From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[Damned Registrations]

I actually prefer the spider shield, but dragon crest certainly wins for fashion. Grass crest and iron round are clearly the best shields in the game though.

I think in terms of difficulty, Dark Souls is a hard game to get through without ever dying, which is a pretty low bar, but lets be real, you couldn't say the same about most AAA games these days.

 

[Akratus]

I've always completely overlooked the dex greatswords. Are any of them good in any of the games? I'm playing DS2 right now with a str build, using a greataxe but planning on switching to a zweihander or something. Any recommended weapons?

 

[Wunderbar]

I've always completely overlooked the dex greatswords.

Lucatiel's greatsword is pretty good.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I've always completely overlooked the dex greatswords. Are any of them good in any of the games? I'm playing DS2 right now with a str build, using a greataxe but planning on switching to a zweihander or something. Any recommended weapons?

Well, for starters, Zweihander is a quality / strength focused ultra greatsword, not dex. It may start off with a C in dex and D in str, but it will never gain an increase to dex scaling, while str will jump up to B once it hits +10.

Its a similar case with the Ivory King sword, where it starts off with a D in str and B in dex, but when you fully upgrade it it becomes B/B, making it more of a quality weapon.

If you want a dex ultra greatsword, you'll want the drakewing, which is supposed to be one of the best dex weapons out there.

If you mean just greatswords, there's actually a surprising number of them that are dex based rather than str based.

Drangleic, Llyoce, Charred Lyoce, Mirrah, Flamberge, and drakeblood all favor dex builds.

Of these, the Llyod and Mirrah greatswords are pretty nice. Royal and Flamberge have a bleed gimmick, Drangleic is heavy and needs twinkling, and drakeblood is a cool sword, but it wants petrified and has built in split damage.

Charred Llyoce is also pretty cool and its easier to get than the Lloyce, but it has lower dex scaling and built in fire damage.

Of course, Curved Greatwords typically have high dex scaling, with the exception of the Nil sword, which is strength based.

 

[Lutte]

If you mean just greatswords, there's actually a surprising number of them that are dex based rather than str based.

Keep in mind they are always slightly inferior to STR ones in DS2, in fact any weapon class that has a pure STR counterpart is worse when dex. That is true even of weapon classes that used to be pure dex like scimitars (best scimitar in the game is the Red Rust Scimitar STR scaling).
Which isn't to say doing a little less damage breaks the game, but keep that in mind if you're not interested in dex exclusive stuff like katanas.

The scaling issue kinda neutered "quality" types that scale with both STR and dex too. The Zweihander is not worth using over the Greatsword as far as early accessible UGS go unless you really fancy its moveset. In DS2 you only go quality if you just like the idea of being able to wield anything in the game.

You can see the effect on weapons that aren't even quality like the Mirrah. Mirrah has 358 AR with 16 base req STR and 40 dex. 357 AR with 40 STR and 20 dex. Remember that it has a "C scaling" in STR and A scaling in DEX. Yet it's like the STR bonus is only barely under the dex one. Mirrah may be a dex weapon but it does its best damage when you're built quality and it isn't inferior as a pure STR weapon if you don't go quality and prefer to put minimal points in DEX rather than go pure dex.

Early in the game when you still have to put points to get endurance, vigor, vit, adp, there's no reason to invest in more dex than the minimal dex requirement of whatever weapon class you fancy.

Of course, Curved Greatwords typically have high dex scaling, with the exception of the Nil sword, which is strength based.

Yet the best curved is more like a quality weapon. Curved Dragon has a str req of 30 and it's well worth pushing past 30. In fact if you build it say, 60 STR 18 dex, it does similar damage compared to 30 STR 40 DEX despite going into diminishing returns of high stats. Dex is that bad. A and S scaling of dex is more like having a C+ or B- in STR. If a weapon has less than A in dex I wouldn't even bother upgrading dex at all. Zwei at 60 STR, 12 dex is as valid as 40 STR and 40 dex and going pure STR just makes you the hardest motherfucking hitter when you swap to a really good weapon, one that has high STR scaling.

 

[Parabalus]

I think I'll run around a bit more to see where I end up, but could I end up "trapped" if I light a bad bonfire?

You respawn at the last bonfire you rested at but at the lightest equip load you can run faster than anything in the game.

Stats help, but keep in mind people have beaten the game at level 1, naked so player skill alone can get you through everything. Like it's been said, level health and stamina because it doesn't matter how much damage you do if you can only swing once and then die in one hit. Endurance should be raised to 40 since that is when it stops giving you stamina. Every point after that just increases your max equip load - useful only for tank builds.

Health also starts giving greatly diminished returns at around 30-40. Most of the damage in the early game will come from actually upgrading your weapon - very important, do it whenever you can, don't worry about upgrading the "wrong" weapon, there's plenty of upgrading materials with the exception of the high end materials but by the time you get them you'll probably have an idea of what your main weapons should be. At some point you'll even be able to transform your weapon into Raw, Fire or Chaos and those have low - for raw - or no scaling at all - fire or chaos.

Is load affected by only your equipped items, or do I need to offload inventory to the box at bonfires regularly? Any use for garbage stuff like hollow soldier armor?

Yeah I know, but I've never played this before and I doubt I'm that good to just go naked + lvl 1 right off the bat. Upgrading stuff seems to be really important, went from dealing 10 dmg to two-shotting those armored undead in parish after upgrading estoc to +5.

I ran past them and ended up in "The Valley of Drakes" after an elevator ride and got mauled by a dragon, but before that I picked up some sword and a dragon crest shield.

I think I'll run around a bit more to see where I end up...

One of the funnest things about these games is making suicide runs into areas with powerful enemies to grab high quality loot. People claim that Dark Souls series is hard, but it is actually extremely generous in this respect, in that you keep anything you grab (and any shortcuts, etc. you unlock), even if you die.

Whenever I start a new game of Dark Souls 1, I always go with the master key as my gift, and run around the explorable world gathering stuff. You can get a very decent head start just with all the soul items you can collect in the areas that are available to you at the beginning (and that shield you picked up is great).

I found a bunch of stuff but I can't really use any of them, except the shields. The black knight weapons need 20 str and the artorias sword needs

 

[newtmonkey]

I found a bunch of stuff but I can't really use any of them, except the shields. The black knight weapons need 20 str and the artorias sword needs

This is still useful, because it gives you an idea of what stats to spend points on.

Typically, with STR and DEX you just want to boost them to whatever the min requirement is for whatever equipment you want to use (or try out), while continuing to pump points into getting your HP and stamina up. Elemental weapons severely outclass weapons that scale with stats (especially the first time through) and typically have very low stat requirements (there is a killer elemental weapon a few areas into the game, but it will likely take some time until you get there).

The beauty of it is that, in single player, any weapon is workable. Just go with what looks cool or whatever moveset appeals to you. It's really not worth pumping STR/DEX very high unless you plan to play newgame+ or really explore a certain build.

 

[Wunderbar]

Any use for garbage stuff like hollow soldier armor?

Fashion, if you want to roleplay a battered hobo.

 

[Lutte]

Elemental weapons severely outclass weapons that scale with stats

Absolutely not.
Chaos weapons can outclass scaling weapons for a character with very low STR and DEX stats but you need 10 soft humanity on you always which isn't the most newbie friendly of things. Better not lose it too often lest ya need to farm rats.

At 20 STR + 20 DEX a claymore has 418 AR. The Lightning counterpart has 514 but it's split damage which gets halved by two type of defenses. Fire gets 494 and everything else is not even worth mentioning. 20 20 is not that much in terms of stat point to spend.
Remember, 100 AR of difference always makes the elemental worse because of enemies defense. It's only when a boss has a specific elemental weakness like fire against ornstein that you can feel any worth to it.

If you were to play the original Dark Souls unpatched, elemental weapons would be worth it though because they were severely overpowered. Game patches brought them to balance and made them worse if you invest even just a little stat point into offense.

Overall, the chaos upgrade path is just amazing for blazing through the game as an experienced player but the other non standard upgrade paths are not worth looking at.

 

[newtmonkey]

I stand corrected

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, generally speaking upgraded normal weapons will always out damage elemental weapon, except in the extremely rare case you come across an enemy that has high normal defense but weak elemental. Which is pretty rare. I think only the clams in DS1 are applicable.

 

[Parabalus]

Seems really fun and not too punishing so far, killed only 5 real bosses though and kinda cheesed all of them, bit worried how I'll handle one without obvious high ground to abuse.

Is there any reason to hold on to (large) soul of x? Have like 20 of them, guessing I could keep them them for convenience?

 

[Damned Registrations]

If you were to play the original Dark Souls unpatched, elemental weapons would be worth it though because they were severely overpowered. Game patches brought them to balance and made them worse if you invest even just a little stat point into offense.

This is so true. That lightning spear in Sen's fort carried me all the way to the kiln. Pity I didn't know about the blacksmith giant's hammer back then, would have been insane. Even got to use the Demon spear for a bit, too bad it's utter garbage now, looks pretty cool.

 

[Bocian]

As I recall, the humanity phantoms in the Abyss have the highest droprate for humanity in the game.

Baby skeletons is the best way to farm humanity in the late game.

I vastly prefer the humanity ghosts, a few secs from the last DLC bonfire.

I was wrong. This is the way.

 

[Parabalus]

Played a bit more and got up to Anor Londo, still quite fun.

The RPG elements seem to cheapen the game though, dunno. Upgrade a sword and start oneshotting stuff you had to worry about before, not sure how I feel about that. I'm still using a Black Knight Sword which I got from the second area, if I had prior knowledge to pump STR up to 20 first it'd have trivialized everything I did so far .

The dog-with-huge sword boss had me laughing the whole fight, great stuff.

 

[Kitchen Utensil]

Yeah, if you find OP gear too soon, or start grinding to upgrade stuff, the game gets easy quickly. It's a good compromise instead of having difficulty options though imo. The exploration and atmosphere are still there though, so the game has more than the challenge going for it, fortunately.

 

[Monkey Baron]

Played a bit more and got up to Anor Londo, still quite fun.

The RPG elements seem to cheapen the game though, dunno. Upgrade a sword and start oneshotting stuff you had to worry about before, not sure how I feel about that. I'm still using a Black Knight Sword which I got from the second area, if I had prior knowledge to pump STR up to 20 first it'd have trivialized everything I did so far .

The dog-with-huge sword boss had me laughing the whole fight, great stuff.

To be fair, that's because the black knight weapons are insanely OP in NG. They don't scale well and can't be buffed so they fall off once you get to NG+. The BK weapons also have pretty low drop rates (20%) which I suppose is their way of balancing it. I experienced something similar in my first playthrough, I wasn't having many issues with bosses until I got to Anor Londo. So I started experimenting, gave the BKGS a swing and the bosses became trivial since I could break their poise with a few hits. If you're finding it too easy (and therefore not as fun), I suggest that you to switch back to your starting weapon/a random weapon you like upgraded to the highest level you can afford. I recommend picking a normal weapon since you can pursue several upgrade paths and enchant them with magic/resin.

 

[Parabalus]

Played a bit more and got up to Anor Londo, still quite fun.

The RPG elements seem to cheapen the game though, dunno. Upgrade a sword and start oneshotting stuff you had to worry about before, not sure how I feel about that. I'm still using a Black Knight Sword which I got from the second area, if I had prior knowledge to pump STR up to 20 first it'd have trivialized everything I did so far .

The dog-with-huge sword boss had me laughing the whole fight, great stuff.

To be fair, that's because the black knight weapons are insanely OP in NG. They don't scale well and can't be buffed so they fall off once you get to NG+. The BK weapons also have pretty low drop rates (20%) which I suppose is their way of balancing it. I experienced something similar in my first playthrough, I wasn't having many issues with bosses until I got to Anor Londo. So I started experimenting, gave the BKGS a swing and the bosses became trivial since I could break their poise with a few hits. If you're finding it too easy (and therefore not as fun), I suggest that you to switch back to your starting weapon/a random weapon you like upgraded to the highest level you can afford. I recommend picking a normal weapon since you can pursue several upgrade paths and enchant them with magic/resin.

Yeah, I switched back to my trusty Estoc, was really retarded. Any idea when (progression wise) I could use the weapon "safely" in my run? I doubt I'll be doing NG++++++++++++, if I want more I think I'll go to the next game.

edit: just found a Silver knight straight sword and titanite catch pole, which seems to have similar numbers damage wise. Dunno if or .

 

[Parabalus]

Yeah, I switched back to my trusty Estoc, was really retarded. Any idea when (progression wise) I could use the weapon "safely" in my run? I doubt I'll be doing NG++++++++++++, if I want more I think I'll go to the next game.

Life's too short to worry about balance so take whatever's most fun for you and wreck shit up. Besides, after Anor Londo overall quality takes a nose dive so better slaughter everything fast and go for another run in NG+.

BTW,

Spoiler

Did you find the doll?

Damn, I hoped the quality would keep increasing, every area seemed more fun than the last so far.

The one behind the black knight in the Asylum? Ye, but I didn't found a use for it yet. My first instinct was to give it to the bird nest but no dice.

Are the NPC phantoms you can summon essentially cheats? I used one to summon a witch vs the butterfly and she basically soloed him.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, I switched back to my trusty Estoc, was really retarded. Any idea when (progression wise) I could use the weapon "safely" in my run? I doubt I'll be doing NG++++++++++++, if I want more I think I'll go to the next game.

Life's too short to worry about balance so take whatever's most fun for you and wreck shit up. Besides, after Anor Londo overall quality takes a nose dive so better slaughter everything fast and go for another run in NG+.

BTW,

Spoiler

Did you find the doll?

Damn, I hoped the quality would keep increasing, every area seemed more fun than the last so far.

The one behind the black knight in the Asylum? Ye, but I didn't found a use for it yet. My first instinct was to give it to the bird nest but no dice.

Are the NPC phantoms you can summon essentially cheats? I used one to summon a witch vs the butterfly and she basically soloed him.

Spoiler

Try looking at the painting in Anor Londo. Unless you already threw it away, that is

Played a bit more and got up to Anor Londo, still quite fun.

The RPG elements seem to cheapen the game though, dunno. Upgrade a sword and start oneshotting stuff you had to worry about before, not sure how I feel about that. I'm still using a Black Knight Sword which I got from the second area, if I had prior knowledge to pump STR up to 20 first it'd have trivialized everything I did so far .

The dog-with-huge sword boss had me laughing the whole fight, great stuff.

To be fair, that's because the black knight weapons are insanely OP in NG. They don't scale well and can't be buffed so they fall off once you get to NG+. The BK weapons also have pretty low drop rates (20%) which I suppose is their way of balancing it. I experienced something similar in my first playthrough, I wasn't having many issues with bosses until I got to Anor Londo. So I started experimenting, gave the BKGS a swing and the bosses became trivial since I could break their poise with a few hits. If you're finding it too easy (and therefore not as fun), I suggest that you to switch back to your starting weapon/a random weapon you like upgraded to the highest level you can afford. I recommend picking a normal weapon since you can pursue several upgrade paths and enchant them with magic/resin.

Yeah, I switched back to my trusty Estoc, was really retarded. Any idea when (progression wise) I could use the weapon "safely" in my run? I doubt I'll be doing NG++++++++++++, if I want more I think I'll go to the next game.

edit: just found a Silver knight straight sword and titanite catch pole, which seems to have similar numbers damage wise. Dunno if or .

Silver Knight Straight sword is amazing. One of my favorite weapons in the game.
Its not game breaking powerful either, like the Black Knight Weapons.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Shit, I've used Black Knight's Sword through all three Dark Souls games, for NG+ and NG++. Best weapon ever.

~500 AR with 40/40 str dex, not many weapons are better; most have an elemental split or are huge and slow as shit. Only real question is if you want something faster.

 

[Lutte]

Shit, I've used Black Knight's Sword through all three Dark Souls games, for NG+ and NG++. Best weapon ever.

~500 AR with 40/40 str dex, not many weapons are better

You just described the Claymore, and that one can be buffed whether by magic or resins, unlike the unbuffable BKS. One of the best weapons of Dark Souls 1 and available early without relying on RNG shit. DS2 has better GSes than either of these though, and the BKS is a split damage weapon in DS2 which sucks an extraordinary amount of dicks in a way that split damage weapons don't in other souls because the DS2 DLC has upped defenses against anything non-physical to the point where you would have to be masochist to use anything that's not a hard physical hitter.

 

[Ninjerk]

Yeah, I switched back to my trusty Estoc, was really retarded. Any idea when (progression wise) I could use the weapon "safely" in my run? I doubt I'll be doing NG++++++++++++, if I want more I think I'll go to the next game.

Life's too short to worry about balance so take whatever's most fun for you and wreck shit up. Besides, after Anor Londo overall quality takes a nose dive so better slaughter everything fast and go for another run in NG+.

BTW,

Spoiler

Did you find the doll?

Damn, I hoped the quality would keep increasing, every area seemed more fun than the last so far.

The one behind the black knight in the Asylum? Ye, but I didn't found a use for it yet. My first instinct was to give it to the bird nest but no dice.

Are the NPC phantoms you can summon essentially cheats? I used one to summon a witch vs the butterfly and she basically soloed him.

Butterfly is easy even solo.

 

[L'Montes]

Yeah, I switched back to my trusty Estoc, was really retarded. Any idea when (progression wise) I could use the weapon "safely" in my run? I doubt I'll be doing NG++++++++++++, if I want more I think I'll go to the next game.

Life's too short to worry about balance so take whatever's most fun for you and wreck shit up. Besides, after Anor Londo overall quality takes a nose dive so better slaughter everything fast and go for another run in NG+.

BTW,

Spoiler

Did you find the doll?

Damn, I hoped the quality would keep increasing, every area seemed more fun than the last so far.

The one behind the black knight in the Asylum? Ye, but I didn't found a use for it yet. My first instinct was to give it to the bird nest but no dice.

Are the NPC phantoms you can summon essentially cheats? I used one to summon a witch vs the butterfly and she basically soloed him.

Butterfly is easy even solo.

They're not cheats particularly, no. Solaire and Lautrec both tend to die easily in most of the fights they appear in.

That said, Iron Tarkus and Beatrice (in her first fight) are notable for being able to practically solo the fight.

Dark Souls 2 has a similar situation with some of the summons (Jester in the Peak), but in most fights worth mentioning you'll find NPC summons are more of a handicap (boost to boss, die quickly).

 

[Monkey Baron]

Played a bit more and got up to Anor Londo, still quite fun.

The RPG elements seem to cheapen the game though, dunno. Upgrade a sword and start oneshotting stuff you had to worry about before, not sure how I feel about that. I'm still using a Black Knight Sword which I got from the second area, if I had prior knowledge to pump STR up to 20 first it'd have trivialized everything I did so far .

The dog-with-huge sword boss had me laughing the whole fight, great stuff.

To be fair, that's because the black knight weapons are insanely OP in NG. They don't scale well and can't be buffed so they fall off once you get to NG+. The BK weapons also have pretty low drop rates (20%) which I suppose is their way of balancing it. I experienced something similar in my first playthrough, I wasn't having many issues with bosses until I got to Anor Londo. So I started experimenting, gave the BKGS a swing and the bosses became trivial since I could break their poise with a few hits. If you're finding it too easy (and therefore not as fun), I suggest that you to switch back to your starting weapon/a random weapon you like upgraded to the highest level you can afford. I recommend picking a normal weapon since you can pursue several upgrade paths and enchant them with magic/resin.

Yeah, I switched back to my trusty Estoc, was really retarded. Any idea when (progression wise) I could use the weapon "safely" in my run? I doubt I'll be doing NG++++++++++++, if I want more I think I'll go to the next game.

edit: just found a Silver knight straight sword and titanite catch pole, which seems to have similar numbers damage wise. Dunno if or .

I like the Silver Knight weapons, they're fine for NG but they do drop off afterwards. They can only be upgraded to +5 and can't be buffed with magic/resin. The Titanite catch pole has the same issues, unfortunately. If you're planning on going to NG+7 the most optimal weapons are the ones that can be upgraded to +15. Some good weapons I'd consider based on what you've told me are the bastard sword (my personal favorite), the broadsword, the zweihander, the halberd or maybe the pike? You've probably picked up most of these except for the Claymore which is underneath the Hellkite Dragon on the Bridge where you meet Solaire. The bastard sword, broadsword and pike can be bought from Andre for a few thousand souls. There's also these weeb dex weapons that a lot of people really love like the Uchigatana and the Washing pole. I personally can't stand the attack style but they're really effective since they stack bleed. They're also harder to find with one of them being a drop from an NPC if you're okay with doing that. There's also the Great Scythe which is the best PvE weapon according to my hardcore NG+7 friends. It stacks bleed and has the best dex scaling in the game but it might be a bit OP for NG. There's some 'Get OP in DS1 in 30 mins' videos where you just rush to the catacombs to grab it.