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The Codexian Saga LP
- Thread starter The Barbarian
- Start date
Good luck with your exams!
The Barbarian
Liturgist
That is not an unreasonable conclusion.
(The double negative has been unleashed; truly the season of law exams has begun.)
EDIT:
This response was directed at root.
The Hin'in, in the Barbarian's mind, have fewer skin folds on their faces, naturally gray skin and very startling blue eyes (though red and purple hues have also been observed).
The Hin'in will receive the same treatment as the Phyr and the Raumeni (a codex entry), once the present chain of decisions is concluded.
(The double negative has been unleashed; truly the season of law exams has begun.)
EDIT:
This response was directed at root.
The Hin'in, in the Barbarian's mind, have fewer skin folds on their faces, naturally gray skin and very startling blue eyes (though red and purple hues have also been observed).
The Hin'in will receive the same treatment as the Phyr and the Raumeni (a codex entry), once the present chain of decisions is concluded.
The Barbarian
Liturgist
No unusual activity, hitherto.
The Barbarian
Liturgist
Conan prefers the Battle of the Mounds - the mostly re-used soundtrack is the only good thing about the second movie depicting his early life. Oh, Valeria! The Barbarian will shed no tears; Subotei must do it for him.
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2008
- Messages
- 11,370
Here's hoping for a successful campaign of the likes of the CSS Arachnophobia, CSS A Bug's Life and CSS Sting Like A Butterfly, in their legendary assault on the Raumen clans.
The CSS Two-Eyes Good Four-Eyes Bad will be rolling into service soon, the first of our new warships outfitted specifically to combat the Hin'in. Soon every fleet will be replenished with upgraded vessels and we will be ready to crush the quad-ocular menace.
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2008
- Messages
- 11,370
Ah, the Massive Effect. Much hopes are pinned on that one.
This makes me realize that we must begin standardizing the naming themes for our vessels. Ships produced in certain sectors seem to be prone to being given very whimsical names, especially since we introduced AIs.
Take, for instance, the CSS FFS.
This makes me realize that we must begin standardizing the naming themes for our vessels. Ships produced in certain sectors seem to be prone to being given very whimsical names, especially since we introduced AIs.
Take, for instance, the CSS FFS.
The Barbarian
Liturgist
The Sinews of War, the Price of Peace
A thousand ships lost. Losses that should be beyond imagining. Yet, when the Codexian government asked for more, the people relented. They gave it - and everything else demanded by the state. Conscription was enacted, but proved hardly necessary. Millions of volunteers were clogging up the recruitment system, essentially overloading it. Enormous numbers of new vessels were built, as Codexia's famed industry shifted into gear. Even as the 10th Fleet was almost destroyed in a fleet action around Indigo V, the reconstituted 11th was deployed along the front. Casualties rose into the hundreds of thousands. The Hin'in were a cold and calculating foe. They would strike human formations and then quickly retreat, before reinforcements could arrive. When confronted by strong Codexian forces, they would give way, conducting masterfully co-ordinated fighting withdrawals. The humans - bless them - kept pouring new meat into the grinder.
And, as the months rolled on, and a thousand more ships were added to the loss tally, this stratagem began to produce results. The Hin'in, for all their battlefield prowess, were obviously less inured to casualties than their human foes. Whereas the Codexians would throw a hundred ships away to destroy a battlegroup of twenty Hin'in vessels, the psionically gifted aliens were never comfortable with such arithmetic. The clean, sterile war they had seemingly wished to fight became a death grapple. As 269AU dawned on the universe, the Hin'in found themselves giving ground. To be certain, they continued to savage human formations with uncanny regularity, but it was a struggle they were coming perilously close to forfeiting. The sons and daughters of Codexia bled for their nation. Their resolve was grim.
It was at that point, in February 269AU, that the unthinkable happened. The young world (a new politically correct term replacing 'colony') known as Leonid declared its independence from the Codexian federal republic, unilaterally. It had already previously had its far share of separatist struggle (in the 220s), but now it seemed as if more of the (much larger) population had decided that this was the best course of action. The local Codexian Army garrison voluntarily surrendered their arms, for the most part. Those that chose not to were given safe conduct off-world. A few small formations entered into open battle with the separatists, but those engagements seldom ended well. Leonid had simply become fed up with the central government. Behind the overweening paternalistic nationalism of the core worlders was a sad picture of impending socio-economic failure. This is exemplified by the following: a single frigate cost more than nine hundred million credits to produce. Nearly four hundred frigates had so far been destroyed during the conflict, and another five hundred had been built. The economic cost of the whole affair was by now approaching about twenty percent of the GDP.
Something had to give. There were no foreign partners to secure wartime loans from. The banks were dry, as a source of capital. Private investors were completely overcommitted, already. The public was already having its marrow sucked out, taxation-wise. Codexia (the homeworld) and the oldest colonies nonetheless stood proudly and accepted the privations as a matter of course. The younger worlds, however, were outraged. Five other worlds quickly followed suit, after Leonid, and together they officially announced the formation of the Commonwealth on 26 April 269AU. A new interplanetary state now existed, in a de-facto sense. The independence proclamations rocked Codexia to the core. Stock markets crashed overnight, liquidating multi-billion credit investments and wiping away almost a trillion credits from the economy. Social welfare no longer had the funds to pay out pensions and other benefits. The warchest was running completely dry.
Codexia faces the darkest period of its history. It is threatened with an enveloping, catastrophic system failure. How will it respond to the challenge posed thereby?
Choice A: The Independents
Do you... wearily recognize the Commonwealth as a peer?
OR
Do you... refuse to recognize the Commonwealth, instead claiming that it is an illegal construct? However, you also choose to concentrate on the Hin'in War, rather than expending your martial energies on your fellow Codexians. They can wait.
OR
Do you... pull requisite forces away from the front, and intervene militarily on Leonid and the other separatist colonies?
Choice B: The Hin'in
Do you... unleash your forces against the Hin'in in much the same way as you have done so far, in an attempt to overwhelm the tottering aliens decisively?
OR
Do you... slow down the tempo of operations, giving both sides a strategic breather, while you resolve outstanding issues on the homefront?
Choice C: The Homefront
The war has had catastrophic consequences for the Codexian homefront. Choose an effect:
Do you... badly slow down shipbuilding, as funds dry up? Your fleets will begin declining, steadily, if they are still committed to the war.
OR
Do you... slash social programs further? Healthcare, education and social welfare will be the main victims of your belt tightening, as you look for funds to continue the struggle with.
OR
Do you... begin printing money recklessly? This will buy you (literally) perhaps three months of breathing space, before inflation spirals out of control.
A thousand ships lost. Losses that should be beyond imagining. Yet, when the Codexian government asked for more, the people relented. They gave it - and everything else demanded by the state. Conscription was enacted, but proved hardly necessary. Millions of volunteers were clogging up the recruitment system, essentially overloading it. Enormous numbers of new vessels were built, as Codexia's famed industry shifted into gear. Even as the 10th Fleet was almost destroyed in a fleet action around Indigo V, the reconstituted 11th was deployed along the front. Casualties rose into the hundreds of thousands. The Hin'in were a cold and calculating foe. They would strike human formations and then quickly retreat, before reinforcements could arrive. When confronted by strong Codexian forces, they would give way, conducting masterfully co-ordinated fighting withdrawals. The humans - bless them - kept pouring new meat into the grinder.
And, as the months rolled on, and a thousand more ships were added to the loss tally, this stratagem began to produce results. The Hin'in, for all their battlefield prowess, were obviously less inured to casualties than their human foes. Whereas the Codexians would throw a hundred ships away to destroy a battlegroup of twenty Hin'in vessels, the psionically gifted aliens were never comfortable with such arithmetic. The clean, sterile war they had seemingly wished to fight became a death grapple. As 269AU dawned on the universe, the Hin'in found themselves giving ground. To be certain, they continued to savage human formations with uncanny regularity, but it was a struggle they were coming perilously close to forfeiting. The sons and daughters of Codexia bled for their nation. Their resolve was grim.
It was at that point, in February 269AU, that the unthinkable happened. The young world (a new politically correct term replacing 'colony') known as Leonid declared its independence from the Codexian federal republic, unilaterally. It had already previously had its far share of separatist struggle (in the 220s), but now it seemed as if more of the (much larger) population had decided that this was the best course of action. The local Codexian Army garrison voluntarily surrendered their arms, for the most part. Those that chose not to were given safe conduct off-world. A few small formations entered into open battle with the separatists, but those engagements seldom ended well. Leonid had simply become fed up with the central government. Behind the overweening paternalistic nationalism of the core worlders was a sad picture of impending socio-economic failure. This is exemplified by the following: a single frigate cost more than nine hundred million credits to produce. Nearly four hundred frigates had so far been destroyed during the conflict, and another five hundred had been built. The economic cost of the whole affair was by now approaching about twenty percent of the GDP.
Something had to give. There were no foreign partners to secure wartime loans from. The banks were dry, as a source of capital. Private investors were completely overcommitted, already. The public was already having its marrow sucked out, taxation-wise. Codexia (the homeworld) and the oldest colonies nonetheless stood proudly and accepted the privations as a matter of course. The younger worlds, however, were outraged. Five other worlds quickly followed suit, after Leonid, and together they officially announced the formation of the Commonwealth on 26 April 269AU. A new interplanetary state now existed, in a de-facto sense. The independence proclamations rocked Codexia to the core. Stock markets crashed overnight, liquidating multi-billion credit investments and wiping away almost a trillion credits from the economy. Social welfare no longer had the funds to pay out pensions and other benefits. The warchest was running completely dry.
Codexia faces the darkest period of its history. It is threatened with an enveloping, catastrophic system failure. How will it respond to the challenge posed thereby?
Choice A: The Independents
Do you... wearily recognize the Commonwealth as a peer?
OR
Do you... refuse to recognize the Commonwealth, instead claiming that it is an illegal construct? However, you also choose to concentrate on the Hin'in War, rather than expending your martial energies on your fellow Codexians. They can wait.
OR
Do you... pull requisite forces away from the front, and intervene militarily on Leonid and the other separatist colonies?
Choice B: The Hin'in
Do you... unleash your forces against the Hin'in in much the same way as you have done so far, in an attempt to overwhelm the tottering aliens decisively?
OR
Do you... slow down the tempo of operations, giving both sides a strategic breather, while you resolve outstanding issues on the homefront?
Choice C: The Homefront
The war has had catastrophic consequences for the Codexian homefront. Choose an effect:
Do you... badly slow down shipbuilding, as funds dry up? Your fleets will begin declining, steadily, if they are still committed to the war.
OR
Do you... slash social programs further? Healthcare, education and social welfare will be the main victims of your belt tightening, as you look for funds to continue the struggle with.
OR
Do you... begin printing money recklessly? This will buy you (literally) perhaps three months of breathing space, before inflation spirals out of control.
Ooo! Choices! Yum-yum!
Alrighty then!
Choice A:
Option B
We can't afford to relent in our struggle against the psychic, four-eyed hobbits. But the seperatists shouldn't expect us to just bend over..
Choice B:
Option A
If we relent now, our momentum is lost. This is bitter in-fighting, and the Hin'in seem to have little stomach for it. To give them time to breathe now would see us lose our drive.
Choice C:
This one was the hardest for me to choose..
Option A
We can ill afford to lose vessels at our current rate, but we must. At the same time, we risk feeding the fires of seperatism, if we do not do something. And inflation is bad, mm'kay? So. I stake my faith on our proud Codexian navy, that they can get the job done, even if their numbers dwindle.
Alrighty then!
Choice A:
Option B
We can't afford to relent in our struggle against the psychic, four-eyed hobbits. But the seperatists shouldn't expect us to just bend over..
Choice B:
Option A
If we relent now, our momentum is lost. This is bitter in-fighting, and the Hin'in seem to have little stomach for it. To give them time to breathe now would see us lose our drive.
Choice C:
This one was the hardest for me to choose..
Option A
We can ill afford to lose vessels at our current rate, but we must. At the same time, we risk feeding the fires of seperatism, if we do not do something. And inflation is bad, mm'kay? So. I stake my faith on our proud Codexian navy, that they can get the job done, even if their numbers dwindle.
Tough situation.
I think we have overextended our capacities too much and it's now of utmost importance to consolidate our position and try to maintain our current strength and position as long as we are still strong enough to dictate the conditions of peace. Otherwise, we might be able to win the war(s), but we would then be left with a crumbling empire with hyper-inflation, an inflated war economy and serious domestic political problems.
Therefore, my votes:
A) I'm undecided between "recognition" and "war against them". Both points have their merits, but I guess it would be a bad signal to allow secession. Thus, my final vote goes to option c), fight them.
B) Option b), but also dispatch a diplomatic mission to the Hin'in to negotiate a cease fire to give us more room against the rebels.
C) Slow down the shipbuilding. An economic crisis might just be the tip of the iceberg, and could lead to widespread civil war, mutinies and unrest. We must prevent this at all costs.
I think we have overextended our capacities too much and it's now of utmost importance to consolidate our position and try to maintain our current strength and position as long as we are still strong enough to dictate the conditions of peace. Otherwise, we might be able to win the war(s), but we would then be left with a crumbling empire with hyper-inflation, an inflated war economy and serious domestic political problems.
Therefore, my votes:
A) I'm undecided between "recognition" and "war against them". Both points have their merits, but I guess it would be a bad signal to allow secession. Thus, my final vote goes to option c), fight them.
B) Option b), but also dispatch a diplomatic mission to the Hin'in to negotiate a cease fire to give us more room against the rebels.
C) Slow down the shipbuilding. An economic crisis might just be the tip of the iceberg, and could lead to widespread civil war, mutinies and unrest. We must prevent this at all costs.
taplonaplo
Scholar
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2008
- Messages
- 628
Choice A:
Option A, we can't fight the war on two fronts, and frankly i rather show my back towards humans than the Hin'in scum. As much as it pains me, in the long run i think it pays off to have more or less loyal neighbors.
Choice B:
Option A, we didn't come this far to pull back. We knew exactly what we were getting. The Hin'in menace must be stopped.
Choice C:
Happy flipper ..., i hope that our current forces are big enough to corner the Hin'in into surrender, but i don't think even that's worth the risk of complete collapse of our system.
Option A, we can't fight the war on two fronts, and frankly i rather show my back towards humans than the Hin'in scum. As much as it pains me, in the long run i think it pays off to have more or less loyal neighbors.
Choice B:
Option A, we didn't come this far to pull back. We knew exactly what we were getting. The Hin'in menace must be stopped.
Choice C:
Happy flipper ..., i hope that our current forces are big enough to corner the Hin'in into surrender, but i don't think even that's worth the risk of complete collapse of our system.
I am torn. On the one hand, I am tempted to say that we've battered the Hi'in sufficiently to buy us time. However, allowing that seems just sign a delayed death warrant: the Hi'in aren't going to hang around with their newly expanded empire before wiping us out. We must gamble everything on victory.
My past record of caution speaks for itself. No doubt others on this council have called me a coward, a peacenik, or worse. However, at all times I have acted to maximize our chances of survival. At this dark hour, our only hope of survival is the desperate gamble I put before you.
1) B
Isolated colonies aren't a threat. Refuse recognition - they'll come crawling back if we win the war. If we don't, they are doomed too. Fighting them is unnecessary, and ill advised.
2) A
Press on. Press them to defeat. This should be sufficient to relax our economy and return from the brink of disaster.
3) C
Print money. Flagrant inflation is a price we should be willing to pay. A risks losing the war with the Hi'in, B risks full blown, crippling insurrection. We cannot afford these risks, as they will destroy us in an instant. C keeps the boat steady - for now. Three months will be enough. It has to be.
My hope is that three months will give us enough time to beat the Hi'in and secure lovely concessions. We can use these to bargain the seperatists back to our side. We can then return to advance and expand.
My past record of caution speaks for itself. No doubt others on this council have called me a coward, a peacenik, or worse. However, at all times I have acted to maximize our chances of survival. At this dark hour, our only hope of survival is the desperate gamble I put before you.
1) B
Isolated colonies aren't a threat. Refuse recognition - they'll come crawling back if we win the war. If we don't, they are doomed too. Fighting them is unnecessary, and ill advised.
2) A
Press on. Press them to defeat. This should be sufficient to relax our economy and return from the brink of disaster.
3) C
Print money. Flagrant inflation is a price we should be willing to pay. A risks losing the war with the Hi'in, B risks full blown, crippling insurrection. We cannot afford these risks, as they will destroy us in an instant. C keeps the boat steady - for now. Three months will be enough. It has to be.
My hope is that three months will give us enough time to beat the Hi'in and secure lovely concessions. We can use these to bargain the seperatists back to our side. We can then return to advance and expand.
Angthoron
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2007
- Messages
- 13,056
Vote flip-flop commenceth!
Will ponder more though. We must not lose momentum. And the bloody Leonid should have been charred the first time they ever spoke. Damn their traitor ilk. I'm tempted to open a second front on them, though.
What sort of military strength do they possess?
Also to consider: Leonid as an accepted state would help us support our economy during last phases of this war.
Will ponder more though. We must not lose momentum. And the bloody Leonid should have been charred the first time they ever spoke. Damn their traitor ilk. I'm tempted to open a second front on them, though.
What sort of military strength do they possess?
Also to consider: Leonid as an accepted state would help us support our economy during last phases of this war.
since reason has abandoned most of the councilors for quite a few sessions, i, too, will embrace the way of non-wisdom:
A:
war on 2 fronts while our economy and social stability is on the brink of implosion? FUCK YEA, i vote C
B:
to be consistent with^ i have to vote A
C:
let's completely devastate our economy ASAP. vote for C!
A:
war on 2 fronts while our economy and social stability is on the brink of implosion? FUCK YEA, i vote C
B:
to be consistent with^ i have to vote A
C:
let's completely devastate our economy ASAP. vote for C!
laclongquan
Arcane
HOLY BOVINE OF CODEXIA!
Damn! It's time to review situation. We cant afford to make the wrong choice here.
Inner tensions:
1. Colony vs Homeworld. This is an underlying problem and never seem to got resolved completely. The 5 is just the pioneer. If we recognize them a massive number of brothers and sisters MAY join them as well. I dont discount the Hiin subtle intervention here but I dont dismiss this native problem, either.
2. AI. Never forget the soulless menace.
3. Phyr. No problem so far but also should not be out of sight, out of mind either.
4. The cost of war. This terrible cost shame me, but perhaps we also have to ask yourself whether we should pay worse money after bad. The burden are threaten to knock our heads off.
Outer threats:
1. The Hiin got bleed very badly but ONE whether victory is at hand is unclear and TWO that victory might well be the last gasp of mighty Codexia.
2. The lizard seem content to stay inside their border so we got relief there.
3. The bugs still doesnt rise up? Most unexpectedly. I thought those hyperinvidualistic buggers would have risen up at such precious chance. even if the planet garrison got mindreader.
Solution:
Let's take it in order of most urgently:
Hiin front: Should we enter an informal truce? My gut say yes. To conquer the world we must conquer ourself first. How can we hope to win if our own house is in a mess? Still, the battlefield is unclear. Currently it's still in Raumen systems, yes? If so, where? Border with us? Central system? Border with hiin? This fact might well decide the direction of this step.
Homefront: Running away Inflation is a menace. It might well kick other fencesitters into the other side, so we should avoid this if possible. Same deal with slashing social programs. I think C1 is about the only choice.
The Commonwealth Question: The rift is widening. I am not entirely sure that send troops in will heal it. But recognize them is dangerous also, as the fencesitter may jump onto that side. A2, refuse to recognize them but dont send troops in, is a delay action.
In the end, this time I must vote on a delaying measure. We simply cant conduct the war in such a extravagant way anymore. Due to domestic problem, we simply have to enter a state of truce, both to adequate resolve problem, both to wait for Hiin's flag of negotiation. B2 it is.
A2
B2
C1
Damn! It's time to review situation. We cant afford to make the wrong choice here.
Inner tensions:
1. Colony vs Homeworld. This is an underlying problem and never seem to got resolved completely. The 5 is just the pioneer. If we recognize them a massive number of brothers and sisters MAY join them as well. I dont discount the Hiin subtle intervention here but I dont dismiss this native problem, either.
2. AI. Never forget the soulless menace.
3. Phyr. No problem so far but also should not be out of sight, out of mind either.
4. The cost of war. This terrible cost shame me, but perhaps we also have to ask yourself whether we should pay worse money after bad. The burden are threaten to knock our heads off.
Outer threats:
1. The Hiin got bleed very badly but ONE whether victory is at hand is unclear and TWO that victory might well be the last gasp of mighty Codexia.
2. The lizard seem content to stay inside their border so we got relief there.
3. The bugs still doesnt rise up? Most unexpectedly. I thought those hyperinvidualistic buggers would have risen up at such precious chance. even if the planet garrison got mindreader.
Solution:
Let's take it in order of most urgently:
Hiin front: Should we enter an informal truce? My gut say yes. To conquer the world we must conquer ourself first. How can we hope to win if our own house is in a mess? Still, the battlefield is unclear. Currently it's still in Raumen systems, yes? If so, where? Border with us? Central system? Border with hiin? This fact might well decide the direction of this step.
Homefront: Running away Inflation is a menace. It might well kick other fencesitters into the other side, so we should avoid this if possible. Same deal with slashing social programs. I think C1 is about the only choice.
The Commonwealth Question: The rift is widening. I am not entirely sure that send troops in will heal it. But recognize them is dangerous also, as the fencesitter may jump onto that side. A2, refuse to recognize them but dont send troops in, is a delay action.
In the end, this time I must vote on a delaying measure. We simply cant conduct the war in such a extravagant way anymore. Due to domestic problem, we simply have to enter a state of truce, both to adequate resolve problem, both to wait for Hiin's flag of negotiation. B2 it is.
A2
B2
C1
Brotherman Bill
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2009
- Messages
- 6,933
The hin'in seem like calculating bastards, no more interested in losses than we are. If we attack quickly this last time, we might end the war quickly and have peace on favourable terms, and then devote our full attention towards our internal affairs. Therefore I propose that we put everything on one last, decisive attack and then propose negotiations. Ergo:
A-2, refuse to accept commonwealth (so that we can crush them later)
B-1, Unleash forces on hin'in
C-3, inflate our way out of it. Blame war profiteers, "greedy" businessmen and/or an ethnic minority for inflation, the people always buys that shit.
A-2, refuse to accept commonwealth (so that we can crush them later)
B-1, Unleash forces on hin'in
C-3, inflate our way out of it. Blame war profiteers, "greedy" businessmen and/or an ethnic minority for inflation, the people always buys that shit.
root said:
Yeah, but Germany losing WW1 fucked it all up anyway. Like we'll be if we don't beat the Hi'in.
Printing money is fine. Just think of it as borrowing from our future certain prosperity to prevent bankrupcy and destitution now. Or going for a burst damage attack against a low health mob.
GarfunkeL
Racism Expert
BAC
First we must crush the four-eyed bugs for good - we essentially have them on the ropes now! Then we can turn our Fleet towards the Race Traitors - rebelling when whole mankind is fighting for its very survival, such a notion can only be punished by the harshest measures imaginable. Money-printing will allow us to keep going - even hyper-inflation is a minor risk when contrasted against a dissolving star-nation or conquest by xenos!
First we must crush the four-eyed bugs for good - we essentially have them on the ropes now! Then we can turn our Fleet towards the Race Traitors - rebelling when whole mankind is fighting for its very survival, such a notion can only be punished by the harshest measures imaginable. Money-printing will allow us to keep going - even hyper-inflation is a minor risk when contrasted against a dissolving star-nation or conquest by xenos!
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2008
- Messages
- 11,370
root said:
Speak for yourself, Battle Brother. :D
Still, not recognizing the Commonwealth may result in them betraying us, throwing their lot in the Hin'in and opening up a second front in an attempt to avoid us coming back and purging their sorry asses later. Decadent, gutless xenos-lovers ungrateful for the concessions we made. They should have been cleansed with fire. Goddamned newfags. Ban them.
Will require clarification on these points:
I have voted thusly:
OPTION C. PURGE THE TRAITOROUS SCUM
OPTION B. STAY OUR HAND AGAINST THE FOUL PSYCHICS FOR NOW
OPTION B. CUT SOCIAL SPENDING, SEX AND THE CITY BE-DAMNED
edit: IT MUST BE THOSE DAMNED FOUR EYED PSYCHIC HOBBITS MIND CONTROLLING THE COMMONWEALTH SEPARATISTSGURGLEGURGLEGURGLE REMEMBER THE RAUMEN FLIPFLOPPPPPPPED!!!!!!!!!!
treave said:
quite the contrary, master Treave. do i have to remind you that most of the population in those border-worlds were against filthy xenos settling on their planets? do i need to remind you that it's the majority of the councilors, and not our beloved population, that are xeno-lovers?
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