From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[No Great Name]

All this weird secretive shit makes Souls games so great and is one of the reason why the latter games weren't as good as the original.

Yeah great secrets such as:

• Resistance is a useless stat
• quest lines make no sense and are only completed by sheer luck

I'll agree with you on these two. The first one is really only obvious to those who have already played the game, and I never would've thought to go back to the first room you encounter Seath the Scaless to conclude Logan's questline (to give an example that isn't the even vaguer Siegmeyer questline).

Every other point though I disagree with simply because they aren't issues to a player who is exploring and actually paying attention. Also don't STR weapons generally have a longer wind-up time to make up for the fact that they hit harder?

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Also don't STR weapons generally have a longer wind-up time to make up for the fact that they hit harder?

Str weapons have longer range, kill most non-boss enemies in 1-hit and if they don't, they break poise in 1-hit, do 3x or more the damage of dex weapons, and really aren't that much slower to swing. There's a reason speed runners and meme pvp builds always use str weapons

 

[The_Mask]

don't STR weapons generally have a longer wind-up time to make up for the fact that they hit harder?

The high STR scaling weapons do, yes. They also tend to have high stamina/weight requirements too - to offset the fact that you gain the bonus souls, the extra poise damage and/or pancake factory.

There are notable exceptions though, so it's not a rule.



Casual examples of this:

The club.
- Low damage, even at +15. (rebuttal: can hit skeletons pretty hard though). R2 misses can be costly.
+ Very high STR scaling. Very fast. Good poise damage. Can break shields on R2.


or


The No-dachi or Washing Pole.
- Mediocre STR scaling, but also has DEX scaling. Light poise damage.
+ Insane speed and reach. Bleed build up. Light weight (for a STR weapon).

 

[The_Mask]

Str weapons have longer range

Since when?

really aren't that much slower to swing

'k

There's a reason speed runners and meme pvp builds always use str weapons

Speed runners speed run at SL 1, in which case they always use the Blacksmith's Giant Hammer, because 90% of the time it does amazing damage.

Also meme PvP builds are memes for a reason - learn how to parry, and they stop being so scary - every swing is telegraphed from the moon.




You shove in a few things that are true in there, just to have a minimal amount of facts covered, but then everything else is smeared in poop.




I suggest leveling up rezistance. <3

 

[Black Angel]

Oh get the fuck out fanboy, imagine being this deluded.

 

[Multidirectional]

quest lines make no sense and are only completed by sheer luck

Arguably only Siegmeyers' and Rhea's (if you want her to live) have that issue. Maybe.

I played through it 5 times and I haven't completed a single quest line. Shit, first two playthroughs I didn't even know there were questlines at all. After I found out they existed in game and looked them up I just decided it was convoluted nonsense and decided not to give a shit. I'll just got through levels killing stuff, enough fun for me.

 

[Black Angel]

I played through it 5 times and I haven't completed a single quest line. Shit, first two playthroughs I didn't even know there were questlines at all. After I found out they existed in game and looked them up I just decided it was convoluted nonsense and decided not to give a shit.

In Dark Souls 1 they're not as convoluted, though. Just by exploring, meeting the NPCs, and exhausting their dialogue options can give you general idea of where they planned to be next. If it isn't called questlines, I'm sure you would be recognizing it as part of what makes the game feels "alive". The only part that's bullshit is that if you want to keep some of the NPCs alive, you absolutely mustn't exhaust all the things they sell, like in case of Big Hat Logan's apprentice (I actually forgot his name) and Rhea (if you managed to prevent Petrus from killing her).

 

[Multidirectional]

If I clear the level and I don't have any other reason to go through it again - I won't. Not gonna follow NPCs around based on their schedule like some cuck faggot. Really don't care about their quests.

 

[The_Mask]

If I clear the level and I don't have any other reason to go through it again - I won't. Not gonna follow NPCs around based on their schedule like some cuck faggot. Really don't care about their quests.

The problem with this way of thinking, albeit it being your call as the player, is that it is in dissonance with the tutorial, and the type of game you're playing - and as such with the creators vision of the game.

You do go back to the Undead Asylum, or are at least heavily alluded that you can, and are rewarded if you do. It is heavily hinted that going back twice through any area you've cleared is both beneficial and rewarding.

Obviously no one is blaming you for not caring and backtracking, and the approach is respected, but at the same time you don't have a strong argument either since thinking in terms of "clearing a level" is obviously not the intended design of the game.

 

[Black Angel]

If I clear the level and I don't have any other reason to go through it again - I won't. Not gonna follow NPCs around based on their schedule like some cuck faggot. Really don't care about their quests.

I'm not saying you should care or whatever, just that in case of Dark Souls 1 the NPCs are littered in places you may or may not be curious to explore the first time you arrive. And when you do, you get to meet them, and then you exhaust their dialogue. You may not care, but the NPCs clearly stated that the first time you meet them after you rescue them or help them, they'll be going back to Firelink Shrine, which functioned as the game's hub for the first half of a playthrough.
Again, you may not care, but exhausting their dialogue when you meet them in Firelink Shrine will tell you where they go next, which may or may not be also your next destination.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

In Dark Souls 1 they're not as convoluted, though. Just by exploring, meeting the NPCs, and exhausting their dialogue options can give you general idea of where they planned to be next. If it isn't called questlines, I'm sure you would be recognizing it as part of what makes the game feels "alive".

Go to utube and watch some stupid lore videos and cry about sad story like little baby girl

I play games to kill demons not cry like girl hA ahah

 

[Black Angel]

Go to utube and watch some stupid lore videos and cry about sad story like little baby girl

I play games to kill demons not cry like girl hA ahah

Still better than "radiant AI"
Also,

 

[Multidirectional]

Obviously no one is blaming you for not caring and backtracking, and the approach is respected, but at the same time you don't have a strong argument either since thinking in terms of "clearing a level" is obviously not the intended design of the game.

If my way of playing is a lot less tedious than "intended design" then fuck that design up the ass. Sure, I've gone back to Undead Asylum and went through steps to reach the expansion area but that's it. Not gonna run around all over the map chasing these idiot NPCs.

 

[Perkel]

but generally skip investing in rezistance.

Resistance isn't bad stat. Just people know DS like their own fingers and they don't need much defense.
they know where all items are so you don't need to invest into it, they know where the ring allowing you to run through mud is so you don't need to get poison res even. Though there is issue with vitality scaling which makes resistance worse stat, because you can just buff vitality and it will give you much better result than resistance scaling.

Playing right now with overhaul mod and vitality does not scale like in vanilla anymore and on 15-16vit you don't even brake 600hp.

It's just the size of the player base. When you have hundreds of thousands of players playing the game, secrets are a lot easier to figure out. Daughters of Ash is really niche in comparison.

True. I am having fine time with this overhaul mod.
It is much better version of what from did with DS2 --> DS2 sotfs.
There are some things i disagree with like stupid shield at the beggining i spoke earlier but overall it nicely makes DS new.

 

[Black Angel]

If my way of playing is a lot less tedious than "intended design" then fuck that design up the ass. Sure, I've gone back to Undead Asylum and went through steps to reach the expansion area but that's it. Not gonna run around all over the map chasing these idiot NPCs.

You're saying this as if they put the NPCs in a corner 1000 miles away from your objectives. That might be the case with the sequels, but, again, in case of Dark Souls 1, they're only put like 3-4 steps away from the main paths during your first possible encounter with them (Laurentius is trapped in a barrel in a room opposite of where you're supposed to go in The Depths, Griggs is locked behind a door in a house just near the stairs down to Lower Undead Burg, Sieglinde is trapped inside a Crystal Golem that's well in the view of the ladder from Duke's Archives, etc etc). Thanks to no map, no markers, and no journals, you're hard pressed to explore every nooks and cranny of the world, and thus more likely to encounter these NPCs.
If you rescue them, they'll straight up tells you they're going to Firelink Shrine, and chance are you're definitely going there and (if you cared) talk to them when you don't have Lordvessel. If you care enough to exhaust their dialogue, they'll straight up tells you where they planned to go next, which may or may not be your next destination. But even if you don't care about their storylines, thanks to no map-markers-journals, the only way to have even slightest idea of where to go next is by talking to NPCs.

I don't deny that many of these NPCs storylines are convoluted, especially the ones that go hollow in the middle of nowhere just because you exhausted their inventory. But Dark Souls 1 did it in more subtle ways, often when it's time for NPCs to move on, you'll just stumble upon them as you progress through the next area (like with Siegmeyer and Solaire in Anor Londo).

 

[Elwro]

I always thought the Onion Knight and Sieglinde quest was just a bonus for those who like random exploring of places you already know.

Almost all others are kinda logical. And if you exhaust your purpose you go hollow, duh, that's true for everything

Still, there's this moment where the pyro trainer arrives at the swamp which I was never able to figure out. Is there some justification for you going back there?

 

[Black Angel]

Still, there's this moment where the pyro trainer arrives at the swamp which I was never able to figure out. Is there some justification for you going back there?

Laurentius will go to the swamp if you tell him where did you get a Chaos Pyromancy spell or just plainly powerful Pyromancy spell from Quelana. Iirc, it's possible to get a Chaos Pyromancy spell pretty early by joining Chaos covenant and offer couple of humanities, or 'see' Quelana in front of the entrance to Quelaag's lair once you get +10 Pyromancy or something very early in the game and get a high-tier Pyromancy spell. At this point, you may or may not want to explore the Great Hollow, so chance are you might catch a glimpse of hollowed Laurentius just around the corner at the swamp.

 

[Elwro]

Thanks. I misspoke. I realise that I meant that people can probably completely miss Quelana because there is little incentive to return to the area with the trolls...

 

[Average Manatee]

but generally skip investing in rezistance.

Resistance isn't bad stat. Just people know DS like their own fingers and they don't need much defense.
they know where all items are so you don't need to invest into it, they know where the ring allowing you to run through mud is so you don't need to get poison res even. Though there is issue with vitality scaling which makes resistance worse stat, because you can just buff vitality and it will give you much better result than resistance scaling.

The problem with resistance is that level and humanity stack to increase your defense and reach the soft cap on their own. It's like if every stat provided .5 strength as a side effect, obviously you wouldn't level strength then. If resistance had its own soft cap it would be a much better deal.

This is the kind of thing that should have been trivially obvious to fix for the Remasterd edition. It's a real pity that Fromsoft took such a conservative stance towards it. Even if they didn't want to invest time in remaking Lost Izalith (or thought doing so would be akin to messing with a classic game), 95% of DS1 players could probably agree on a bunch of basic mechanics tweaks like this.

 

[The_Mask]

This is the kind of thing that should have been trivially obvious to fix for the Remasterd edition. It's a real pity that Fromsoft took such a conservative stance towards it.

I think it was all Namco's say in this, since they are the publisher. I don't think From Soft had much to say about it. But I am not up to date on everything, so if From Soft/Miyazaki had a say in this, then it's pretty sad.

95% of DS1 players could probably agree on a bunch of basic mechanics tweaks like this.

From what I learned about DS players in general is that 95% of the time they don't agree on the same thing, and 5% is that DS is one of the best games they've ever played, but sure... fabulously optimistic! ^__^

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Dark Souls Bosses in a nutshell:

 

[praetor]

dude... there was really no need to bump all 3 DS threads with the exact same picture

 

[DJOGamer PT]

:D

 

[glass blackbird]

Give baldness and chronic penis shrinkage to everyone responsible for the Remaster.

EDIT: Also to everyone who bought that scammy PoS.

I eventually broke and bought it for ten bucks because the PVP networking in the original port has never worked with my ISP. It's nice to actually fucking see phantoms around but it's still a huge scam from a bunch of bitches

 

[mogwaimon]

So like, anyone try the item/enemy randomizers? Just curious for the Codex opinion. I did a run on it earlier this week, motivated by a streamer I saw on Youtube playing it, and I think in some aspects it was pretty fun, like getting Gwyn on the Moonlight Butterfly bridge, Artorias in place of Manus, or Fire Sage/Iron Giant instead of O&S. Though that last one was nuts because if the giant died first they'd turn into Kalameet which would instakill you with fire breath spam, but if the sage died first it'd be regular Ornstein. Plus getting bosses as regular enemy spawns introduces some new challenges as well. On the other hand, it's certainly no substitute for the cunning level design that DS is known for, and for the few cool fights I had, I ended up having stupid shit like 3 different Priscillas in place of Bell Gargoyle, Quelaag, and real Fire Sage, or more egregious, Capra Demon in place of Gwyn, so the last fight took like two seconds. The game also devolves into checking off areas just to find items, I ended up skipping Depths, New Londo, lower Undead Burg, and Tomb of Giants entirely because the keys I needed never ended up being found in the areas I could access, while the Lordvessel ended up on a random corpse in Blighttown and the 4 Lord Souls were split between...random Artorias spawn in Valley of Drakes, the aforementioned Gwyn fight, random corpse in Painted World, and random corpse in...i think Duke's Archives.

I've noticed Daughters of Ash is getting a lot of good press lately so I might try that soon just for something to do.