt it. The behavior is more obvious to the cheese / kiting crowd, rather than those that engage in the lock-key spell casting dynamic characteristic of the BGs. Unless you engage in routines like "run around the tree until spell protections are exhausted", you probably haven't seen this behavior - but it exists.

edit: Kangaxx, while an edge case, is an easily identifiable example of it. He clearly doesn't respect spell casting rules (even lich one-off rules for one such as he), and his AI is full of hard triggers for spells that doesn't even try to stick to AD&D 2e rules.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

But why? Is it a RPG Tough Guy routine? Do you sneer at those that use rubbing alcohol on a wound? You clearly wanted to play the game, because you finished it, so why not patch it prior to playing?

A touch guy routine? LOL, it's a tough guy routine to expect a game in it's collected edition a year or two after release to be relatively bug-free? I'm sorry, but LOL.

It may surprise some people, but not everyone who plays every game is going to be a dedicated fanboy of that game and consider consuming their time researching and installing any number of patches, unofficial or official to a game before they even know what issues they might or might not give a shit about.

As someone who's a dedicated Icewind Dale fanboy, the fact that Icewind Dale is a relatively bug-free experience to all but stuff that is barely noticeable to even experts, and for whom is rather fed-up of people constantly promoting both games and devs that don't give two shit about bugs because the game allows you to do some weird niche shit that other games don't do really fucks me off. Call it a pet peeve, but it is not my fucking job to make someone else's game work properly, and I'll judge a game based on whatever fucking version I'm playing accordingly. If BG2 requires you to patch it on many issues which are already well known before the collected edition even hits the shelf then that's a negative about the game. Sorry sweetheart, I'm not breaking a sweat promoting shit-tier ideology and I'm certainly not in the habit of using my time or judgement to mend someone else's broken shit. It's a whole world of attitude I find completely abhorrent.

 

[Lacrymas]

You are on the 'Dex, we are all fanboys of RPGs here, so yes, it's pretty normal to expect someone on here to read up on basic things like patches before playing any kind of game. Not to mention that large games like RPGs tend to be breeding grounds for bugs and, if it's a good one, the community tends to ...nudge it in the right direction.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

You are on the 'Dex, we are all fanboys of RPGs here, so yes, it's pretty normal to expect someone on here to read up on basic things like patches before playing any kind of game. Not to mention that large games like RPGs tend to be breeding grounds for bugs and, if it's a good one, the community tends to ...nudge it in the right direction.

I'm fully aware of this...

... that's why I called it a pet peeve of mine.

You know, like how some people don't like Elves, like how some people don't like crap writing, like how some people don't like homo-plot-lines, etc etc etc. Pet peeves...

 

[GarfunkeL]

Damn, I didn't know. Could it be due to the fact that I usually play in a modded playthrough, and these instances\incarnations of various npcs may have been subbed by mods?

Nyet, I doubt it.

Fixpack sorts most NPCs out when it comes to "illegal" spell casting and SCS2 does the same. They also adjust the behaviour of spells to be more P&P like. I'm pretty sure that they fix endless spell-like abilities as well.

But yeah, just read some out of context words and write whatever you want, cos that's what conversation is all about, that's what real men do, right?

I literally copied the words from your original big post AND I wrote what the context for them was. It's your own fault if you write like shit or if you later change your mind regarding the meaning of what you had written before. It is idiotic to attack other posters for not being able to READ YOUR FUCKING MIND. We can only respond based on the content and context of your posts. Nobody has twisted those around to attack you.

And yeah, your fucking weird obsession with not-patching does not make you smart. It literally makes you retarded.

 

[agris]

Damn, I didn't know. Could it be due to the fact that I usually play in a modded playthrough, and these instances\incarnations of various npcs may have been subbed by mods?

Nyet, I doubt it.

Fixpack sorts most NPCs out when it comes to "illegal" spell casting and SCS2 does the same. They also adjust the behaviour of spells to be more P&P like. I'm pretty sure that they fix endless spell-like abilities as well.

I use those mods when I play BG2 and there are plenty of caster scripts that use hard casting. Again, you might not realize it based on your play style, but edge cases can make it more obvious (as does looking at the BCS files of some casters).

A touch guy routine? LOL, it's a tough guy routine to expect a game in it's collected edition a year or two after release to be relatively bug-free? I'm sorry, but LOL.

It may surprise some people, but not everyone who plays every game is going to be a dedicated fanboy of that game and consider consuming their time researching and installing any number of patches, unofficial or official to a game before they even know what issues they might or might not give a shit about.

IncendiaryDevice The logic that says to patch a game is to be a fanboy of it is... well, it's something. If you think it makes sense to pump 50+ hours into a game and be annoyed at bugs that can be easily fixed (googling "GAMENAME PATCH").. again, I do not understand this logic. By "collected edition", I assume you mean the Collector's Edition? That's the original gold master version.. it was released simultaneously with the regular release, but in a fancier box with gold CDs.

It's a shame that you're so closed minded about your approach, because from your post that started all this, you clearly were interested in presenting the community with your analysis of the game. Why invest the time in playing and writing an analysis when you don't invest a miniscule amount of time to apply the most recent official patch, much less take the extra 10 min (max, for someone who has trouble navigating files on their computer) to install the BG2 fixpack? I don't get it. I guess, from your point of view, it's because you aren't a "fanboy" and you find the idea of doing such abhorrent. But that doesn't really doesn't tell me anything, because being a fanboy and patching a game have nothing to do with each other.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

I literally copied the words from your original big post AND I wrote what the context for them was.

Absolute bollocks.

The logic that says to patch a game is to be a fanboy of it is... well, it's something. If you think it makes sense to pump 50+ hours into a game and be annoyed at bugs that can be easily fixed (googling "GAMENAME PATCH").. again, I do not understand this logic. By "collected edition", I assume you mean the Collector's Edition? That's the original gold master version.. it was released simultaneously with the regular release, but in a fancier box with gold CDs.

No deary, collected edition meaning it had all of it in one box, base game and expansion. Meaning, no, it was not released at the same time as the base game...

You certainly do have to be a rabbid fanboy to not accept that bugs in a game are not a flaw because you yourself have the option to solve them via additional searches and downloads that are not even mentioned in the game's notes. By your criteria a game like Oblivion is completely devoid of criticism because, hey bro, don'tcha'know you can just google umpteen mods and patches that turns it into a game you actually like. What makes you a fanboy is the complete inability to have the exact same principles when talking about different games: "My game is perfect because I can change it into a game I like"... "your game is crap because you have to change it into a game you like". Fucking laughable.

Why don't devs just make templates for people to fuck around with? Oh, wait, Bioware actually did this... and people shit on it because it's not BG3 when they were promised BG3 and have no intention of ever making a game with it because of that... Yeah, I get what makes someone a fanboy, but a fanboy doesn't, and never will.

 

[agris]

My mistake, I thought you were trying to have an actual conversation.



Carry on!

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

My mistake, I thought you were trying to have an actual conversation.



Carry on!

Really? I thought you were just poking around for cracks because someone didn't give a game you like 100%...

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Ok, so you disagree.

So what conversation were you having?

You want to turn this into a debate on the merits of To Patch or Not To Patch a Game? And To what Extent Should We Judge a Game Based on Playing Which Patches?

Have you any idea how ludicrous that whole concept is?

I mean, there you are quite enjoying a game, and this patch issue turns up. "Oh, LOL, Irenicus has infinite Magic Missiles". At this precise moment in the game is one supposed to stop still, log-out the game, then go look for a patch for this one specific issue? An issue that doesn't even impact your progression, has already happened and likely wont happen again? A fact about the game that is worthy of mentioning as a form of critique, but not something that would make one rush out and start searching the internet for solutions?

That, before playing a game, you engage in in-depth searching and discussions to find out exactly what patches should or shouldn't be used, when you have absolutely no idea if anything there-in is even needed or relevant. That experiencing a game as it was experienced by the majority who played it in its hayday is somehow a "stupid" idea compared to playing some modern bastardised version that barely anyone has ever played, but somehow contradicts a small but hilarious issue the game has?

Do you not get any of that?

 

[Baardhaas]

Damn, I didn't know. Could it be due to the fact that I usually play in a modded playthrough, and these instances\incarnations of various npcs may have been subbed by mods?

Nyet, I doubt it. The behavior is more obvious to the cheese / kiting crowd, rather than those that engage in the lock-key spell casting dynamic characteristic of the BGs. Unless you engage in routines like "run around the tree until spell protections are exhausted", you probably haven't seen this behavior - but it exists.

edit: Kangaxx, while an edge case, is an easily identifiable example of it. He clearly doesn't respect spell casting rules (even lich one-off rules for one such as he), and his AI is full of hard triggers for spells that doesn't even try to stick to AD&D 2e rules.

Wouldn't this render spells like summon nishruu/hakeashar completely useless? I think I've toyed around with these summons with some success in the planar sphere, memory is a bit vague though.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Okay, mister Absolute Bollocks:

Another reason I started to lose interest was because I discovered that I'm not particularly bothered by the much vaunted high-level mage spell-casting that the game gradually turns into. I saw no great value in pre-preparing any contingencies, triggers or time stops and when the enemy did it it just made combats boring and frustrating as I sat there looking at a dead screen for up to a full minute while the AI went through it's spell-casting motions with nothing to do but twiddle my thumbs. Also, while using magic was invaluable for killing the Chapter 3 dragons, the two later dragons, the silver and black dragon, the game just presented you with unique abilities that you'd never guess what their counter was anyway. I looked up the counter to Wing Buffet and found it was Spell Shield, duly shielded my two mages with the spell and then cast loads of anti-resistance magic and followed it up with magic missiles, but the missiles did nothing, They registered in the battle-log as having been fired, but no further info was provided, neither any hits nor any resisteds. I just moved on. Likewise, no idea what Black Dragon Breath is or how to counter it, looked up some hints and just used summons, something I had completely forgotten about after summons had been completely useless against all previous dragons. I didn't even bother trying the green dragon. Likewise, I defeated Irenicus at the tree by just running around the tree until all his shit wore off, at which point he appeared to have unlimited Magic Missiles, fired off at a machine gun pace. Luckily Jahira was immune to them and by the time she killed him he'd fired off 51 (!) Magic Missiles at her. Sure... that's, like, playing the game right there game... and throughout I noticed an awful lot of enemies which weren't necessarily 'playing by the rules', which reminded me of the prison mage in the original Baldur's Gate who seemed to have unlimited spells casting.

As you can see, my passionate if tad retarded friend, your paragraph begins with expressing your dissatisfaction with high-level magic. You slammed the dragon fights and clearly stated that you "moved on" from the black dragon and didn't even bother trying the green dragon. You did not say anything about the game's plot suggesting you to do so, rather such comments came immediately after and were immediately followed by more complaints about spells and magic.

Since nobody can read your mind to fathom what you REALLY were thinking, it's really pathetic to afterward try to claim you meant something else when people question your analysis. And yes, I can call you retarded because of your behaviour in this thread, like the insistence on not patching the game and your attempts to backpedal from your own claims.