From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[Blaine]

I've played the entire game hollow up until Sen's Fortress—I saw no point in restoring my humanity, although I'm sure I've missed some NPC phantom invasions—until it became truly opportune to kindle the bonfire at Andre.

Now I knew that what would happen was that I'd be doing very well in Sen's, not dying when one would expect a novice to die, and possibly making it all the way through just as I almost did in Blighttown until I had a little mishap on the water wheel... but then I'd be invaded, because of course I'd be invaded. Why not invade someone in one of the most notorious and treacherous areas in the game? At that stage, snakemen are incredibly strong foes even if you've done a bit of grinding. I'll probably be invading people there too.

And that's exactly what happened. See, this is the real downside of playing a Sorcerer: Even if someone is so bad at PvP that you can somehow manage to kill him with sorcery, it's still incredibly awkward to use in PvP and pretty much makes you feel like an idiot. Now, if you have an ally or two, then you might be in business.

Anyway, I died, so now I can go back through Sen's in peace. I'm just glad this game is still active enough to have human invasions.

 

[The_Mask]

I'm just glad this game is still active enough to have human invasions.

If you're playing PTDE, you got EXTREMELY lucky. Remaster still has plenty of people jestering though. Don't worry. Especially Anor Londo.

 

[Blaine]

I opted for the remaster once I'd made absolutely sure that FromSoft hadn't fucked with the mechanics or balance in any meaningful way. It appears they didn't, and even exploits (like Pied Pipering the forest guardians off the cliff) weren't tampered with.

In retrospect, I probably didn't discover that farming method entirely on my own. The large quantity of soapstone signs, blood stains, and such like at the edge no doubt played a role.

 

[Elwro]

Sorcerers have it easy in Sen's, in a sense , since they can easily kill the snakemage up next to the exit which can infuriate melee types...

 

[Blaine]

Sorcerers have it easy in Sen's, in a sense , since they can easily kill the snakemage up next to the exit which can infuriate melee types...

Even though I'm a Sorcerer and my INT is 30, the lack of useful lock-on range where snakemages are positioned and the speed of the melee snakemen means that I'm typically still resorting to the Drake Sword. Not to worry though, I saved lots of soft humanity, farmed drakes (sorcery helped immensely here), and upgraded the Drake Sword to +4. Probably I should have modified something else to scale with INT instead, but I'm waiting to 1.) decide on my preferred weapon, and 2.) get that one ring that boosts Item Find before I worry about an INT-scaling weapon. I suppose I could try relying on Magic Weapon, but it lasts 60/72 seconds, and encourages risky behavior to get the most out of each cast.

Drake Sword still isn't great by the time you reach Sen's even when upgraded to 280 damage, but it's adequate.

To be entirely honest, though, I'm starting to regret going Sorcerer. It often seems that sorcery trivializes some boss fights and strong enemies, while being nearly useless not only in PvP but also in many tight encounters—an INT-scaling weapon is a great help, but a lack of actual STR and/or DEX substantially reduces your choice of weapons to actually use.

Anyway, I left Sen's to go farm the forest guardians for a while, mainly to do a "supermarket sweep" and buy out various trainers before I make some story-related decision that causes them to vanish or go hollow or whatever.

 

[The_Mask]

To be entirely honest, though, I'm starting to regret going Sorcerer. It often seems that sorcery trivializes some boss fights and strong enemies, while being nearly useless not only in PvP but also in many tight encounters—an INT-scaling weapon is a great help, but a lack of actual STR and/or DEX substantially reduces your choice of weapons to actually use.

Tee-hee... don't be that quick to judge, my friend. You are actually lining up to wield my favourite weapon in the game: Velka's Rapier. :D

In fact, you can get it before O&S/The Silver Knights of Anor Londo, if you play your cards right.

 

[Blaine]

Well, yes and no. My STR is 16 (for the Drake Sword and knight shields), DEX is 12 (to enable use of bows), and there are so many other demands on my stats. I'm on track to use the Moonlight Greatsword (eventually) with no further stat increases.

That having been said, I do like versatility, and having a DEX of 16 wouldn't be too much of a stretch. It would open up the use of a few other desirable weapons as well. Realistically, having ~10 less INT at any given time due to some versatility in basic stats isn't going to make or break a boss fight, either.

 

[The_Mask]

I'm on track to use the Moonlight Greatsword (eventually) with no further stat increases.

MGS is heavy. And besides... you got plenty of magics. You don't need it.

 

[Blaine]

MGS is heavy. And besides... you got plenty of magics. You don't need it.

Don't I know it. In general, I try to stay as light as possible, although sometimes I'll suffer with medium rolls.

Fat rolls are intolerable.

 

[Silverfish]

Well, yes and no. My STR is 16 (for the Drake Sword and knight shields), DEX is 12 (to enable use of bows),

With those stats, just buy two reinforced clubs, upgrade one with fire and the other with lightning, and crush everything in your path.

 

[Black Angel]

My STR is 16 (for the Drake Sword and knight shields), DEX is 12 (to enable use of bows),

Seems like you're eligible to POWER UP THE BASS CANNON

 

[Gentle Player]

The worst thing about it, in my view, is the absurd abundance of bonfires and fast travel from the beginning of the game

they really should have just stuck to the demon souls formula.

Since the Souls games have borrowed much from King's Field (including the refillable flasks idea), they should also have adapted in some way the system used in King's Field IV, which in my view is the best fast travel system in any game I have played. It requires thought on the player's part since he must choose where to place his limited Guide Stones; it forces the developers to design a carefully constructed inter-linked world with meaningful unlockable shortcuts; and it still means players are put into situations where they've ventured deep into unknown territory and are running low on resources, far away from a healing fountain or blacksmith (more effective than in Dark Souls 1 since there is no Homeward Bone equivalent - the player must find a Ritual Circle to warp). It also rewards players for careful exploration and secret finding by giving them more fast travel options, since many of the necessary Wands and Stones are well hidden.

There's no reason that such a system couldn't easily be transferred to a Souls style game. Instead we get mindless warp anywhere, which kills any sense of pacing and tension, and is the reason post DS1 games are inferior.

 

[Old Hans]

The worst thing about it, in my view, is the absurd abundance of bonfires and fast travel from the beginning of the game

they really should have just stuck to the demon souls formula.

Since the Souls games have borrowed much from King's Field (including the refillable flasks idea), they should also have adapted in some way the system used in King's Field IV, which in my view is the best fast travel system in any game I have played. It requires thought on the player's part since he must choose where to place his limited Guide Stones; it forces the developers to design a carefully constructed inter-linked world with meaningful unlockable shortcuts; and it still means players are put into situations where they've ventured deep into unknown territory and are running low on resources, far away from a healing fountain or blacksmith (more effective than in Dark Souls 1 since there is no Homeward Bone equivalent - the player must find a Ritual Circle to warp). It also rewards players for careful exploration and secret finding by giving them more fast travel options, since many of the necessary Wands and Stones are well hidden.

There's no reason that such a system couldn't easily be transferred to a Souls style game. Instead we get mindless warp anywhere, which kills any sense of pacing and tension, and is the reason post DS1 games are inferior.

thats why I think demon souls was the best out of them all. it still had one foot in Kings Field. KF IV one of my favorites!

 

[Gastrick]

I found Sen's fortress to be one of the easiest levels in the game. Snake guys are quick to kill with the +8 axe, and timing the large swinging axes is easy if you are used to those kinds of levels. Got to the the roof on my second try. I did accidentally go into the giant skeleton level first, so there is that.

 

[Ramnozack]

Sorcerers have it easy in Sen's, in a sense , since they can easily kill the snakemage up next to the exit which can infuriate melee types...

To be entirely honest, though, I'm starting to regret going Sorcerer. It often seems that sorcery trivializes some boss fights and strong enemies, while being nearly useless not only in PvP but also in many tight encounters—an INT-scaling weapon is a great help, but a lack of actual STR and/or DEX substantially reduces your choice of weapons to actually use.

Fuck you mean sorcery is useless in pvp. Nigga, just use dark bead and pursuers, the fuck are you doing?

 

[Blaine]

Fuck you mean sorcery is useless in pvp. Nigga, just use dark bead and pursuers, the fuck are you doing?

What I'm doing is playing through the game normally with a fresh character; I'm currently finishing up Painted World of Ariamis. "Just use some very late-game spells!" is fantastic advice, I'm sure, but for now sorcery is a "please skewer me" button.

Speaking of PvP, though, I was invaded just now. I happened to be standing near the shadow dragon bridge when he appeared, and since I came through the shortcut and hadn't cleared the level of enemies, I just waited motionlessly at the end of it. I will always fight, but preferably with ledges nearby and no enemies to assist the invader.

After searching the level for a good five minutes, he finally came to check the bridge, so we waved and beckoned, and I got a few thrusts in on him (with an upgraded lightning spear, because as I've said, sorcery is useless at the moment against anyone with two brain cells to rub together) before he baited me into a well-timed parry and one-shot me from full HP.

Fact is, when you are a largely PvE player using a PvE build, you are most probably going to lose, especially against PvP-specific builds run by dedicated PvPers. It's all in good fun, though, and certainly I always try to win. When I was playing DS3 co-op, we actually won fairly often, but solo is tough.

 

[Ramnozack]

Fuck you mean sorcery is useless in pvp. Nigga, just use dark bead and pursuers, the fuck are you doing?

What I'm doing is playing through the game normally with a fresh character; I'm currently finishing up Painted World of Ariamis. "Just use some very late-game spells!" is fantastic advice, I'm sure, but for now sorcery is a "please skewer me" button.

Speaking of PvP, though, I was invaded just now. I happened to be standing near the shadow dragon bridge when he appeared, and since I came through the shortcut and hadn't cleared the level of enemies, I just waited motionlessly at the end of it. I will always fight, but preferably with ledges nearby and no enemies to assist the invader.

After searching the level for a good five minutes, he finally came to check the bridge, so we waved and beckoned, and I got a few thrusts in on him (with an upgraded lightning spear, because as I've said, sorcery is useless at the moment against anyone with two brain cells to rub together) before he baited me into a well-timed parry and one-shot me from full HP.

Fact is, when you are a largely PvE player using a PvE build, you are most probably going to lose, especially against PvP-specific builds run by dedicated PvPers. It's all in good fun, though, and certainly I always try to win. When I was playing DS3 co-op, we actually won fairly often, but solo is tough.

All you need is the lordvessel to get dark bead and pursuers (need to kill last dlc boss for pursuers though.), since you are in painted world, you are obviously already in Anor Londo and may already have the lord vessel. If not, you are really close to it. It really isn't that late game of a spell.

In terms of int-based weapons, if you want to use spears as a sorcerer, use the butterfly horn. Really good int-based spear, good range, pure magic damage, only need 12 str to use.

 

[Blaine]

To obtain the first one, you've got to be about halfway through the game; to get them both, you've got to be approximately 2/3 of the way through the game, reckoning by the number of distinct places (with intro titles).

We can quibble over whether "past the midway point of the game" is considered "late" or not, but it sure as shit ain't early. Until then, a solo Sorcerer is generally going to get molested hard in PvP.

 

[Blaine]

Ah, Ornstein and Smough... we meet again at last. Actually, we'll meet again tomorrow; I ain't doing this shit at the end of the day.

Even the boss run is a pain in the ass. The soapstones reminded me of the stair rail jump shortcut, and I kindled Solaire's bonfire—but a miss means getting your ass skewered.

I expect to be invaded and killed very soon for the crime of existing while human, and I intend to be encamped on the rafters above the Painted World with a variety of projectiles to hand when it happens. It occurs to me that you can be a huge piece of shit and evade an invader indefinitely here, because the fall to the ground level isn't survivable except at limited points, and you can always simply alternate ladders via the ground floor. However, indefinite fleeing would also waste my time.

(Tactics dictate that while experienced PvPers will most likely kill me, they're much more liable to make mistakes when surrounded by fatal ledges and unassisted by NPCs.)

I am far, far better at this game than I was in 2011, although to be fair, I remember enough of it and have enough Souls experience by now that that's to be expected.

 

[Caim]

If I do the Ornstein & Smough run I instead take the bonfire outside of Gwyndolyn's bonfire. Crank up the tower, then run past the two sentinels and you're at the fog wall.

 

[Blaine]

If I do the Ornstein & Smough run I instead take the bonfire outside of Gwyndolyn's bonfire. Crank up the tower, then run past the two sentinels and you're at the fog wall.

With the running jump, you can make it to the fog door in half the time or better—and the unfortunate fact of the matter is that I'm probably going to make good use of the time savings.

 

[Blaine]

So uh, yeah... I didn't get invaded; I killed Lautrec and his minions handily; I summoned Solaire (likely the one and only time I'll summon a phantom); and I beat Ornstein and Smough on the first try.

I'd say this victory is solidly owed to the Ring of Favor and Protection, upgraded Silver Knight Shield, Soul Spear, Homing Soulmass, and Solaire. Solaire actually survived! I killed Smough first.

Some disappointments were had, though. I upgraded both my Longbow and Heavy Crossbow to Magic +5, and then realized that the damage is rubbish unless magic ammunition is used. It's not that that doesn't make sense in a way, but I didn't expect the split damage to be entirely zeroed without the arrow "able to carry" it. Ah, well.

Also, sorinmask, Velka's Rapier is now my favorite weapon as well. I rarely wear the silver knight armor since it gives me a case of chubby rolls, but it's good fashion Souls.

 

[The_Mask]

I don't think I've ever tried an archer based on INT.

In any case, the one time I went with a bow, was with the Dark Moon Bow. And it felt like the unofficial hard mode because every shot cost souls. Especially if you're going with the Moonlight Arrows.

Spoiler

Also because Artorias was a bitch to stun out of his buffing.

 

[Blaine]

I don't think I've ever tried an archer based on INT.

In any case, the one time I went with a bow, was with the Dark Moon Bow. And it felt like the unofficial hard mode because every shot cost souls. Especially if you're going with the Moonlight Arrows.

Spoiler

Also because Artorias was a bitch to stun out of his buffing.

I generally only use them for opportunistic sniping and pulling, but sometimes I might like them to deal good damage also. Apparently "good damage" in this game tops out at around 100 for bows. To be fair, I already knew that archery comes pre-nerfed in Souls, and hasn't ever really been viable as a primary playstyle (unlike, say, sorcery or miracles).

 

[Black Angel]

I upgraded both my Longbow and Heavy Crossbow to Magic +5, and then realized that the damage is rubbish unless magic ammunition is used. It's not that that doesn't make sense in a way, but I didn't expect the split damage to be entirely zeroed without the arrow "able to carry" it. Ah, well.

From what I know, weapons modified to Lightning, Fire, and Magic has always been quite shit in Dark Souls 1, due to split damage. So it's always better to get a fully upgraded Normal weapons, and buff it with resins, spells like (Great) Magic Weapon, or miracles like Sunlight Blade. Chaos modification seemed to fare better, considering the BASS CANNON, with Divine weapons serving as an easy mode for the Catacombs. Not sure if the Occult mod is worth it.

Weapon modifications seemed to be much better in the sequels, though.