From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[Silverfish]

Hey, that's not fair. At least the hollow guardsmen have different weapons and one's even smart enough to block.

 

[Blaine]

Silverfish, you're a bit of an odd duck. From your statements over the past couple of pages, it seems clear that you value not only sheer difficulty in a boss fight, but also (or maybe even more importantly) variety and interesting, engaging mechanics and gimmicks.

Monster Hunter offers that in SPADES. One can question their sheer difficulty, but the variety of mechanics accompanying large monsters is often huge. This includes all sorts of things from luring and provoking them in certain ways, severing or smashing certain parts of their anatomy for various specific purposes, leading them to advantageous terrain (for you) and avoiding the reverse, stunning or tranquilizing them by hitting weak spots or doing certain things, outmaneuvering them based on their mode(s) of perambulation....

To sum up, that's a bit weird of you.

 

[Black Angel]

So just because both have *ONE* same move (jumping downward slash), they are same bosses?

 

[NJClaw]

So just because both have *ONE* same move (jumping downward slash), they are same bosses?

They are both software.

There are only 3 types of bosses in Dark Souls: software-based bosses, FPS drops, and the wireless controller dying on you.

 

[Silverfish]

So just because both have *ONE* same move (jumping downward slash), they are same bosses?

I didn't say they were the same, I said Artorias is significantly worse.

Silverfish, you're a bit of an odd duck.

It's not easy being a Souls fan with taste, but I manage.

From your statements over the past couple of pages, it seems clear that you value not only sheer difficulty in a boss fight, but also (or maybe even more importantly) variety and interesting, engaging mechanics and gimmicks.

Monster Hunter offers that in SPADES. One can question their sheer difficulty, but the variety of mechanics accompanying large monsters is often huge. This includes all sorts of things from luring and provoking them in certain ways, severing or smashing certain parts of their anatomy for various specific purposes, leading them to advantageous terrain (for you) and avoiding the reverse, stunning or tranquilizing them by hitting weak spots or doing certain things, outmaneuvering them based on their mode(s) of perambulation....

I don't hate Monster Hunter or anything, I just find it repetitive. Not the material grinding or resource gathering, mind you, but the actual monsters themselves. Just a page or two back in this thread, you knocked the Firesage boss, (accurately) calling him a clone of the stray demon. The thing is, DS only has three asylum demons. In MH World, after Pukei (two mandatory fights), Rathian, Rathalos, Pink Rathian and Azure Rathalos and their arena variants, I never needed to see the generic "dragon" moveset ever again.

I would agree with your thing about fighting on varying terrain (I did praise Bed of Chaos for its environmental hazards after all), but MH's answers to those concerns are usually preventatives rather than forcing you to adjust tactics. Is the area too hot? Use the cold drink. Deadly poison? This armor made from beetles negates it. In the devs' defense, I do like that they nerfed flashbugs so you can't keep flying enemies locked down forever, but that hardly fixes the rest. So MH isn't terrible, but it's about as bland as it gets. At least World has the Handler.

 

[Blaine]

In MH World, after Pukei (two mandatory fights), Rathian, Rathalos, Pink Rathian and Azure Rathalos and their arena variants, I never needed to see the generic "dragon" moveset ever again.

Thank God the Souls franchise doesn't suffer from this.

I would agree with your thing about fighting on varying terrain (I did praise Bed of Chaos for its environmental hazards after all), but MH's answers to those concerns are usually preventatives rather than forcing you to adjust tactics. Is the area too hot? Use the cold drink. Deadly poison? This armor made from beetles negates it.

Thank God the Souls franchise doesn't suffer from this, either, except for the orange charred ring, the bite rings, poison resist gear and moss clumps, curse resist gear, transient curse, rusted iron ring, and other preventatives, curatives, and wearable resistance gear.

 

[Black Angel]

I didn't say they were the same, I said Artorias is significantly worse.

It's not easy being a Souls fan with taste, but I manage.

 

[Silverfish]

Thank God the Souls franchise doesn't suffer from this.

Of course it does, I even dropped an example that you cropped out of the quote, but not to the same extant as MH.

Thank God the Souls franchise doesn't suffer from this, either, except for the orange charred ring, the bite rings, poison resist gear and moss clumps, curse resist gear, transient curse, rusted iron ring, and other preventatives, curatives, and wearable resistance gear.

As I already said (beginning to notice a pattern here), the issue is that in MH preventatives are almost always the answer, rather than any forced adjustment on the player's part. MH's "strategy" against something like the Bed of Chaos wouldn't be "be careful and take in your surroundings", it would be "go back to town and craft the 'don't fall down the pits' potion".

 

[Shrimp]

It would appear that online play has been temporarily disabled across the different Souls games, most likely in response to the recent discovery of an (alleged) RCE exploit that was found in DS3.

 

[Blaine]

Thank God, now I can continue through DS2 with somewhat more souls than I otherwise would still have.

Yes, I've transitioned over to DS2 (which, as I mentioned earlier, I finished in 2017-2018, sans one DLC). I'm not sure if I'll continue, because the flaws in DS2 have become much more glaring fresh out of DS1. Also, my memories of the game resurface strongly as I play—to the point that I've fallen right back into the cadence of fighting iron giants and Heide knights, and boy does the Tower of Flame highlight some of DS2's problems. Heide's is essentially a dense, straighforward slog down a narrow corridor with treasure nooks off to the side, and the series' premiere cheesable boss at the end.

Furthermore, the timing required to pull off guard breaks and leap attacks (on a PS3 controller, no less) is utterly absurd in its strictness, far in excess of DS1. No one alive is capable of 100% success performing them; the very best might pull off 9/10. I can pull off 8/10, but that isn't enough, since one failure can lead to being countered and riposted. I strongly believe the increased framerate cap is to blame, just as it is for the double loss of equipment durability. I may have to resort to a keyboard macro, and just quickly reach away from controller... hell, I might break out my flight sim foot pedals.

We'll see, though, whether or not the game captures my fancy enough to continue with it.

 

[Silverfish]

Heide's is essentially a dense, straighforward slog down a narrow corridor with treasure nooks off to the side, and the series' premiere cheesable boss at the end.

I look forward to our two-page discussion wherein I defend Dragonrider as a great boss fight.

 

[Rafidur]

>Dragonrider
>Dude in armor, no dragon involved

Good old B-Team.

 

[NJClaw]

Heide's is essentially a dense, straighforward slog down a narrow corridor with treasure nooks off to the side, and the series' premiere cheesable boss at the end.

I look forward to our two-page discussion wherein I defend Dragonrider as a great boss fight.

Dragonrider is barely worthy of being a regular enemy, let alone an actual boss. He has exactly zero redeeming qualities: uninspired design, uninteresting moveset, and absolutely nothing memorable about the encounter. He also looks overweight.

 

[Morenatsu.]

I don't know what's going on in this thread but Artorias was super duper fun time. Dodging through his sword as he comes spinning and flipping by me is the definition of cool gameplay. ‘bro a cool boss is when you can instantly kill him with a funny gimmick’ wow, a typical codexer.

 

[Caim]

>Dragonrider
>Dude in armor, no dragon involved

Good old B-Team.

>Dragonslayer
>there's a dragon right outside his boss arena

Dragonrider is barely worthy of being a regular enemy, let alone an actual boss. He has exactly zero redeeming qualities: uninspired design, uninteresting moveset, and absolutely nothing memorable about the encounter. He also looks overweight.

Most memorable thing about the Dragonrider is that you can make him fall off his platform for the fastest boss kill in the game.

 

[Blaine]

>Dragonrider
>refuses to ride the dragon
>Dragonslayer
>refuses to slay the dragon
>dragon
>refuses to burn and pillage
>all three sit around doing nothing

This, however, makes perfect sense if one assumes that all three are members of the US Congress.

 

[The_Mask]

You bitches need to move this talk to the DS 2 threads. Unless you're willing to compare to DS 1 and admit DS 1 is better. :D

 

[Talby]

My first O&S kill using a no shield character.

 

[Silverfish]

You bitches need to move this talk to the DS 2 threads. Unless you're willing to compare to DS 1 and admit DS 1 is better. :D

Can't wait to imitate every youtube video from 2014-Present.

 

[Ramnozack]

I beat O&S first try on my sorcerer build, was this fight supposed to be hard?

 

[Silverfish]

German Spy's still got the best O&S run.

 

[Blaine]

Unless you're willing to compare to DS 1 and admit DS 1 is better. :D

It goes without saying that DS1 is better.

What almost everyone can agree on:

• the overall vision and conception of DS1's game world is better and more coherent (this includes "I can see the next area!")
• the level design, both in "feel" and practically and technically speaking, is superior
  
• no fast travel until the last 1/3 of DS1 (it is no mere convenience, and has a fundamental effect on the above two items)
• PvE feels like an ambush simulator ~90% of the time; the ambuscades actually lose their edge due to their ubiquity
• many bosses, but their quality and variety are overall subpar (that's not to say there aren't any good ones, e.g. Fume Knight)
• a literal and actual i-frames stat lmao

My personal gripes:

• There are way too many fragrant branch doors and Pharros contraptions, Jesus Christ they're fucking everywhere, please stop.
• The hollowing system is absolutely retarded and ass-backwards. This isn't a complaint. Currently I have 20 effigies saved at the Lost Sinner's fog door, haven't farmed for any, and haven't yet even worn the Ring of Binding.
  
• The cat ring is the most useless piece of shit known to mankind. "Pay souls and put on ring to not die during these falling segments," fucking dumb.
• As mentioned before, the timing for leap attacks and guard breaks is far too exacting. I'm closing in on a 90% success rate, but DS1 was great without this obnoxious shit—and anyone can macro them for PvP on PC.

Considering the emphasis I place on world-building and level design, it goes without saying that even that alone would elevate DS1 to the top in my estimation. DS3's total failure in this regard is also the major reason I hate that game.

I do like the fact that in DS2, you can reallocate your points and even swap genders. You can't alter your soul memory, so all this does is help newbies experiment and fix mistakes whilst having little to no effect on PvP twinks. Nothing of note is affected PvE-wise except replayability, which isn't high to begin with.

Some people say the combat system is generally excellent and well balanced, and that the PvP is the best and also most balanced in the series. I will say that DS2's character movement seems more fluid than DS1's, and that there's a bit more variety in the form of powerstances and meaningful dual-wielding.

 

[Black Angel]

I will say that DS2's character movement seems more fluid than DS1's,

Not really

Start at 0:07:44 for points related to Movement, unless you don't mean only the walking-running-sprinting movement.

 

[Silverfish]

a literal and actual i-frames stat lmao

Adaptability was one of DS2's best changes. Worried about you, bro.

 

[Blaine]

Adaptability was one of DS2's best changes. Worried about you, bro.

The good attribute change that DS2 introduced was divorcing +stamina from +equipment load. Both are very important and primary statistics, so arguably paying into one attribute shouldn't increase both.

With ADP, you can pay a few points to make the i-frames not be shit. You can dump points into it to achieve i-frames roughly double those of DS1's fast roll (and fast roll is easier to maintain under load in DS2), meaning that ADP and AGL are for casuls.