The Codexian Saga LP

[anus_pounder]

CBA

BA

Reforms FFS.

 

[RandomLurker]

I believe this may be a good time for me to delurk for good. I have been following this thread from the start, may as well start participating.

You know, I don't believe that the votes for both issues should have to be cast separately, especially since both decisions are related. There's actually 6 possible outcomes here so, for instance, this should probably be made a possible legal vote:

CA
BB
CB
BA
AB
AA

Also, I hope I'm not out of order if I say that's my vote. The reform is badly needed, or in the long term the Venerable Respublica risks falling behind both technologically and economically, and that only helps the xeno. On the other hand too broad a reform at once WILL anger the zealous Marianites, possibly leading to utter collapse (and it's not like good intentions haven't lead to a catastrophically crippled the Codexian goverment before). Actually, any reform would probably do that, but there's a variable degree to that. Sacrificing short term gain for long term is all well and good, unless it kills you, so we should probably hold back on total reform right now. Lets have a look at those options:

BB - The reintegrated commos have started getting a proper economy going in the Respublica. So long as we don't kill that outright, the option to make a total reform should still be available at a later date. On the other hand, this opportunity to get a bit of tolerance back into the society is pretty unique. Also, AIs. Stomping down on the remnants of FAITH would probably involve destroying the last remaining ones for good (unless that already happened, we could use a word on that). Predicted backslash against the state - moderate to high, but we should be able to handle that. It's already something of a gamble, but it could pay off very much.
CA - This is the other "limited sweeping reform" option. Reforming the economy is also ultimately a neccesity, but like I said before, it should still be possible at a later date, so it's a lower priority. Still, if it were to be done now, it probably shouldn't be coupled with an extreme social change, as the support toward the emerging middle class will be seen as betreyal by the zealous Marianites. Predicted backslash against the state against the state - similar to BB.
CB - This is the real gambler option. Both the risks and potential rewards are very high. Predicted backslash against the state - ridiculous, we may not be able to handle it, but if it does it would probably be worth it.
BA - The "small, incremental reform" option. It's much safer than the previous ones, but obviously also leads to smaller potential rewards. Predicted backslash against the state - low to moderate.
AA - The "preserve the status quo" option. While there would be backslash from the emerging middle class, it would most likely be smaller than the one from the zealous, and ultimately it would lead to greater stability - at the cost of the technology and the economy. Basically, we'd be using our time to make sure things don't actually get better (or worse). Predicted backslash against the state - low.
AB - This one is just schisophrenic. Here we're both showing the general populace how to deal with those not strictly conforming to the current Marianite ideal, AND we'd be letting such people into our society without the state doing anything about it. The internal stability would be shot to hell. Predicted backslash against the state - moderate.

On the other hand, if this mode of voting is illegal, my vote is:
1: BCA
2: BA

EDIT: Flip flop.
1: CBA
2: AB

 

[Nickless]

The guys talking about revolts in reaction to the reforms I don't really understand. It reads to me that there will be more likely revolts from B and A of the first option than with C. We're told that the value of frugality in our religion is steadily eroding away with the resources we are currently enjoying. A is going against the tide, and B is ignoring it entirely.

The second option doesn't concern me so much, although I would like us to eventually discover biological immortality for our people. Allow only gene mods that retain the shape and look of humanity.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

BCA

BA

 

[taplonaplo]

CBA, B
Marianism was fun, but it's time to try something else too.

 

[obediah]

BAC - BA

Flop-flipped to help B out.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

CBA: BA

 

[Conkrete Knight]

BAC- A

Keeping unchecked pockets of disgruntled enemies of the state?
Not on my watch.

 

[obediah]

I vote for using the 'list every option in descending rank of approval' less frequently. It sucks the debate and politicking right out of the thread.

 

[Murk]

I won't be voting this round, especially since things seem pretty much decided anyway.

Very curious no one preferred choice A in option 2, what happened to all you 40k sluts?

 

[treave]

The keyword here is sluts.

 

[Conkrete Knight]

I won't be voting this round, especially since things seem pretty much decided anyway.

Very curious no one preferred choice A in option 2, what happened to all you 40k sluts?

No one?

 

[anus_pounder]

Good Riddance. Its time for some Reforms!

 

[obediah]

I won't be voting this round, especially since things seem pretty much decided anyway.

Very curious no one preferred choice A in option 2, what happened to all you 40k sluts?

They were never a majority. They won a few split votes and got a boost on a few votes from the lulz crowd ( e.g. "I voted B just to see what direction Conan would take it in" ). I think this is the first chance at reform with any chance of success, so we're jumping on it. CB is scary as fuck though, I think it's too fast for the old guard - we'll end up in civil war again.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I'm with root here guys.

BB.[/siz]

C for option one sounds nice but you're talking about starting the next civil war, splintering and having religious zealots (possibly with shielded ships) fucking everything over right when we're pretty set. Just let it happen, don't rock the boat and later we can look at officially endorsing the change.

Even so, I think we're going to see civil unrest.

 

[treave]

Voting BB.

Didn't notice when it broke the 100,000 mark, but this thread now has 109,000+ views.

 

[The Barbarian]

and I really wish Conan would relent here and let us integrate just the FAITH, why does it come tied to integrating the Phyr?

To the man on the street, a six armed human is not that far removed from a true xenoform. Neither is a human brain in a synthetic body, nor many of the thousand other iterations of the Tainted physical form.

You can integrate some of the Tainted, and the relevant option provides for that.

 

[praetor]

BCA/AB

 

[wjw]

Following Root on this one! Social stability is of the greatest importance and has given us this 'golden age'.

BCA/AB

 

[taplonaplo]

BCA/AB

yeah i'm gonna go with that as well

as much as i want some reforms, anything else is just way too dangerous for the respublica.

We aren't threatened by anyone at all so i don't see how social instability is dangerous now in any way.

 

[Radech]

I'm flip-flopping, still not sold on B as i think it will create a powerful minority of rich bankers and merchants, and jealousy is a bitch - worst case this will be more similar to A than to C. But I've had it with the furries and since the FAITH are too different to be integrated short term i say we get rid of them before we start reforms - of course this might pose problems with transitioning to a more free society, but they are gonna be short term if we do it right(aka leave no survivors to claim reclamations and build casinos).

so flopping to CBA - AB it seems like a bad compromise and probably is...

 

[taplonaplo]

How do you expect changes when you not use the opportunity when it arises? Yeah, it will have a backlash, so what? I rather see that than another external threat arising (coz that's kinda what happens when there's no internal one).

 

[Nickless]

How do you expect changes when you not use the opportunity when it arises? Yeah, it will have a backlash, so what? I rather see that than another external threat arising (coz that's kinda what happens when there's no internal one).

The man speaks truth! We'll have some short term social upheaval, but really C seems to be the best, least messy way of reforming Marianism to have a more competitive edge. I'd even argue that B is the worst option, leading to a powerful middle-class resenting the inertia ridden government and finally revolting. Hell, by letting the middle-class grow in power, and then ignoring them, you're setting yourself up for a fall. Either stamp them out while they're small, or support them.

 

[RandomLurker]

We could use the word from the Barbarian on whether the FAITH remnants inlcude bootleg copies of our original AIs (not to mention the possibility of more advanced ones). If not, then they don't really have that much of value to offer in comparison to having an actual economy, and CA becomes a very tempting option.

 

[The Barbarian]

We could use the word from the Barbarian on whether the FAITH remnants inlcude bootleg copies of our original AIs (not to mention the possibility of more advanced ones).

They did.

The current government of the Respublica, however, looks upon true AIs as an abomination.

Codexian Humanity never lost the ability to build AIs. Only every iota of intent to do so. For all intents and purposes, consider them a non-factor at this stage.